Safe Standing

[GuyGermanLatic]

I was thinking early about a post been made to do with Fund Raising this year and what we could do and the cause it would go to. Also I was thinking about standing at Latics matches as I got my season ticket next to the barrier in the RRE. Now I know people there hate being told to sit down as it is the "singing" area so I came up with this (only idea's remember);

• Try to bring in safe standing
• Hold an event to help fund raising
• A petition for Latics fans

And any other thing you can think of. Now I know this has been posted again but it's really caught my eye for some reason, especially with the fund raising idea. What do you think? Edited June 8, 2009 by GuyGermanLatic

[razza699]

Youve mentioned this before and its not going to happen .

[GuyGermanLatic]

Youve mentioned this before and its not going to happen .

 

I haven't, i've discussed it that someone else started and standing on the old NSM but not this in the RRE.

 

[GlossopLatic]

Can't see the law changing on standing at football grounds am afraid so an unlikely starter their however a singing section maybe viable in an attempt to reclaim the atmosphere.

[Macca]

Not this again. Don't go to many games anymore because being at BP is a :censored: place to be.

[davebuckley06]

jus out of interest what is the law on standing at football. it cant be illegal because many stadia are standing e.g. yeovil, hereford bristol rovers etc.

[Ackey]

jus out of interest what is the law on standing at football. it cant be illegal because many stadia are standing e.g. yeovil, hereford bristol rovers etc.

It's illegal, due to health and safety legislation, to stand in seated areas - as they are not designed for prolonged standing.

[Macca]

Premier, championship club stadiums are to be all-seating, if you come up from League 1 with standing areas you've a couple of seasons to make it all-seater, after that they can't use any areas without seats. League One and lower it's not compulsory but you can't replace an area of seats with standing.

[davebuckley06]

that makes sense - cheers

[BP1960]

jus out of interest what is the law on standing at football. it cant be illegal because many stadia are standing e.g. yeovil, hereford bristol rovers etc.

 

Football stadium seating/standing regs

[Tommy_Fent]

I was thinking early about a post been made to do with Fund Raising this year and what we could do and the cause it would go to. Also I was thinking about standing at Latics matches as I got my season ticket next to the barrier in the RRE. Now I know people there hate being told to sit down as it is the "singing" area so I came up with this (only idea's remember);

 

• Try to bring in safe standing
• Hold an event to help fund raising
• A petition for Latics fans

 

And any other thing you can think of. Now I know this has been posted again but it's really caught my eye for some reason, especially with the fund raising idea. What do you think?

 

I'm all for the idea of safe standing, it's one thing I would want to help campaign for, but unfortunatly we as a club could do very little to help change the law. The only suggestion I would suggest would be for all those people in favour of safe standing across the country march from the FA to Westminister of Visa versa to make our voices heard but unfortunatly I don't think enough people in favour would take it seriously

[wardlelatic]

The only way standing will happen again is if you write off to your MP and make valid argument about it.

 

MP's are keen to keep the public happy at the moment, so you never know !

 

Although, it wont happen again in our life time

[rudemedic]

It's illegal, due to health and safety legislation, to stand in seated areas - as they are not designed for prolonged standing.

 

I wish they would enforce this rule and throw people out en masse as it would leave very few fans in the ground for most Premiership clubs (PLC are perhaps the worst offenders), especially away fans who it seems always stand up.

 

Safe standing works in Germany but it might not work in England, I think a lot more people would stop going than those who would come back if parts of the ground allowed 'safe standing'. Plus it would be expensive to implement, and I doubt those people standing would be willing to pay more for the privelege (standing areas tend to be cheaper than seated one) to cover the expense. If you want to stand at games that badly then maybe you should go to those grounds with standing areas more often as there are a few knocking about in this division.

[Yard Dog]

I wish they would enforce this rule and throw people out en masse as it would leave very few fans in the ground for most Premiership clubs (PLC are perhaps the worst offenders), especially away fans who it seems always stand up.

 

Safe standing works in Germany but it might not work in England, I think a lot more people would stop going than those who would come back if parts of the ground allowed 'safe standing'. Plus it would be expensive to implement, and I doubt those people standing would be willing to pay more for the privelege (standing areas tend to be cheaper than seated one) to cover the expense. If you want to stand at games that badly then maybe you should go to those grounds with standing areas more often as there are a few knocking about in this division.

 

Sitting down at the match is unnatural.

 

Would you like to see singing banned too ?

Edited June 8, 2009 by Yard Dog

[Tommy_Fent]

I wish they would enforce this rule and throw people out en masse as it would leave very few fans in the ground for most Premiership clubs (PLC are perhaps the worst offenders), especially away fans who it seems always stand up.

 

Safe standing works in Germany but it might not work in England, I think a lot more people would stop going than those who would come back if parts of the ground allowed 'safe standing'. Plus it would be expensive to implement, and I doubt those people standing would be willing to pay more for the privelege (standing areas tend to be cheaper than seated one) to cover the expense. If you want to stand at games that badly then maybe you should go to those grounds with standing areas more often as there are a few knocking about in this division.

 

your first point, Germany has the largest attendances out of all the leagues in Europe yet it is the 4th best in terms of quality, although I beleive your 2nd point is the main factor in favour against safe-standing, but I would like to see safe standing at my team in order to make my match-day experience better, I've been to Frankfurt and it was the loudest I've ever heard from a football ground, and Wisebaden (a club you could say was a German equivelent of ourselves) was a rocking place despite being bottom of the league and not winning a game (this was in November), I was at the Oasis gig last night and it was a far more dangerous environment than at Wisebaden or Frankfurt. Although I did notice that safe standing in Germany tends to be at the opposite end from the away fans, if that day ever came where we did have safe standing it would be in the Chaddy not the Rocky

[wozz_oafc]

I wish they would enforce this rule and throw people out en masse as it would leave very few fans in the ground for most Premiership clubs (PLC are perhaps the worst offenders), especially away fans who it seems always stand up.

 

Safe standing works in Germany but it might not work in England, I think a lot more people would stop going than those who would come back if parts of the ground allowed 'safe standing'. Plus it would be expensive to implement, and I doubt those people standing would be willing to pay more for the privelege (standing areas tend to be cheaper than seated one) to cover the expense. If you want to stand at games that badly then maybe you should go to those grounds with standing areas more often as there are a few knocking about in this division.

 

I would actually pay more to stand in a safe standing area instead of the morgue like sitting areas.

 

 

Anyway for safe standing to be implemented nothing needs to be changed in terms of the stadia. Blocks of seats just need to be designated safe standing or sitting. The seats themselves automatically serve the purpose of creating a stand safe for standing in. With all seater stadiums over crowding will not happen. The same amount of tickets would be sold just like if everyone had to sit down. People would just stand in front of their seats. There would be no more trouble than there is now IMO because our police are well equiped and prepared for dealing with trouble at football matches in this country. By putting a couple of standing blocks in each all seater stadium in England I am positive there would be better atmospheres, with those who want to stand and sing standing together. There would also be less confrontation between those who want to sit and those who want to stand as everyone would go in their designated areas. Safe standing may even eradicate home and away fans congregating in sections next to each other and standing hurling abuse at each other rather than watching the game if the standing sections were far apart. There would also be far less confrontation between fans and stewards.

 

Anyone with an ounce of common sense should be able to see that there is no reason why safe standing cannot be adopted in English all seater stadiums. Typical of this country and those who run it the all seater rule which they have bought in is way over the top. Of course things needed to change, I would never advocate a return to the old style terraces. It is great to see that England leads the world by having a large number of high quality and safe stadia. However for anyone to argue that there are not a great deal of people out there who enjoy and prefer watching their football stood up is an idiot. Look at every other country in the world, supporters will be allowed to stand or sit according to their preference. To those who ridicule those who want to stand, I say your selfish and not seeing the bigger picture. There is plenty of room for both parties to enjoy the game whether stood or sat.

 

I am pretty sure the laws saying people must sit at football stadia were bought in for peoples safety not to ensure those who want to sit behind people standing can see. Now I believe we have reached a point where our stadia will allow the safe standing and sitting. All it takes is a bit of common sense to prevail and everyone will be happy and be able to enjoy the game as they please. Sadly, I very much doubt this will happen and we will be having this debate for years to come

 

 

 

[Stitch_KTF]

I think you make good points wozz, as you say all based on common sense. The standing infront of seats should be adopted if only because it goes on anyway largely without penalty. If standing infront of seats was allowed it could be on the condition that everybody sits in the event of an emergency (announced over the tannoy) with a no tolerance policy towards the minority which would not comply.

 

Excessive health and safety is probably my number one pet hate. If some legislation could be passed to put a stop to the claims culture then some common sense concerning matters like this would return.

[rudemedic]

I'm not anti standing, far from it (where I normally go in the Chaddy I usually end up standing for a fair portion of the game). However, I would sit down if asked (provided the people in front of me sat down too) the main reason is I'm not particularly keen to get a criminal record for standing at football. This is my point some people stand not to create a better atmosphere (I'll come back to that point later) but because the person in front of them is standing and they would like to see the game they have paid money to see (as opposed to the back of someone's head). All those people who say all seater stadia is health and safety gone wild should read the excellent emotional article linked in this post http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=21807 Hillsborough although not entirely the fault of standing wouldn't have happend in an all seater stadia. I've not been in a crush but I have been in a stadium which has had its capacity reduced by FIFA for safety reasons (its in Malawi) and I can see why people were standing in an all seater stadia (well not as we know seats but you were supposed to sit down) and you could see the chaos because of movement amongst the crowd.

 

As for the person who so eloquently argued about sitting in a football game being unnatural- I presume you never went to football when you were so small that if the person in front of you stood up you wouldn't be able to see even if you stood up on the chair (something which is decidedly dodgy). Plus I was there at Huddersfield where 3000 Latics fans created perhaps our best atmosphere of the season and I would say 90% of those were sat down doing it (I know I was). I was also at Yeovil in 2008 (the last game I went to when I was in a standing section) and 500 Oldham fans hardly created any atmosphere. I'm not an acoustic expert but I can make as much noise clapping my hands and shouting (the basis of 99% of all football atmosphere) sitting as I could if I was standing, so don't make me laugh when you say you need to stand to create an atmosphere.

 

Some people may prefer to stand at football (I know the last thing I wanted to do when I was standing at Yeovil was sit down having driven God knows how many miles in the previous 24 hours). But not everyone does. (I know I didn't when I could hardly stand never mind stand for 90 minutes because I was on crutches).

 

Just because something goes on without penalty doesn't make it less illegal, the speed limit on British Motorways is 70 (but if you drive at 70 you get abuse- I don't drive at 70 far from it). However if the cops had the man power to enforce the speed limit more often people would soon stop speeding (who here drives past cops cars at 80 for example on the motorway). It wouldn't take an army of cops to enforce the no standing rule at football- just one guy- the ref. If refs were told to stop play because of persistent standing then the persistent standing would stop. (I'm not advocating it comes to that but it would work).

 

It might cost more money to implement safe standing at football (some of your ideas might work but I'm not sure how safe they are in large numbers). But I doubt a good percentage of people would be willing to pay to implement it. Also let me put it to you this way, when we are at away games and we are told to sit down by stewards a common argument is what about the home fans why don't you ask them to sit down. If home fans were allowed to stand in safe standing areas then by the laws of football (which say home and away fans must be treated the same) then surely away fans must have a safe standing zone but I would say more of our away fans would prefer to sit than stand (anyone with kids, or dodgy limbs, or elderly) what about them?

 

Its quite simple those in favour of safe standing always bring up the same arguments- better atmosphere, works in Germany (I've not seen it anywhere else so whoever said they see it all round the world can't have been watching the same games as me) (N.B. If someone like Johnny comes on and says they do it in Barca then I will admit I'm wrong), people do it anyway. But you tell that to any one who has ever been killed at football in a death that wouldn't have happened if it had been all seater with everyone seated. 1 death because someone is stood up as opposed to being sat down is 1 too many and it isn't worth any supposed increase in enjoyment or any supposed increase in atmosphere and since you can't predict where that one death will take place where appropriate stadia should be all seater (with everyone sat down).

[Stitch_KTF]

But you tell that to any one who has ever been killed at football in a death that wouldn't have happened if it had been all seater with everyone seated. 1 death because someone is stood up as opposed to being sat down is 1 too many and it isn't worth any supposed increase in enjoyment or any supposed increase in atmosphere and since you can't predict where that one death will take place where appropriate stadia should be all seater (with everyone sat down).

 

Jesus, standing never killed anybody mate...it's overcrowding that causes danger, and all seater stadia aren't necessary to protect from this risk.

 

Simple as that.

 

 

 

What is 'safe standing' anyway? I propose we have a safe sitting, whereby everybody wears steel toe caps for when clumsy buggers stand on your feet whilst squeezing past to their safe, padded seats.

 

 

[3 Lions]

Barcelona does have standing areas behind the goal.

 

If the stadium at Bradford had been all seater, then a lot more than 56 people would have died. I don't believe that in an disaster you can safely evacuate an all seater stadium quickly enough and I hope we never have to find out. The arguments against standing always seem to refer to the old days, when clearly safe standing areas are nothing of the sort.

 

I remember way back when we were bidding for the 2006 WC, Bobby Charlton at the time cited that all stadia had to be all seater otherwise we would not be successful. Ironically we lost out to Germany, which has standing areas??

 

Safe standing could work, but it would have to be heavily regulated. I'd make them season ticket only, that way you cut out/reduce the chance that it can be overcrowded. Even if they did relax the laws, I highly doubt we would see it back at BP as areas of the Chaddy/RRE would have to be redeveloped to accomodate them.

[wozz_oafc]

Barcelona does have standing areas behind the goal.

 

If the stadium at Bradford had been all seater, then a lot more than 56 people would have died. I don't believe that in an disaster you can safely evacuate an all seater stadium quickly enough and I hope we never have to find out. The arguments against standing always seem to refer to the old days, when clearly safe standing areas are nothing of the sort.

 

I remember way back when we were bidding for the 2006 WC, Bobby Charlton at the time cited that all stadia had to be all seater otherwise we would not be successful. Ironically we lost out to Germany, which has standing areas??

 

Safe standing could work, but it would have to be heavily regulated. I'd make them season ticket only, that way you cut out/reduce the chance that it can be overcrowded. Even if they did relax the laws, I highly doubt we would see it back at BP as areas of the Chaddy/RRE would have to be redeveloped to accomodate them.

 

Safe standing could easily be accomodated at BP and all other all seater stadia in the country without redevelopment. It just requires the common sense to designate some areas standing and some areas sitting. There would be no over crowding, one standing place infront of one seat.

[LaticsPete]

Safe standing could easily be accomodated at BP and all other all seater stadia in the country without redevelopment. It just requires the common sense to designate some areas standing and some areas sitting. There would be no over crowding, one standing place infront of one seat.

 

Wouldn't that make it difficult for those sitting down to see?

[BlueJazzer]

If hillsborough had the type of safe standing like in the pic then there would never have been a crush in the first place as there wouldnt have been enough weight per row to push the barriers. The type of standin in that pic has got to be safe. For gods sake ive been standing on my feet for 37 years now and i hardly ever fall over.... Well, unless im drunk.... or playing football.... or on a boat..... or......

[wozz_oafc]

Wouldn't that make it difficult for those sitting down to see?

 

If you read my post again you will notice i said designated areas for standing and sitting. So I would say if you were sat down in a standing area then yes it would be difficult to see but you would also be an absolute idiot.

 

I dont see whats so hard to grasp about the concept of designating certain blocks in the home and away ends of all seater stadia as sitting and standing areas.

[wozz_oafc]

If hillsborough had the type of safe standing like in the pic then there would never have been a crush in the first place as there wouldnt have been enough weight per row to push the barriers. The type of standin in that pic has got to be safe. For gods sake ive been standing on my feet for 37 years now and i hardly ever fall over.... Well, unless im drunk.... or playing football.... or on a boat..... or......

 

 

 

Exactly. If it was so dangerous to stand, we would all be forced into wheel chairs or every situation involving standing would have seats installed. Like at cash machines, supermarket checkouts, the top of hills and mountains, lifts, the goalkeeper would probably have one on the goal line etc.

 

I always got the impression that crushes such as hillsboro were due to overcrowding not standing. I am sure we now have stadium designs and police capable of preventing overcrowding to allow people to stand safely.