Diego_Sideburns Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 In tonight's rarely wrong Chron, Alan Hardy talks about the financial burden of overnight stays with the number of southern-based clubs. Possible "overnighters" next season are Brentford, Brighton, Charlton, Colchester, Exeter, Gillingham, Leyton Orient, Millwall, Southampton, Southend, Swindon, Wycombe and Yeovil. AH says it probanly averages £3,000 per game to stay overnight. http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-fea...urden-for-clubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 In tonight's rarely wrong Chron, Alan Hardy talks about the financial burden of overnight stays with the number of southern-based clubs. Possible “overnighters” next season are Brentford, Brighton, Charlton, Colchester, Exeter, Gillingham, Leyton Orient, Millwall, Southampton, Southend, Swindon, Wycombe and Yeovil. AH says it probanly averages £3,000 per game to stay overnight. http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-fea...urden-for-clubs £3,000 a night! Where are they staying?! Get them all booked into travellodges, if they book early enough it can work out £9 a room. Probably save them £2k at least, could buy us a few more players! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 And so the drawbridge between the top two divisions and the rest goes up that little bit further... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 And so the drawbridge between the top two divisions and the rest goes up that little bit further... I agree, this would be one step closer to a system with only 2 professional divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 (edited) I've often thought it's be better all round to regionalise things, but after thinking about it some more when they published it in the chron, I'm not so sure now. We'd be looking at a league of a similar size, only with one promotion spot, and a spot going up in a play off with the Southern League. Whilst we'd have tons of local games, we'd be minimising our chances of promotion to the Championship, which is where we should be striving to be, by a long way. If it was decided next season, then I could see the two leagues looking like this*... North Accrington Stanley Bradford Burton Bury Carlisle Chesterfield Crewe Darlington Grimsby Hartlepool Huddersfield Leeds Lincoln City Macclesfield Morecambe Oldham Port Vale Rochdale Rotherham Scunthorpe Shrewsbury Stockport Tranmere Walsall South Aldershot Barnet Bournemouth Brentford Brighton Bristol Rovers Charlton Cheltenham Colchester Dag & Red Exeter Gillingham Hereford Leyton Orient MK Dons Northampton Norwich Notts County Southampton Southend Swindon Torquay Wycombe Yeovil * Assuming Millwall win the play-offs, other than that substitute Notts County for Scunthorpe in our league. The South looks a stronger league to me, but for any Divison 3 club, you're instantly cutting your chances of promotion by 50% and if you're a perrennial 4th divison side well, basically, you're never really going to ever achieve anything other than a relegation to non-league at some point. I can't see enough teams voting for it to happen in all honesty. Edited May 20, 2009 by Frankly Mr Shankly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I've often thought it's be better all round to regionalise things, but after thinking about it some more when they published it in the chron, I'm not so sure now. We'd be looking at a league of a similar size, only with one promotion spot, and a spot going up in a play off with the Southern League. Whilst we'd have tons of local games, we'd be minimising our chances of promotion to the Championship, which is where we should be striving to be, by a long way. If it was decided next season, then I could see the two leagues looking like this*... North Accrington Stanley Bradford Burton Bury Carlisle Chesterfield Crewe Darlington Grimsby Hartlepool Huddersfield Leeds Lincoln City Macclesfield Morecambe Oldham Port Vale Rochdale Rotherham Scunthorpe Shrewsbury Stockport Tranmere Walsall South Aldershot Barnet Bournemouth Brentford Brighton Bristol Rovers Charlton Cheltenham Colchester Dag & Red Exeter Gillingham Hereford Leyton Orient MK Dons Northampton Norwich Notts County Southampton Southend Swindon Torquay Wycombe Yeovil * Assuming Millwall win the play-offs, other than that substitute Notts County for Scunthorpe in our league. The South looks a stronger league to me, but for any Divison 3 club, you're instantly cutting your chances of promotion by 50% and if you're a perrennial 4th divison side well, basically, you're never really going to ever achieve anything other than a relegation to non-league at some point. I can't see enough teams voting for it to happen in all honesty. Exactly correct. One question we should ask-even if taking at face value claims from within the club that promotion is still an aim-is what Alan Hardy's support for the idea represents in terms of the club's future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I see no problem with the league next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 You might want to get your maps out lads. Norwich is further North than you might think (I'm fairly certain more Northerly than Walsall) as is Nottingham (home of Notts County). This has been debated a bit on here and I can see the pluses and minus for it (especially with the geographical make-up of this year's division). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penrhyn Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I wonder if this would have been debated had Bury,Rochdale,Shrewsbury,Bradford all gained promotion from Div 2,and Barnsley,Blackpool,Forrest. relegated from the championship. And Millwall,Petrborough.and MK Dons promoted from div 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 There are often threads asking for ideas of how to get more people through the gates and in my opinion this is the idea with the most chance of succeeding on a consistent basis. Average attendances will definitely increase with regionalised leagues IF the powers that be sort out the promotion/relegation issue. There needs to be enough incentive for promotion and a bit of a safety net at the bottom. I would suggest 2 up from each league with the next 4 from each playing off to find 1 more. A total of 5 to get promoted. This would mean 5 coming down. Maybe you'd need to increase the championship by a couple of teams to make it work. But at the moment 4 go down from league 1 so it's not a massive leap to have 5 from the league above. As for relegation I think it should be a similar thing - 1 from each definite with the next 2 from each playing off for the final relegation spot. You might even need a season or 2 of no relegation at first until the leagues settle. The idea in general may have flaws, but i'd rather look for solutions than just dismiss it out of hand without offering another suggestion. There's too much of that sort of attitude which doesn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) You might want to get your maps out lads. Norwich is further North than you might think (I'm fairly certain more Northerly than Walsall) as is Nottingham (home of Notts County). This has been debated a bit on here and I can see the pluses and minus for it (especially with the geographical make-up of this year's division). There will be one or two geographical quirks in any regionalised league. Norwich is slightly further north than Birmnigham, but is just about the worst place in England to get to and will be one of the longer road journies next season. The club should charter a couple of planes for this! Possible “overnighters” next season are Brentford, Brighton, Charlton, Colchester, Exeter, Gillingham, Leyton Orient, Millwall, Southampton, Southend, Swindon, Wycombe and Yeovil. AH says it probanly averages £3,000 per game to stay overnight.From a footballing persepctive the overnight stay is important (unless it precedes a game at Hereford). The £3k figure sounds about right for 16 players and the other staff travelling when you add on meals etc. More room sharing chaps. £40k a season based on the teams above. I believe Kevin Maher's wage was £150k (as stated by unconfirmed poster on here). Draw your own conclusion as to where a football club's cost base is cock-eyed. Exactly correct. One question we should ask-even if taking at face value claims from within the club that promotion is still an aim-is what Alan Hardy's support for the idea represents in terms of the club's future.I dislike the idea of regionalisation for a range of reasons. - it will reduce access to the Championship - it's a step back - the Conference is a national and fully professional league - the increased attendances from more local derby fixtures won't be as great as people think - lower league tv coverage will attract less money - national companies like JD will be less likely to sponsor teams in a regional league - I beleive it will lead to lower quality football. - currently 7 teams achive a promotion in the lower two divisions. This could reduce that number to 2 or 3. And so the drawbridge between the top two divisions and the rest goes up that little bit further... I have no problem with them spending 5 minutes looking at the pros and cons. But I see it as a massive step back. We're probably talking about saving 1%-2% of the club's turnover here. A better marketing set-up to attract fans would be a superior way of moving towards profitability. Edited May 21, 2009 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I do think the cons (especially in attracting national sponsors) outweigh the pros, but one option is to still have 2 divisions within the region So 2 x 12 teams in North and South. Although it should not be sacrosanct, would playing a team such as Tranmere or Stockport four times a season devalue the "specialnesss" of it. In the case of a more loal rival such as Rochdale, it could increase it. Certainly needs looking into longer than 5 mins. I am still amazed at the £3,000 figure. If 2 blokes are sharing a room. that is 8 rooms for the player, plus about 5 for mgr, asst magr etc that is £200 per room. Obviously the coach on top, but lets say £65 a room. Understandably not a travelodge, and not a major chain nice hotel. I'd hope the Football league would be able to negotiate a discount. So that is £15* £65 round up to £1,000, so that is £2,000 for the coach etc. It would be cheaper to hire a personal jet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 What happens when 2 Southern teams ot 2 Northern teams get relegated from the Championship. There would be teams in the Midlands constantly switching from North to South or vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 What happens when 2 Southern teams ot 2 Northern teams get relegated from the Championship. There would be teams in the Midlands constantly switching from North to South or vice versa. Yep. that's why Coventry have played in every league going, Personally, I'm against regionalisation. I like the Southern games where you get the 'proper' fans that go to games for the giggle (aka insanity) rather than the moaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 I wonder if this would have been debated had Bury,Rochdale,Shrewsbury,Bradford all gained promotion from Div 2,and Barnsley,Blackpool,Forrest. relegated from the championship. And Millwall,Petrborough.and MK Dons promoted from div 1. As the Chron article says Athletic had been rooting for Rochdale or Bury to be promoted via the play-offs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spadam Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) What happens when 2 Southern teams ot 2 Northern teams get relegated from the Championship. There would be teams in the Midlands constantly switching from North to South or vice versa. That is what happens in the conference north and south. I just can't see it happening. I can see why Hardy would want it to happen. I don't want it to happen. I would be able to go to more away games but it would make it less professional. We would lose out in the long term. Edited May 21, 2009 by spadam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Average attendances will definitely increase with regionalised leagues IF the powers that be sort out the promotion/relegation issue. There needs to be enough incentive for promotion and a bit of a safety net at the bottom. It'd be a short-term "interest" uplift and that's all. They'd soon go back down to current levels (or perhaps less) once most teams realise they've not got a cat in hells chance of promotion. Let's be honest to ourselves, the only true signs of an increase in average attendances is the prospect of a promotion run. Take that away, or even reduce the chances of that then the lure of a local derby doesn't quite have the impact on attendances as we think. Like I say, I don't think enough would vote in favour of this for it to work. Especially given the band of clubs across the middle band of the country would almost certainly vote no to this as it would mean they're getting less local derbies and not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 £3,000 a night! Where are they staying?! Get them all booked into travellodges, if they book early enough it can work out £9 a room. Probably save them £2k at least, could buy us a few more players! And I went on flybe the other day and calculated a price on the friday for a flight from manc to norwich all of 54p!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) And I went on flybe the other day and calculated a price on the friday for a flight from manc to norwich all of 54p!!!! Ah, but, you then add the tax on, the check in tax, the fat tax, the VAT, the return trip being busier, and it is £454.54 each way... And for Latics the kit trunk would be £1,785.28 as well!! Edited May 21, 2009 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) And re regionalisation, I fully agree with opinions4u, - it will reduce access to the Championship Yup, I very much doubt the championship would increase the relegation places just to accomodate this. Would probably be a system of 1 up from each followed by a playoffs whereby the winner of a playoff from north meet the winner of a playoff from south, winner goes up - the Conference is a national and fully professional league True, but suppose the FL would probs try to get the conference regionalised too - the increased attendances from more local derby fixtures won't be as great as people think Agreed, i doubt the extra £££ through the gates would make up for the loss of TV revenue (doubt it will be anywhere near 400k a yr we currently get) - lower league tv coverage will attract less money yup, doubt any of the cockneys interested in watching "league 1 north" - national companies like JD will be less likely to sponsor teams in a regional league Agreed - I beleive it will lead to lower quality football. Agreed, i believe the knock on effect of lower sponsorship and TV money would inevitably lead to reduced wages - currently 7 teams achive a promotion in the lower two divisions. This could reduce that number to 2 or 3. Unless it is decided to increase the relegation from the championship to 4 teams, and have 1 automatic and playoffs like they do in the conference, then it would be 4 Firstly,Have a gander at this article, makes some interesting points. I would also like to add to opinions4u's points - The league will not be as competitive. If we had regionalisation, chances are we will be playing in the same division as the likes of grimsby, who barely stayed in football league and whom in footballing terms, we are a class above, hence a huge gap in quality btween the best and worst teams. I also think this could have a knock on effect as our own standards would arguably drop as a result. - Fairness: It could work out that one div, ie league 1 north, is much stronger than league 1 south, as in there maybe teams who are hitting only 6th/7th in league 1 north, but because of the difference in quality, if put into league 1 south, would walk 1st - Very much doubt midlands clubs would back regionalisation. Basically, each season, the 48 teams in 'league 1' would be divided into north and south by geographic location. Firstly, chances are it will be midlands clubs that will switch between north and south depending on the amount of northern/southern teams in the division. Referring to the article, back when we had regionalisation, because of how the boundaries fell, both Nottingham teams were places in div 3 south, and derby, which is right near Nottingham, were placed in div 3 north. Edited May 21, 2009 by Lookers_Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 And for Latics the kit trunk would be £1,785.28 as well!! Perhaps they should wear their kits for the entire journey to save a few quid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Kelvin Trippier doesn't seem to mind wearing his shorts in Ibiza. Good suggestion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Ah, but, you then add the tax on, the check in tax, the fat tax, the VAT, the return trip being busier, and it is £454.54 each way... And for Latics the kit trunk would be £1,785.28 as well!! Aye whoops forgot about that, including everything i think its just under 30 quid each way, which is still cheaper than going by train (with railcard too!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 At first glance I thought it seemed a good idea, however someone has mentioned that the conference is a national and professional league. So if they can afford to do that with much lower attendances maybe it highlights that the solution maybe a bit closer to home. Is it about time FL teams got their finances in order and started living within their means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Is it about time FL teams got their finances in order and started living within their means? Yes, and something I have had an issue with our club for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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