rudemedic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Quite interesting how low heroin's rank is when it is often considered to be highly addictive. Could this possibly be down to the measurements of each drug used in the study? ie. if you took the common dosage of nicotine and then compared it gram for gram with heroin this may result in using far less heroin than would normally be used in a typical dose for that particular drug. Rudemedic care to enlighten, how accurate is this? Heroin in its purest form isn't supposed to be very addictive- but the only people who can get heroin in its purest form are doctors and patients in severe pain. The Heroin sold on the street is probably made more addictive with the additives used to cut it- so 1000g of Heroin produces 2000g of Heroin sold on the street if you are lucky (probably more like 5000g in Oldham). The other thing about heroin is that whilst it isn't as addictive as cigarettes its a lot more expensive so has a big stigma from people havig social problems as a result of chronic usage. That study seemed fairly accurate in its ranking to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 ??? Sorry fella but you are totally wrong. Scarily wrong By the way read this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/156...cer-causes.html It says that 1/3 of the 300000 cancer cases in the UK are 'linked' to diet rather than the direct result of. That could mean a whole host of things, too much saturated fat, too high a colesterol intake, not getting enough vegetables in your diet, drinking too much etc etc, not necessarily purely down to red meat, it probably contributes but it is clearly not causing 100000 cancer cases on it's own. So all those factors together have equalled 100000 cancer cases, how many do smoking attribute to the 300000? From cancer research UK; "Smoking is the single biggest cause of cancer in the world and accounts for one in four UK cancer deaths" Not just cases, actual deaths, so how many on top of that get lucky? Terrible statistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Heroin in its purest form isn't supposed to be very addictive- but the only people who can get heroin in its purest form are doctors and patients in severe pain. The Heroin sold on the street is probably made more addictive with the additives used to cut it- so 1000g of Heroin produces 2000g of Heroin sold on the street if you are lucky (probably more like 5000g in Oldham). The other thing about heroin is that whilst it isn't as addictive as cigarettes its a lot more expensive so has a big stigma from people havig social problems as a result of chronic usage. That study seemed fairly accurate in its ranking to me. Fair enough, so what's the deal with crystal meth, i saw the Louis Theroux documentary on the drug a few months back about how it's a real problem in America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) It says that 1/3 of the 300000 cancer cases in the UK are 'linked' to diet rather than the direct result of. That could mean a whole host of things, too much saturated fat, too high a colesterol intake, not getting enough vegetables in your diet, drinking too much etc etc, not necessarily purely down to red meat, it probably contributes but it is clearly not causing 100000 cancer cases on it's own. So all those factors together have equalled 100000 cancer cases, how many do smoking attribute to the 300000? From cancer research UK; "Smoking is the single biggest cause of cancer in the world and accounts for one in four UK cancer deaths" Not just cases, actual deaths, so how many on top of that get lucky? Terrible statistic. I think your losing the point here... Its not a willy waving contest between smoking and drinking... Its about recognising that we all do things which seriously effect our health and we continue to do so happily because we enjoy them... Drinking has a seriously negative effect on your health... So does red meat... That can not be denied... I bet you do them though... People must be leaner, take more exercise, eat more whole foods, virtually cut out alcohol, consume less red meat and eat no bacon or ham at all. A panel of 21 world experts spent five years evaluating what increases the risk of cancer and what decreases it based on an in-depth analysis of 7,000 cancer studies from around the world dating back to the 1960s. Well personally I will take the risk of getting the cancers thanks Edited October 6, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Heroin in its purest form isn't supposed to be very addictive- but the only people who can get heroin in its purest form are doctors and patients in severe pain. The Heroin sold on the street is probably made more addictive with the additives used to cut it- so 1000g of Heroin produces 2000g of Heroin sold on the street if you are lucky (probably more like 5000g in Oldham). The other thing about heroin is that whilst it isn't as addictive as cigarettes its a lot more expensive so has a big stigma from people havig social problems as a result of chronic usage. That study seemed fairly accurate in its ranking to me. So, my good man, is there any chance you could drop some non-addictive pure heroin in my direction? NB. I'll forego on the crystal meth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I think your losing the point here... Its not a willy waving contest between smoking and drinking... Its about recognising that we all do things which seriously effect our health and we continue to do so happily because we enjoy them... Drinking has a seriously negative effect on your health... So does red meat... That can not be denied... I bet you do them though... Well personally I will take the risk of getting the cancers thanks I didn't turn it into a 'willy waving contest', you tried to claim that drinking and eating red meat were on the same level as smoking, so I disproved this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Its not a willy waving contest between smoking and drinking... Its about recognising that we all do things which seriously effect our health and we continue to do so happily because we enjoy them... Indeed. It's also about how Oldham can attract the people that do these things. Smokers and drinkers we can surely do something to help into the club. That Stitch bloke isn't welcome though. Him and his dodgy stuff that I wouldn't like to try outside Charlton at some point. At all. Or Brighton, Darlington, Brentford, Dagenham, Spurs, Oldham, Olhdam again, Doncaster, did I mention Oldham... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 So, my good man, is there any chance you could drop some non-addictive pure heroin in my direction? yeh sounds pretty good actually, let's go chasin the dragon. Do you sit in the RRE, we can shoot up next time we play a team we're expected to beat and fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 ??? Sorry fella but you are totally wrong. Scarily wrong By the way read this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/156...cer-causes.html That study hardly mentioned Cigarettes, and while Yes alcohol and red meat are carcinogenic nicotine is more so. The amount of red meat is a lot too. Cigarettes cause more mortality and morbidity than alcohol easily as smoking is a risk factor for almost all forms of cancer (the one it isn't you can't get unless you have the eastern block snip and switch), alcohol not so much. Loads of things which have excessive alcohol as a risk factor also have smoking but with smoking there is no excessive- 1/day is enough but with booze you need to exceed the daily recommended limits before you start having problems. Just from my own personal experience I've seen more people ill in hospital with cig related problems than booze and doctors are encouraged to tell everyone to stop smoking but the only people encouraged to become teetotal are alcoholics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) I didn't turn it into a 'willy waving contest', you tried to claim that drinking and eating red meat were on the same level as smoking, so I disproved this. You have disproved nothing... All you have done is shown ignorance of the problem they present... Drinking IS a major cause of cancer and death in this country.... Smoking is harder to quit than drinking, but smoking and drinking cause as much damage to your body... Edited October 6, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 That study hardly mentioned Cigarettes, and while Yes alcohol and red meat are carcinogenic nicotine is more so. The amount of red meat is a lot too. Cigarettes cause more mortality and morbidity than alcohol easily as smoking is a risk factor for almost all forms of cancer (the one it isn't you can't get unless you have the eastern block snip and switch), alcohol not so much. Loads of things which have excessive alcohol as a risk factor also have smoking but with smoking there is no excessive- 1/day is enough but with booze you need to exceed the daily recommended limits before you start having problems. Just from my own personal experience I've seen more people ill in hospital with cig related problems than booze and doctors are encouraged to tell everyone to stop smoking but the only people encouraged to become teetotal are alcoholics. Now you mention cancer, but alcohol related :censored: must be: (a) Heart disease, high blood pressure related stuff (strokes, etc), amongst the liver related crap. ( A&E stuff that costs us all billions* per person. *Lira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 That study hardly mentioned Cigarettes, and while Yes alcohol and red meat are carcinogenic nicotine is more so. The amount of red meat is a lot too. Cigarettes cause more mortality and morbidity than alcohol easily as smoking is a risk factor for almost all forms of cancer (the one it isn't you can't get unless you have the eastern block snip and switch), alcohol not so much. Loads of things which have excessive alcohol as a risk factor also have smoking but with smoking there is no excessive- 1/day is enough but with booze you need to exceed the daily recommended limits before you start having problems. Just from my own personal experience I've seen more people ill in hospital with cig related problems than booze and doctors are encouraged to tell everyone to stop smoking but the only people encouraged to become teetotal are alcoholics. I think your last comment shows up how much rubbish was in your post there matey... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 So, my good man, is there any chance you could drop some non-addictive pure heroin in my direction? NB. I'll forego on the crystal meth. Oops I forgot the word relatively. But to answer your question- no (well actually it would be Yes once I've graduated for a few years but be a one time only thing and you have to do my prision time for me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 You have disproved nothing... All you have done is shown ignorance of the problem they present... Drinking IS a major cause of cancer and death in this country.... Smoking is harder to quit than drinking, but smoking and drinking cause as much damage to your body... Again, i didn't say drinking didn't cause cancer, I didn't say smoking is easy to quit, but you do still have a choice. Drinking does not damage the body as badly as smoking, read what rudemedic posted above as he's far more well read than either of us on this sort of thing. My source wasn't a newspaper it was a 'CancerResearchUK' who tend to agree that smoking is worse for you than drinking although they also note you should only drink in moderation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Now you mention cancer, but alcohol related :censored: must be: (a) Heart disease, high blood pressure related stuff (strokes, etc), amongst the liver related crap. ( A&E stuff that costs us all billions* per person. *Lira A all more risky if you smoke (bar the liver stuff and then its a 1 in 10 chance of having problems supposedly) B Yes that's true but smoking still wins as cancer is bloody expensive to treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Again, i didn't say drinking didn't cause cancer, I didn't say smoking is easy to quit, but you do still have a choice. Drinking does not damage the body as badly as smoking, read what rudemedic posted above as he's far more well read than either of us on this sort of thing. My source wasn't a newspaper it was a 'CancerResearchUK' who tend to agree that smoking is worse for you than drinking although they also note you should only drink in moderation. Interested to hear why you think rudemedic is better read Your just guessing fella I have read up on the effects of both drink and cigs... The damage is very similar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I think your last comment shows up how much rubbish was in your post there matey... No not really as if alcohol was really bad for you everyone would be encouraged to be teetotal as it is only those who drink excessively* are encouraged to cut down and alcoholics are the only people encouraged to stop entirely. *Note excessivley often depends on your doctor and which scale they are using (if they bother to measure it at all- after all you are only an alcoholic if you drink more than your doctor or so the saying goes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 No not really as if alcohol was really bad for you everyone would be encouraged to be teetotal as it is only those who drink excessively* are encouraged to cut down and alcoholics are the only people encouraged to stop entirely. *Note excessivley often depends on your doctor and which scale they are using (if they bother to measure it at all- after all you are only an alcoholic if you drink more than your doctor or so the saying goes) My doctor uses the Brentford scale. He's great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Interested to hear why you think rudemedic is better read Your just guessing fella I have read up on the effects of both drink and cigs... The damage is very similar... Erm it's kind of his speciality, you know, the whole medicine thing, i'm sure 'The Little Engine That Could' has plenty of cancer related pictures though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Interested to hear why you think rudemedic is better read Your just guessing fella I have read up on the effects of both drink and cigs... The damage is very similar... Er probably because I do this sort of for a 'living'- I think someone on here may be involved in health economics and they will know more of the detail on cost than me. I will accept that the damage done by excessive drink and cigs is similar (drink still being better for you IMHO) but excessive drinking is way above 3-4 units/day for a man where as excessive smoking is 1 cig/day. Smoking is worse for you than drinking ask any doctor you like- I could probably find a paper that said the moon is made of cheese and if it was puiblished in the guardian you'd believe it to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) Er probably because I do this sort of for a 'living'- I think someone on here may be involved in health economics and they will know more of the detail on cost than me. I will accept that the damage done by excessive drink and cigs is similar (drink still being better for you IMHO) but excessive drinking is way above 3-4 units/day for a man where as excessive smoking is 1 cig/day. Smoking is worse for you than drinking ask any doctor you like- I could probably find a paper that said the moon is made of cheese and if it was puiblished in the guardian you'd believe it to be true. you a nurse ? Edited October 6, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 My doctor uses the Brentford scale. He's great. Aah so that trip to Brighton is no longer used right must tell them that (since I worked with your doctor). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 you a nurse No but I've been in a few. Boom Boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyPimp Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Any chance someone can un-merge this 'Barry Owen on Attendances' / 'Smoking' thread, please? I'm interested in the future of my club, not the health of the nation (selfish I know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) No but I've been in a few. Boom Boom. Doctor? Carer? Porter? Canteen ? Edited October 7, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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