opinions4u Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Perhaps then the problem lies with those whose backs are up simply because I "had a go at" or criticised a player for something specific Well it was an odd criticism. This guy has demonstrated far more effort and energy in the last three games than anybody else. If he'd been sluggish then fasting could be offered up as an explanation. But the evidence doesn't stack up. Which is why others have suggested that there's some sort of agenda to what you're trying to get across. Assuming there isn't, I have no idea why a point needed making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ritchie Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 A muslim's diet is a lot more healthy than your average atheist. I'm sure his body can cope with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 A muslim's diet is a lot more healthy than your average atheist. I'm sure his body can cope with it. To be honest, it's one less place in the team for a Protestant, so he can eat what he likes for all I care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Well it was an odd criticism. This guy has demonstrated far more effort and energy in the last three games than anybody else. If he'd been sluggish then fasting could be offered up as an explanation. But the evidence doesn't stack up. Which is why others have suggested that there's some sort of agenda to what you're trying to get across. Assuming there isn't, I have no idea why a point needed making. The point was clear, the justification I gave for it was clear, and I don't care to keep repeating it. If you don't agree with it then that's fine. You finding it odd, or others finding it odd just means that you are in the "I don't agree with it" camp. For you to say that finding it odd, after I have gone to great lengths to explain my reasons and motivations, is valid justification for anyone thinking that I have an agenda, is a complete non sequitur. By the way, I realise that some of you love to use the line of "M'Changama was one of our best players", and I have been reluctant to even discuss that point since it is so utterly irrelevant to points I have made on this thread (please don't anyone make me explain why AGAIN - just read what I have already said). But he fasted for two competitive games. I saw the Sheff Wednesday one and I remember thinking how badly he played throughout (admittedly out of position) even when everyone else was playing well early on. Then against MK Dons, the reports suggest that everyone played gash. So what the hell are you guys even talking about? Edited August 29, 2012 by PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Corporal Jones????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 The point was clear, the justification I gave for it was clear, and I don't care to keep repeating it. If you don't agree with it then that's fine. You finding it odd, or others finding it odd just means that you are in the "I don't agree with it" camp. For you to say that finding it odd, after I have gone to great lengths to explain my reasons and motivations, is valid justification for anyone thinking that I have an agenda, is a complete non sequitur. By the way, I realise that some of you love to use the line of "M'Changama was one of our best players", and I have been reluctant to even discuss that point since it is so utterly irrelevant to points I have made on this thread (please don't anyone make me explain why AGAIN - just read what I have already said). But he fasted for two competitive games. I saw the Sheff Wednesday one and I remember thinking how badly he played throughout (admittedly out of position) even when everyone else was playing well early on. Then against MK Dons, the reports suggest that everyone played gash. So what the hell are you guys even talking about? Listen: you said originally that M'Changama had somehow let people down by fasting. A lot of people don't agree. One reason why they don't agree that he let people down is that he was on of our best players. Another reason is they respect the man's creed. Whether not fasting could have made him a better player is debatable. The long-term consequences of fasting (on, for instance, a career) are negligible, and no one really cares anyway. You withdrew your sympathy for him even though he never asked for any and no one has asked for any on his behalf. This was a deeply strange thing to do, and it led people to think you had an agenda. Some thought this was an anti-religion agenda, or a pro-atheism agenda, or even an Islamaphobia agenda. I think you're anti-religious and pro-atheistical, but I'll let you off Islamaphobia. Either way, whatever fad you're into, you lost this one, and lost it quite badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 Whether not fasting could have made him a better player is debatable. Which is why I put it up for debate. You withdrew your sympathy for him even though he never asked for any and no one has asked for any on his behalf. How many times do I have to say this? When did I say that he DID ask my sympathy? Perhaps my wording was imperfect. It might be more accurate to say that he loses my support. Either way I have never said he asked for anything. This was a deeply strange thing to do, and it led people to think you had an agenda. Then they lack basic logical or comprehension skills. I have neither stated or implied an agenda, and to accuse me of one out of sheer unqualified guesswork lacks all integrity. You don't know me. Stop acting as if you do. Some thought this was an anti-religion agenda, or a pro-atheism agenda, or even an Islamaphobia agenda. I think you're anti-religious and pro-atheistical, but I'll let you off Islamaphobia. Either way, whatever fad you're into, you lost this one, and lost it quite badly. I don't care whether I "lost" the honest part of the debate (with those who cared to do it properly). When you have open conversation it should never be about winning or losing. That is not a healthy way to look at it. It's about exposure to different ideas, and the reasoning behind those ideas. As far as the childish insults and accusations, of which you are obviously a part, to say that I "lost" just because you all persist on insisting that I have a prejudicial agenda, please grow the fook up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisbrogan Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Changy doesn't need carbs. He gets his energy via photosynthesis and by people discussing him on the internet. Edited August 29, 2012 by Twisbrogan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 How does Furman cope with Saturday matches? Or get to them in fact? Was Colbeck's weird inability to change direction when faced by a defender caused by his genetic tendency to take long strides so as to save shoe leather? Has Silky Phil ever trained a Jehovah, or refused on the grounds that they might need blood in case of a training injury? Are Methodists not conducive to team morale as they would rather sit around singing low key hymns and taking pride in not being pissed rather than team bonding? Are some atheists so up there own arse that they aren't condusive to many aspects of social discussion because they can't shut the :censored: up about it? Are all Scientologists gay, or just the Hollywood ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Which is why I put it up for debate. And lost. When did I say that he DID ask my sympathy? You said he'd lost your sympathy and/or support. This implies that your sympathy and/or support was required in the first place. It isn't. Then they lack basic logical or comprehension skills. Sure they do. It's them, isn't it? Not you. I have neither stated or implied an agenda, and to accuse me of one out of sheer unqualified guesswork lacks all integrity. You don't know me. Stop acting as if you do. Stop ripping off lines from disco dancing songs. Two can play that game. When you have open conversation it should never be about winning or losing. When you begin an open conversation by saying that someone who people like and rate has been irresponsible and unprofessional, and that they've let the fans and the team down, you've got to expect something back. It's about exposure to different ideas, and the reasoning behind those ideas. Your ideas, in so far as they weren't a load of ill-informed and fairly intolerant rubbish, were not different as in original; they were different as in obviously stinking. As far as the childish insults and accusations, of which you are obviously a part, to say that I "lost" just because you all persist on insisting that I have a prejudicial agenda, please grow the fook up. You lost because your point of view is pure dross, not because people insisted you had an agenda. The only time I got flippant was when you did the persecuted heretic bit. As for the growing the fook up, I'd rather rot in hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 Has Silky Phil ever trained a Jehovah, or refused on the grounds that they might need blood in case of a training injury? That would be quite a training injury. And no I haven't. Only time i'm sure that i've met one was at my doorstep and they didn't even try to come in. They just gave me a flyer and an asked me to come to their church. I felt quite insulted. Are some atheists so up there own arse that they aren't condusive to many aspects of social discussion because they can't shut the :censored: up about it? You personally encountered atheists who won't stop talking about their lack of theism? I find that hard to believe. Are all Scientologists gay, or just the Hollywood ones? Maybe the Scientologists should see a psychiatrist about their gayness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) And lost. Grow up You said he'd lost your sympathy and/or support. This implies that your sympathy and/or support was required in the first place. It was a general comment about not having "sympathy" for any athlete in his situation. It does not imply a thing about anyone requiring anything. The implication is in your head. Jesus Christ you are being absurdly obtuse. When you begin an open conversation by saying that someone who people like and rate has been irresponsible and unprofessional, and that they've let the fans and the team down, you've got to expect something back. Yeah. I expect people to act like adults. Your ideas, in so far as they weren't a load of ill-informed and fairly intolerant rubbish, were not different as in original; they were different as in obviously stinking. Obvious to you because you hold a counter opinion. But you, and a few others, lack the maturity to address the points being made without attacking the man who makes them, based upon your own preconceptions. You lost because your point of view is pure dross, not because people insisted you had an agenda. But i've told you that there is no winning or losing within an honest discussion. I find it strange that you want to keep insisting that their should be a victor, and of course it has to be you and the people you agree with. The only time I got flippant was when you did the persecuted heretic bit. Persecuted heretic? Oh you mean I complain that people are throwing unqualified insults at me, so you thought you'd excuse their behaviour and join in too? As for the growing the fook up, I'd rather rot in hell. Says it all Edited August 29, 2012 by PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 You personally encountered atheists who won't stop talking about their lack of theism? I find that hard to believe. Just once in a while, here and there. I can agree with them, but after a while just wish they'd pipe down and talk about the weather, or something, after a few years or so. I know several fanatical Godbothers who I didn't even pick for months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 But just for Phil. Mr TH is wrong about God as well. Religious belief has to be treated as a lifestyle choice, not a given. Otherwise we are in a crazy minefield of special dispensations, and clear wrongness has an excuse. But Mr TH only talked about it in terms of a footballers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Mr TH is wrong. Bet the twunt doesn't put that in his sig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Bet the twunt doesn't put that in his sig. Mr Tulsehill uses a standardised, corporate, non-universal and non-applicable form of grammar well, and in that usage I agree with him 100% Don't say I am cruel to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 But just for Phil. Mr TH is wrong about God as well. Religious belief has to be treated as a lifestyle choice, not a given. Otherwise we are in a crazy minefield of special dispensations, and clear wrongness has an excuse. But Mr TH only talked about it in terms of a footballers. Explain "lifestyle choice". Do you find it difficult to accept the concept of religious belief? Bet the twunt doesn't put that in his sig. I would if it was correct. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 The thing is Phil , MChango decided to fast, and as ramadan is one of the five pillars of his religion (Islam), then that's up to him, and quite rightly the club have respected his wishes, The question should have been, Should Dickov play someone who's been fasting knowing that fasting may well be linked with under performing, From the very few accounts who have replied in this thread they seem to think it did not, and took issue with your reasoning as they seem to think he was one of the better players during the month. Those who bothered voting MOTM for all three league and one cup game, suggests he was pretty good in two and not in the other two. He may well not have played to his full potential, but you could say that about most of the playing squad, wether they fasted or not. http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=39381&mode=show&st= Stevenage 9 votes 2nd http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=39319&mode=show&st= Walsall = 13 votes 2nd http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=39318&mode=show&st= MK dons = 0 votes null http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=39317&mode=show&st= Sheff Wed 1 votes 5th An interesting Topic all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Wow, each to their own and as fasting is clearly not a problem - such highbrow trolling. Never has atheism been seen to be so esoterical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Explain "lifestyle choice". Do you find it difficult to accept the concept of religious belief? The best example would be blasphemy - many Christians and Muslims believe that they should be prevented from offence against their beliefs in a way that I don't need to be about mine, because they believe that their beliefs are on a higher level to mine. In fact my beliefs are on a higher level than theirs, but I think it's up to me to learn how to deal with it when they think otherwise. If I choose to believe in something that's my choice, it shouldn't impinge on the rights of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 Wow, each to their own and as fasting is clearly not a problem - such highbrow trolling. Never has atheism been seen to be so esoterical. Fasting is clearly not a problem? Must be why Olympic athletes were postponing their fasting for later in the year then. What the has this got to do with Atheism, apart from the fact that I am one? Have you even read this this thread and my objections to the kind of comments you just made, or are YOU just trolling with YOUR high brow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Do Trolls fast? When I was a lad trolls were Scandinavian mythical creatures. There were fields round here. Is this topic ever going to become relevant to Latics again? Edited August 30, 2012 by LaticsPete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I wonder if the referees used to check Harpal Singh to see if he was carrying a sword under his shinpad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) The thing is Phil , MChango decided to fast, and as ramadan is one of the five pillars of his religion (Islam), then that's up to him, and quite rightly the club have respected his wishes, The question should have been, Should Dickov play someone who's been fasting knowing that fasting may well be linked with under performing, From the very few accounts who have replied in this thread they seem to think it did not, and took issue with your reasoning as they seem to think he was one of the better players during the month. Those who bothered voting MOTM for all three league and one cup game, suggests he was pretty good in two and not in the other two. He may well not have played to his full potential, but you could say that about most of the playing squad, wether they fasted or not. http://www.owtb.co.u...1&mode=show&st= Stevenage 9 votes 2nd http://www.owtb.co.u...9&mode=show&st= Walsall = 13 votes 2nd http://www.owtb.co.u...8&mode=show&st= MK dons = 0 votes null http://www.owtb.co.u...7&mode=show&st= Sheff Wed 1 votes 5th An interesting Topic all the same. a ) Didn't he fast for only Sheff Wed and MK Dons, and for both those matches he was garbage? b ) Again it's an irrelevance to my points. As you say, it's about playing to potential. c ) give me hard evidence that another player isn't preparing for any matches sufficiently to play to his potential (such getting drunk the night before a game) and i'll happily discuss the rights and wrongs of his conduct too. Edited August 30, 2012 by PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Fasting is clearly not a problem? Must be why Olympic athletes were postponing their fasting for later in the year then. What the has this got to do with Atheism, apart from the fact that I am one? Have you even read this this thread and my objections to the kind of comments you just made, or are YOU just trolling with YOUR high brow? If you had 1 chance in 4 years to perform at your best for the highest prize in your sport, the losses, which in terms of eating might be marginal, but are likely to be more significant for drinking, wouldn't be worth it. Especially when you can make up any lost days later in the year. What you haven't shown is any evidence that by getting his calorie consumption outside the hours of daylight effected Youseff's performance. Everyone else has basically said he played well so are not bothered by it. Marathon runners will often not eat before they run, instead opting to have a lot of carbohydrates the day before. If Youseff had a lot of carbs for breakfast whilst training and then managed to train all day he could still have some energy left at the end of training to last him through to his evening meal. As he probably would have been tired due to having gotten up early to eat I wouldn't mind betting he had a sleep after training anyway. As has already been said he didn't fast against Milton Keynes and when we played Wednesday it was dark for a lot of the game so he could eat/drink slightly normally. Lots of people don't eat lunch as they don't have time or can't afford it, they still manage to function. Where is your evidence that by getting your calorie intake in 2 big meals as opposed to 3/4 meals in a day affects athletic performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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