Our Finances

[lancy lad]

Anyone watch Late Kick Off last night???

 

They interviewed Peter Ridsdale who said that he is aiming to save PNE £750k PER MONTH just to break even - how on earth did they get into that state?

 

Apparently the current owner has backed them to the tune of £25m and wants some of it back? Good look with Ridsdale in charge!

 

Les Parry was in the studio and he said Trannies break even and this year made a small profit (I guess the sale of Dale Jennings helped).

 

How come we had a money spinning tie at Liverpool and even if we got to Wembley, are we expecting to still lose £500k???

 

I understand the difference between us and PNE in terms of size and ambition, but surely Tranmere are similar to us albeit they get slightly more fans to home matches???

[Oh Heck C-Beck]

I would guess Tranmere have a lot lower maintenance costs for their ground and much higher match day income due to more fans and better facilities which could give them the financial edge over Oldham.

 

I would argue that Latics lose between £3.50 and £7 from me from most games as they don't have a bar in the Chaddy End. I am sure there are numerous ways our bad facilities make us lose out.

[opinions4u]

How come we had a money spinning tie at Liverpool and even if we got to Wembley, are we expecting to still lose £500k???

Before the big games, knock 1,000 off the average attendance x £20 x 23 games and you won't be far off.

 

As for the rest of Corney's £1m - no idea!

[lancy lad]

Both fair points but as for Tranmere getting a much bigger crowd, I dont really agree!

 

Their average crowd is 4,888 taken from this season's league games and ours is 4,636 based on league games (albeit I understand that will reduce as the season goes on as we have played many of our local games)!!

 

As for the old 1,000 x £23 statistic we all know it doesn't work that way (I would guess at least 50 - 60% of that will be kids and pensioners at concessionary rates)!

[Lookers_Carl]

I would say, without getting into the 'well maybe if people attended more' debate, the following will have contributed greatly.

 

1) Substantial drop in the average gate since 2008/2009, and continual decline of home support (which this season has been compensated by vastly increased away support due to the increased amount of local teams or teams with large followings in this division), compared with a less substantial (but still substantial) drop in the wage bill since then.

 

2) Boundary Park maintenance costs. As Ackey said in a previous thread, we will be extremely fortunate to get another decade out of the current main stand, and chaddy has another 15. My estimates would be lower than that, but the maintenance costs are only going to go up. I personally think the current maintenance costs for Boundary Park will account for at least 50% of this 1 million, but that is just based on wild guesswork and I don't have much to go on apart from previous maintenance costs quoted by Simon Corney.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Lookers_Carl

[oafcprozac]

I would say, without getting into the 'well maybe if people attended more' debate, the following will have contributed greatly.

 

1) Substantial drop in the average gate since 2008/2009, and continual decline of home support (which this season has been compensated by vastly increased away support due to the increased amount of local teams or teams with large followings in this division), compared with a less substantial (but still substantial) drop in the wage bill since then.

 

2) Boundary Park maintenance costs. As Ackey said in a previous thread, we will be extremely fortunate to get another decade out of the current main stand, and chaddy has another 15. My estimates would be lower than that, but the maintenance costs are only going to go up. I personally think the current maintenance costs for Boundary Park will account for at least 50% of this 1 million, but that is just based on wild guesswork and I don't have much to go on apart from previous maintenance costs quoted by Simon Corney.

 

If we lose Monday Night, I expect crowds to dip below 3,000 as for the losses i'm sure club accounts showed the club were taking a hefty hit (£1.5M) for the (failed) planning applications? As 'Operation Clawback' swung into action?

 

A squad top heavy on loanees and kids, is not losing the club the amounts being bandied about. That and the fact we have gone from offering two year deals to now offering a season or maybe a 6 month deal here and there means the club are not committing. We were losing £50k a week under Moore with players of the ilk of Hall, Hill, Armstrong, Murray, Killen, Wijnhard etc…. but now we are told we are losing anything up to five figures a week with a squad that includes very few high earners? I simply don't buy it.

Edited January 24, 2012 by oafcprozac

[NIKI1234]

If we lose Monday Night, I expect crowds to dip below 3,000 as for the losses i'm sure club accounts showed the club were taking a hefty hit (£1.5M) for the (failed) planning applications? As 'Operation Clawback' swung into action?

 

I think your right.

 

When we were in this division 5 or 6 years ago and had an average above 6000 i used to look down my nose at the crappy 4k crowds that peterborough, bournemouth, Port Vale etc were getting. Now look at us were below that and into Cheltenham, Bury, Yeovil and Dale terriotory

 

Bad times :-(

[Lookers_Carl]

If we lose Monday Night, I expect crowds to dip below 3,000 as for the losses i'm sure club accounts showed the club were taking a hefty hit (£1.5M) for the (failed) planning applications? As 'Operation Clawback' swung into action?

 

A squad top heavy on loanees and kids, is not losing the club the amounts being bandied about. That and the fact we have gone from offering two year deals to now offering a season or maybe a 6 month deal here and there means the club are not committing. We were losing £50k a week under Moore with players of the ilk of Hall, Hill, Armstrong, Murray, Killen, Wijnhard etc…. but now we are told we are losing anything up to five figures a week with a squad that includes very few high earners? I simply don't buy it.

 

Again, without getting into the 'if more people attended' debate, the average attendance for 2010/2011 was 4392.

 

The average so far this season is 4723 after 12 games. Of the ten league games we have left at home, I would say the Preston game is the only dead cert for an attendance over 5000, with Charlton and Tranmere games maybe having half a chance of 4500. So there is a good chance that despite the increased number of away fans paying through the turnstiles this season, a few sub 3000 attendances club could still see the average attendance drop below 4392.

 

If things don't progress with the new stand, I am not counting out the possibility of Latics playing their home games at Gigg Lane in 2-3 seasons time.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Lookers_Carl

[Stevie_J]

Again, without getting into the 'if more people attended' debate, the average attendance for 2010/2011 was 4392.

 

The average so far this season is 4723 after 12 games. Of the ten league games we have left at home, I would say the Preston game is the only dead cert for an attendance over 5000, with Charlton and Tranmere games maybe having half a chance of 4500. So there is a good chance that despite the increased number of away fans paying through the turnstiles this season, a few sub 3000 attendances club could still see the average attendance drop below 4392.

There's a good chance Charlton's game at our place could be the one to see them promoted/champions so I'd expect a good following from them.

[Forte_Baby]

Agree wit Stevie about Charlton being promoted as shown in there Prem days never had the biggest away support. Think myself they should keep Cat games but just have Two. MAKE CAT A £21, get rid of CAT B and make Cat C £16.

[Lookers_Carl]

Agree wit Stevie about Charlton being promoted as shown in there Prem days never had the biggest away support. Think myself they should keep Cat games but just have Two. MAKE CAT A £21, get rid of CAT B and make Cat C £16.

 

I think that would be too much of a gap though and would almost certainly result in the club losing money. It wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if the club scrapped Cat C completely and just had Cat A and Cat B next season at the same prices as they are now.

[beag_teeets]

Agree wit Stevie about Charlton being promoted as shown in there Prem days never had the biggest away support. Think myself they should keep Cat games but just have Two. MAKE CAT A £21, get rid of CAT B and make Cat C £16.

 

 

Or get rid of cat C and make cat B £16.

 

Small point but if we had a cat A & C people would wonder what cat B was.

[Markoasis]

Or get rid of cat C and make cat B £16.

 

Small point but if we had a cat A & C people would wonder what cat B was.

 

We have different category games now ??? When did this happen ?

[opinions4u]

I could see Cat C disappearing and having 12 x A and 11 X B.

[TheBigDog]

We have different category games now ??? When did this happen ?

This season

Category 'A': Charlton Athletic, Huddersfield Town, Rochdale, Sheffield Wednesday, Chesterfield, Sheffield United, Preston North End, Bury.

Category 'B': Milton Keynes Dons, Colchester United, Carlisle United, Hartlepool United, Walsall, Notts County, Scunthorpe United, Tranmere Rovers.

Category 'C': Stevenage Borough, AFC Bournemouth, Leyton Orient, Exeter City, Brentford, Yeovil Town, Wycombe Wanderers.

[laticsrblue]

I would argue that Latics lose between £3.50 and £7 from me from most games as they don't have a bar in the Chaddy End. I am sure there are numerous ways our bad facilities make us lose out.

 

I'm pretty sure Latics don't make any money from the sale of individual pints or pies, they sell the right to a catering company, who gamble on not having too many pies left over at the end of a game or more likely, not having enough to meet demand . I suppose a bar in the Chaddy would add to the coffers from the catering company but maybe it would add to the cost of stewarding and policing the Chaddy.

An ideal problem for Mr Joy to sort out I think.

[ctblue]

I would say, without getting into the 'well maybe if people attended more' debate, the following will have contributed greatly.

 

1) Substantial drop in the average gate since 2008/2009, and continual decline of home support (which this season has been compensated by vastly increased away support due to the increased amount of local teams or teams with large followings in this division), compared with a less substantial (but still substantial) drop in the wage bill since then.

 

2) Boundary Park maintenance costs. As Ackey said in a previous thread, we will be extremely fortunate to get another decade out of the current main stand, and chaddy has another 15. My estimates would be lower than that, but the maintenance costs are only going to go up. I personally think the current maintenance costs for Boundary Park will account for at least 50% of this 1 million, but that is just based on wild guesswork and I don't have much to go on apart from previous maintenance costs quoted by Simon Corney.

 

Is there any evidence of maintenance of any kind at bp? I haven't noticed any let alone half a million's worth.

[Chorlton_Latic]

Again, without getting into the 'if more people attended' debate, the average attendance for 2010/2011 was 4392.

 

The average so far this season is 4723 after 12 games. Of the ten league games we have left at home, I would say the Preston game is the only dead cert for an attendance over 5000, with Charlton and Tranmere games maybe having half a chance of 4500. So there is a good chance that despite the increased number of away fans paying through the turnstiles this season, a few sub 3000 attendances club could still see the average attendance drop below 4392.

 

If things don't progress with the new stand, I am not counting out the possibility of Latics playing their home games at Gigg Lane in 2-3 seasons time.

 

To be totally honest Carl, if PNE are languishing in mid-table obscurity, I'd only expect them to bring between 1,000-1,200 fans like Wednesday last March. £23 for a dead rubber game after a sh*t season etc.

 

We will get a few extra on the gate with it being a local game, but at present, - as depressing as this is - I can see even this fixture being a below 5,000 attendance.

[Lookers_Carl]

To be totally honest Carl, if PNE are languishing in mid-table obscurity, I'd only expect them to bring between 1,000-1,200 fans like Wednesday last March. £23 for a dead rubber game after a sh*t season etc.

 

We will get a few extra on the gate with it being a local game, but at present, - as depressing as this is - I can see even this fixture being a below 5,000 attendance.

 

I dunno they have always brought a good following.

 

If they were mid table and it was a tuesday night, then maybe, but I think with it being on a saturday afternoon they will bring at least 1500.

[GlossopLatic]

Is there any evidence of maintenance of any kind at bp? I haven't noticed any let alone half a million's worth.

 

They were quoted about 2 season ago around the time of the project for failsworth as being around £450,000 at the same time I read an article in WSC a bout Bradford city who's 28,000 stadium was costing them around £900,000 a year in mainataence costs and you would imagine the cost of maintaing the white elephant known as the reynolds arena has been a contributing to Darlingtons problems.

 

The club does I believe make a small profit on the pies and bovrils at HT but the money they will make on that will be minimal.

[Lookers_Carl]

They were quoted about 2 season ago around the time of the project for failsworth as being around £450,000 at the same time I read an article in WSC a bout Bradford city who's 28,000 stadium was costing them around £900,000 a year in mainataence costs and you would imagine the cost of maintaing the white elephant known as the reynolds arena has been a contributing to Darlingtons problems.

 

The club does I believe make a small profit on the pies and bovrils at HT but the money they will make on that will be minimal.

 

I think that is because the catering is outsourced, so the club literally just take a percentage of their takings, and wont have to worry about excess stock/paying wages etc.

[Tommy_Fent]

They were quoted about 2 season ago around the time of the project for failsworth as being around £450,000 at the same time I read an article in WSC a bout Bradford city who's 28,000 stadium was costing them around £900,000 a year in mainataence costs and you would imagine the cost of maintaing the white elephant known as the reynolds arena has been a contributing to Darlingtons problems.

 

The club does I believe make a small profit on the pies and bovrils at HT but the money they will make on that will be minimal.

 

At least half of is to pay rent to their former chairman

[GlossopLatic]

I think that is because the catering is outsourced, so the club literally just take a percentage of their takings, and wont have to worry about excess stock/paying wages etc.

 

It is but we will have to make a contribution to that Azzure won't pick up all the expenses

[JohnnyPimp]

Les Parry was in the studio and he said Trannies break even and this year made a small profit (I guess the sale of Dale Jennings helped).

 

How come we had a money spinning tie at Liverpool and even if we got to Wembley, are we expecting to still lose £500k???

 

I understand the difference between us and PNE in terms of size and ambition, but surely Tranmere are similar to us albeit they get slightly more fans to home matches???

 

A Tranmere fan at work tells me that their budget is around £900k which if I'm not mistaken, is quite a chunk smaller than ours.

[al_bro]

Agree wit Stevie about Charlton being promoted as shown in there Prem days never had the biggest away support. Think myself they should keep Cat games but just have Two. MAKE CAT A £21, get rid of CAT B and make Cat C £16.

If we hadn't had categories this season and charged £23 for all games would we really have had fewer people through the gate for the likes of Exeter? I doubt it very much. People go to these games because they support the club, not because it's a few quid cheaper.