jsslatic Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Where do I 'profess' to hate the capitalist system? And even if I did, like anybody else living under it, would it mean that I don't want to see my football club succeed in whatever circumstances fate has provided for us? There are, for instance doubtless plenty of City fans who think the amount of wealth their owners have is obscene but also know their club would have been foolish to turn down their bid for ownership. No club in the world would have done. You usually have to play by the rules set by others. In any case, all I was highlighting was how nothing illustrates more the ceaseless decline in the stature of this club than the widespread perception of our inability to compete with the likes of Doncaster, Peterborough and MK Dons. Hold on, this club is, taking the blinkers off, really a lower league club in terms of finance and history etc. Some fans seem to have delusions of grandeur resulting from a fairly recent period of high flying, in which the club punched above its weight. Wimbledon (who MK were, in terms of seizing their league position) and Peterborough are similar. When we were in the Premiership, we were ranked as a higher club than many bigger teams who were plying their trade in a lower division. Would their fans have been right to single us out...and say how depressing it is that they were seen as inferior to such a small-time club, with a tradition of low gates and lower league football? No. Football would lose its attraction if the so called smaller clubs were unable to rise above the bigger ones. If Leeds, Leicester, Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday and Manchester City couldn't fall into the nether regions of the league. If Hull couldn't make it to the Premier League. If Oldham couldn't make it to the Premiership...fight with the big boys and stay up. I'd say at the moment, we are playing at about our level in terms of where you'd expect a club of our stature to be. That doesn't mean we should quit and not look up...of course we should. But so should all other clubs. And to those that are 'punching above their weight'...well good luck to them...and they shouldn't be used as examples of how our club is falling away, but as examples of where we could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) Corporal Jones has his/her 1/2 posts which were more than worthwhile the first 1/2 times posted. To regular board readers the constant reiterations are not worthwhile, they are just a sign of his continued frustration. Corp, may I suggest you consider a 'signature'? They are not too massive, they have too much disposable 'income'. If you think the club isn't influenced by this board you are being naive. However, I wish you were right!! Sorry, I was forgetting that the rules of this forum state that certain points can only be made once. Except for all varieties of blinkered happy clappery, of course, which allows for the same stuff to be repeated ad infinitum. So if the club is, as you claim, influenced by this board, what reaction is 'the club' going to give a bit of flippancy about the relatively 'massive' stature of the mighty Doncaster Rovers? Edited February 2, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 When we were in the Premiership, we were ranked as a higher club than many bigger teams who were plying their trade in a lower division. Would their fans have been right to single us out...and say how depressing it is that they were seen as inferior to such a small-time club, with a tradition of low gates and lower league football? No. They would actually. And doubtless did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Interesting statement. What changes do you feel have been driven by messages on this forum? I'd like this to be explored a bit further too, interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I'd like this to be explored a bit further too, interesting... this board and season tkt sales may have lost a certain manager his job???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapegoat Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 this board and season tkt sales may have lost a certain manager his job???????? I feel it was the text in bold that lost Moore his job. Not a few people on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 this board and season tkt sales may have lost a certain manager his job???????? When Ronald went this place didn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) Doncaster can order Latics to do this, because Doncaster are massive. By implication, you are alluding that Oldham were once massiver than Doncaster. Did you know that Margaret Thatcher is not actually Prime Minsister? Or that it is the most massive snow since you last got out of the house? Edited February 2, 2009 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I feel it was the text in bold that lost Moore his job. Not a few people on here. yeah but a lot of people on this board buy those tkts, and the official statement cant be because owtb members thought he was :censored:.(they do read the board afterall) i dont belive myself but you never know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hold on, this club is, taking the blinkers off, really a lower league club in terms of finance and history etc. Some fans seem to have delusions of grandeur resulting from a fairly recent period of high flying, in which the club punched above its weight. Wimbledon (who MK were, in terms of seizing their league position) and Peterborough are similar. When we were in the Premiership, we were ranked as a higher club than many bigger teams who were plying their trade in a lower division. Would their fans have been right to single us out...and say how depressing it is that they were seen as inferior to such a small-time club, with a tradition of low gates and lower league football? No. Football would lose its attraction if the so called smaller clubs were unable to rise above the bigger ones. If Leeds, Leicester, Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday and Manchester City couldn't fall into the nether regions of the league. If Hull couldn't make it to the Premier League. If Oldham couldn't make it to the Premiership...fight with the big boys and stay up. I'd say at the moment, we are playing at about our level in terms of where you'd expect a club of our stature to be. That doesn't mean we should quit and not look up...of course we should. But so should all other clubs. And to those that are 'punching above their weight'...well good luck to them...and they shouldn't be used as examples of how our club is falling away, but as examples of where we could be. Finally a bit of sense. The problem is Corporal you are living in the past where we are a great club that has falln down to the depressing depths of League One. Where in fact we are where we should be if you look at the size of our club, possibly a Championship side at most. I'm sick to death of this division like everyone else but as I only started supporting Oldham as a ST holder during our slide from the top my outlook ojn our situation is much different to yours. If you want to put a negative spin on everything the club does and view it in relativity to our glory days then fine do that, but don't repeat yourself over and over and act like this warped view you have is the reality of the situation. The way i see it is, we've hit the bottom a few years back when we survived on the last day, now we're challengning at the right end of the table consistently, looks like we're heading in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 When Ronald went this place didn't exist. it did...didnt it? not sure, but there was so many debates about him, may have been afterwards, like many of the threads pointless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hold on, this club is, taking the blinkers off, really a lower league club in terms of finance and history etc. Some fans seem to have delusions of grandeur resulting from a fairly recent period of high flying, in which the club punched above its weight. Wimbledon (who MK were, in terms of seizing their league position) and Peterborough are similar. I'd say at the moment, we are playing at about our level in terms of where you'd expect a club of our stature to be. That doesn't mean we should quit and not look up...of course we should. But so should all other clubs. And to those that are 'punching above their weight'...well good luck to them...and they shouldn't be used as examples of how our club is falling away, but as examples of where we could be. When you get a bit of success the object is to not throw it away to the extent that you fall much further than where you started off from. Before the PL days we'd had twenty years of comfortably staying in the second tier. So deep and rapid was our decline, however, and so feeble the club's efforts at reversing it, that even the hardcore support regards where we are now as our rightful place. The problem is that where we are now will not sustain professional football in the town in the long term. Still, we once had a respected Rugby League club as well and the town manages to survive without that. Let's aim for Oldham to be fifth rate in every respect. The point about other clubs passing us on the way up is not that they shouldn't do it but that others manage it while we stand still-and continue to decline in stature. Even clubs without rich owners manage to make it out of this division, even if, in some cases, temporarily. If they manage to stay up, Latics fans can always find an excuse as to why we're inferior: Barnsley won the cup in 1706, Stanley Matthews played for Blackpool etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Before the PL days we'd had twenty years of comfortably staying in the second tier. So deep and rapid was our decline, however, and so feeble the club's efforts at reversing it, that even the hardcore support regards where we are now as our rightful place. The problem is that where we are now will not sustain professional football in the town in the long term. Still, we once had a respected Rugby League club as well and the town manages to survive without that. Let's aim for Oldham to be fifth rate in every respect. So who's fault is this. TTA's? It seems you can't get over the mistakes of previous chairmen/owners but think of the club as an actual entity. As though TTA are joined to them in another way apart from in title, quite bizarre. Maybe you should get over all that and actually get behind the current owners and what they are trying to do, or is that happy clapping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) Finally a bit of sense. The problem is Corporal you are living in the past where we are a great club that has falln down to the depressing depths of League One. Where in fact we are where we should be if you look at the size of our club, possibly a Championship side at most. I'm sick to death of this division like everyone else but as I only started supporting Oldham as a ST holder during our slide from the top my outlook ojn our situation is much different to yours. If you want to put a negative spin on everything the club does and view it in relativity to our glory days then fine do that, but don't repeat yourself over and over and act like this warped view you have is the reality of the situation. The way i see it is, we've hit the bottom a few years back when we survived on the last day, now we're challengning at the right end of the table consistently, looks like we're heading in the right direction. As if on cue another one of the Latics faithful articulates why we are where we belong. The point is that the longer we stay here, the less chance of doing anything about it. Without achievements a club can't build a larger fanbase, and boost its stature, and so the decline deepens. It isn't just me saying this; those who run the club know it, hence the despair when the council threw out the stadium plan. In what way is letting another promotion opportunity ebb away heading in the right direction? Eighth place or eighteenth, it's still the third division. Edited February 2, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 In what way is letting another promotion opportunity ebb away heading in the right direction? Eighth place or eighteenth, it's still the third division. Here's the point that you never, ever answer. What would YOU do? How are we lettign anything ebb away? What would you change? Perhaps we need a venture capitalist to come in and gamble a few million on a promotion campaign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 So who's fault is this. TTA's? It seems you can't get over the mistakes of previous chairmen/owners but think of the club as an actual entity. As though TTA are joined to them in another way apart from in title, quite bizarre. Maybe you should get over all that and actually get behind the current owners and what they are trying to do, or is that happy clapping? I am behind them-at every home game and some away. The fact is, though, that there job is made all the more difficult by the lack of ambition shown in the 1990s. I can't help looking at Bolton and wondering what might have been had some foresight, guile and ambition been shown back then. Instead all we got from the then board ad owners was the pathetic 'pinch me,' 'is this really happening to Latics?' attitudes that many fans displayed. Just to pre-empt others, I'll simply add that, yes, Bolton did win the FACup three times during the early part of the previous century, and once again against the tragedy ravaged ManUre fifty years ago. Despite being from a former Lacashire mill town not unlike Oldham, this qualifies them as what we are not and that is...massive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 As if on cue another one of the Latics faithful articulates why we are where we belong. The point is that the longer we stay here, the less chance of doing anything about it. Without achievements a club can't build a larger fanbase, and boost its stature, and so the decline deepens. It isn't just me saying this; those who run the club know it, hence the despair when the council threw out the stadium plan. In what way is letting another promotion opportunity ebb away heading in the right direction? Eighth place or eighteenth, it's still the third division. Ok you're getting quite tiresome now as if on cue you come up with another ridiculous response which fails to really answer anything that people have put before you and in the large just prove what they are saying. Obviously the club were gutted about the stadium plans being turned down. A huge part of the reason was financial as TTAs cannot afford to cover our losses forever and of course without the increased revenue it means we can't spend more on the team to get out of this division. That is obvious it does not need to be stated, but the longer we stay here does not necessarilly mean the less chance we have of getting out of this division and becoming a sustainable club. If we continue to make progress and build on previous seasons then we will be moving towards our goal. It is unfortunate that this season sees such a strong division but if we can keep this team together for next season we stand a decent chance of challenging again. I still think we will make the play offs this time round, every team goes through bad patches, this is ours, but we've already shown that we are capable this season of matching the best this division has to offer. If we make the paly offs, which as I say I believe we will, our record against the top teams has been pretty good all round bar the defeat to Scunny last week, so what would we have to fear? I'm sure you will put a negative spin on it somehow. 8th or 18th, tecnichally you're in the same division the coming season, but I know which situation I would prefer to end up with to build on and challenge again. Nothing is ever black and white unless it suits you're doom and gloom argument of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Here's the point that you never, ever answer. What would YOU do? How are we lettign anything ebb away? What would you change? It's like trying to nail down jelly. CJ has never responded to the request for his proposals. What would he do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I am behind them-at every home game and some away. The fact is, though, that there job is made all the more difficult by the lack of ambition shown in the 1990s. I can't help looking at Bolton and wondering what might have been had some foresight, guile and ambition been shown back then. Instead all we got from the then board ad owners was the pathetic 'pinch me,' 'is this really happening to Latics?' attitudes that many fans displayed. If you don't associate TTA's with those mistakes that were made over a decade ago now, why keep bringing them up over and over again? Time to move on and forget perhaps? You can still hold your bitter grudges against the former chairmen and owners if you want, i'm not too fond of them myself, but they aren't related to the club anymore and haven't been for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Here's the point that you never, ever answer. What would YOU do? How are we lettign anything ebb away? What would you change? Perhaps we need a venture capitalist to come in and gamble a few million on a promotion campaign? How are we letting it ebb away? Hey-by losing too many games and not winning against teams like Swindon who are there for the taking by any serious promotion candidates. I no longer think that I know what the answer is. I have briefly outlined the spiral of decline in which the club is stuck, but all I know is that we are constantly left behind not only by clubs with greater wealth and better catchment areas etc etc , but sometimes by those who lack such good fortune. I am sorry if you are offended by the fact that his frustrates me, as well as, by the look of things, a sizeable proportion of the hardcore fanbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 If you don't associate TTA's with those mistakes that were made over a decade ago now, why keep bringing them up over and over again? Time to move on and forget perhaps? You can still hold your bitter grudges against the former chairmen and owners if you want, i'm not too fond of them myself, but they aren't related to the club anymore and haven't been for a long time. You can't divorce what happened then from the difficulties the club faces now, for reasons I've just briefly explained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 How are we letting it ebb away? Hey-by losing too many games and not winning against teams like Swindon who are there for the taking by any serious promotion candidates. I no longer think that I know what the answer is. I have briefly outlined the spiral of decline in which the club is stuck, but all I know is that we are constantly left behind not only by clubs with greater wealth and better catchment areas etc etc , but sometimes by those who lack such good fortune. I am sorry if you are offended by the fact that his frustrates me, as well as, by the look of things, a sizeable proportion of the hardcore fanbase. Well what use is that to anyone? You're quite happy to point out problems but have no solutions whatsoever to offer? Fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 It's like trying to nail down jelly. CJ has never responded to the request for his proposals. What would he do? Even if I had the answers, like any other face in the stands, I wouldn't be able to implement them, would I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Well what use is that to anyone? You're quite happy to point out problems but have no solutions whatsoever to offer? Fantastic. It's a discussion forum. Do feel free not to read those posts that offend you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 You can't divorce what happened then from the difficulties the club faces now, for reasons I've just briefly explained. Yes you can, this is a different era. You're trying to laden the club and TTA with the guilt of previous mistakes. It is absolutely ridiculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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