jsslatic Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I'm on the fence. In a vacuum, in, all day long. On the other hand, one of the reasons I enjoy supporting Latics is the social side, discussing matches, etc, and reading others' thoughts on here (previously on jklatics), on twitter, on Facebook, in the stands, in the pub before and after matches. On these, I'm finding less and less common ground at the moment, and think a change of manager 'may' ease my blood pressure at reading and hearing the misery people are revelling in spreading. At least for a week or so, until people find another scapegoat at which to vent their disappointment at us not being massive. Hmmm. On that basis, that's no respite. Still in! Stability might work. Nowt else that is feasible/likely has. The thing is approximately 40% fans still want the guy in, and that's in the aftermath of a loss when as Rummy alluded to above, it's not the fairest time to put something up. If it had gone up tomorrow morning I dare say it would be even closer. Booing is louder than cheering. Nobody (or very few) start a new thread/make a facebook post/tweet to show that they're sticking by the manager. Those who want him in (who are still a bloody decent proportion) just don't bleat on about it all the time. Most of it's the same every time - 2 wins in 16, next week 17, next 18, next 19 etc as if it's brand new information. Quite frankly it's boring and after a while those who back the manager (I'd imagine including yourself maddog) can't be bothered to argue anymore and just stick to upboating the one who can be bothered to post with a bit of perspective. If SC sacks PD now he'll evidently do it without the backing of a number of supporters. For whatever reason, a lot of us like the bloke. A lot also recognise that for the quality about and can afford (how are Bury getting on looking for a manager?) we're much better off sticking with the bloke we've got. There's certainly signs of progression given the apparent performance v Notts and the one I witnessed on Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshgaz Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Be interesting to see how many of the people who want him in actually attend games on a regular basis. In fact even the odd game. Many on here don't even manage that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 The thing is approximately 40% fans still want the guy in, and that's in the aftermath of a loss when as Rummy alluded to above, it's not the fairest time to put something up. If it had gone up tomorrow morning I dare say it would be even closer. Booing is louder than cheering. Nobody (or very few) start a new thread/make a facebook post/tweet to show that they're sticking by the manager. Those who want him in (who are still a bloody decent proportion) just don't bleat on about it all the time. Most of it's the same every time - 2 wins in 16, next week 17, next 18, next 19 etc as if it's brand new information. Quite frankly it's boring and after a while those who back the manager (I'd imagine including yourself maddog) can't be bothered to argue anymore and just stick to upboating the one who can be bothered to post with a bit of perspective. If SC sacks PD now he'll evidently do it without the backing of a number of supporters. For whatever reason, a lot of us like the bloke. A lot also recognise that for the quality about and can afford (how are Bury getting on looking for a manager?) we're much better off sticking with the bloke we've got. There's certainly signs of progression given the apparent performance v Notts and the one I witnessed on Tuesday. I presume you're talking about the 2nd half ?.......There's been far too many performances like what we offered in the first half, without the equaliser and the little 5 -10 min sortee, then that first half was dire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I'm in the 'In' Camp. I think we have seen improvement since the first couple of home games this season - Notts County and Scunthorpe games had plenty of positives to take away and everyone seemed to be looking up. One defeat later and we're all amazingly negative and cynical again. Brentford have always been our bogey team away from home and i don't even remember us winning there more than once. Dickov, although tactically lacking, still has the potential to turn this around, in my opinion anyway - sacking him now isn't going to get us anywhere, realistically he should be given another 3 games. That would leave.. Coventry - Not expecting miracles against a side that came down, but then again they've had a bad start to which we should add to. Crewe - Seem to have a good manager and always have a good team ethic, but again, i would expect a win. Preston - Westley, that's all you need to know, we have to beat Preston for that reason alone. 3 games that in my opinion, on our day, we could go and win. It should be set out to Dickov that there should be a minimum of 6 points from the next 3 games for him to keep his job, otherwise i'll sign his P45 myself. So, i'm saying in for now, but i am growing in frustration and anger and i can't see him lasting long if this continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I presume you're talking about the 2nd half ?.......There's been far too many performances like what we offered in the first half, without the equaliser and the little 5 -10 min sortee, then that first half was dire! Indeed the second half. We played well. Dickov made substitutions and tactical changes and it worked. I just don't understand how the 'far too many performances' argument can be run at the same time as 'he's not learning' argument. There are clear signs he's learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Indeed the second half. We played well. Dickov made substitutions and tactical changes and it worked. I just don't understand how the 'far too many performances' argument can be run at the same time as 'he's not learning' argument. There are clear signs he's learning. Yes, he's learning to some extent by his substitutions, but what about his side not competing in the opening half of both those games? Against notts we created diddly squat in the first half and against scunthorpe were lucky not to be chasing a deficit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc-latics Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I'm in the 'In' Camp. I think we have seen improvement since the first couple of home games this season - Notts County and Scunthorpe games had plenty of positives to take away and everyone seemed to be looking up. One defeat later and we're all amazingly negative and cynical again. Brentford have always been our bogey team away from home and i don't even remember us winning there more than once. Dickov, although tactically lacking, still has the potential to turn this around, in my opinion anyway - sacking him now isn't going to get us anywhere, realistically he should be given another 3 games. That would leave.. Coventry - Not expecting miracles against a side that came down, but then again they've had a bad start to which we should add to. Crewe - Seem to have a good manager and always have a good team ethic, but again, i would expect a win. Preston - Westley, that's all you need to know, we have to beat Preston for that reason alone. 3 games that in my opinion, on our day, we could go and win. It should be set out to Dickov that there should be a minimum of 6 points from the next 3 games for him to keep his job, otherwise i'll sign his P45 myself. So, i'm saying in for now, but i am growing in frustration and anger and i can't see him lasting long if this continues. that's fair, and if Corney presented that to Dickov and said, 'get your act together', he could have no arguments. i'd say most fans like him, but all love the club and Dickov will probably be sent on his way before the end of the season for the good of the club, it'll be a shame, but the club will come first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Yes, he's learning to some extent by his substitutions, but what about his side not competing in the opening half of both those games? Against notts we created diddly squat in the first half and against scunthorpe were lucky not to be chasing a deficit. It's obviously not all sunshine and light. But there are signs he's heading the right way (and not towards the door before someone says ). I am simply of the opinion that given there is evidence he is improving, he should be given the time that most said he should have had (when he first came, as in three years) to show what he can do. That to me makes far more sense than giving up, starting again with a new bloke, and starting from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLatics Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 The thing is approximately 40% fans still want the guy in, and that's in the aftermath of a loss when as Rummy alluded to above, it's not the fairest time to put something up. If it had gone up tomorrow morning I dare say it would be even closer. Booing is louder than cheering. Nobody (or very few) start a new thread/make a facebook post/tweet to show that they're sticking by the manager. Those who want him in (who are still a bloody decent proportion) just don't bleat on about it all the time. Most of it's the same every time - 2 wins in 16, next week 17, next 18, next 19 etc as if it's brand new information. Quite frankly it's boring and after a while those who back the manager (I'd imagine including yourself maddog) can't be bothered to argue anymore and just stick to upboating the one who can be bothered to post with a bit of perspective. If SC sacks PD now he'll evidently do it without the backing of a number of supporters. For whatever reason, a lot of us like the bloke. A lot also recognise that for the quality about and can afford (how are Bury getting on looking for a manager?) we're much better off sticking with the bloke we've got. There's certainly signs of progression given the apparent performance v Notts and the one I witnessed on Tuesday. How many games have you attended this season? Or last, for that matter? I recall you said on Tuesday that that was your first this term. I do think it's easier to turn a blind eye if you aren't there. Having to watch 90 minutes every week for the past 18 months has been as difficult a time as I've experienced since I've supported this club. The players we have are good players. Some have played at a higher level and some have been linked to a higher level. This idea that this squad is poor and that money hasn't been spent to assemble is one that bores me. Those that criticise Dickov may irritate you - well, their arguments - but that sorta pro-Dickov stuff doesn't wash with me. It's actually foundation-less. I'd love to shape things like you do but when you look at the basic facts on offer he hasn't a leg to stand on. His performance as the manager of this football club doesn't deserve praise. He deserves patience, and given the time he has had with the results he's produced he's done well to fend off what I generally believe is a restless, quickly irritated crowd, but when things don't change after so many games questions must be asked. New players but still few goals and victories. Yes, he has Derbyshire and Baxter, and yes, despite my dwindling support, I would like to at least see a little bit more, but how much time does he expect to receive? He's a daft, foolish bloke if he expects the fans to sit idly by as he stumbled his way through the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLatics Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 It's obviously not all sunshine and light. But there are signs he's heading the right way (and not towards the door before someone says ). I am simply of the opinion that given there is evidence he is improving, he should be given the time that most said he should have had (when he first came, as in three years) to show what he can do. That to me makes far more sense than giving up, starting again with a new bloke, and starting from scratch. What is this evidence? He's added players to his arsenal so the fact he can turn around to meet players older than 18 to throw on so him making a substitution is him improving? I was taken in by the Notts County performances, but since then what is there? We can't ignore that first half against Scunthorpe, surely? The second half was hardly blindingly superb. And then there's today, which was drab. This season we've recorded one victory in nine. We haven't won a game since we made three extra signings. What is this evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 It's obviously not all sunshine and light. But there are signs he's heading the right way (and not towards the door before someone says ). I am simply of the opinion that given there is evidence he is improving, he should be given the time that most said he should have had (when he first came, as in three years) to show what he can do. That to me makes far more sense than giving up, starting again with a new bloke, and starting from scratch. I hear you, and up until lately, was of the same opinion as yourself. I think i've just lost patience and have seen too many insipid performances followed by promises of ' it won't happen again etc. I would be delighted if PD changed things around and became a success.......i'm not overly confident though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 What is this evidence? He's added players to his arsenal so the fact he can turn around to meet players older than 18 to throw on so him making a substitution is him improving? I was taken in by the Notts County performances, but since then what is there? We can't ignore that first half against Scunthorpe, surely? The second half was hardly blindingly superb. And then there's today, which was drab. This season we've recorded one victory in nine. We haven't won a game since we made three extra signings. What is this evidence? It was said he makes the wrong changes. That when he does make changes, he gets the formation wrong. But on Tuesday night he changed the formation, brought on Jose and Simmo and we made more chances. Croft should have stuck that in at the end and if he'd done so then people would have no doubt been discussing turning a corner. There's no need to respond in full to the longer post as needless to say, we evidently disagree. Tuesday was my first game of the season, how many I went to last year I'm not sure without getting out a fixture list but a fair few. Hats off to those who do go every week, quite frankly it's not really for me, and yes there is a view that says they see it every week so have more of an idea as to what it's like. On the other side, those who still go relatively regularly but more sporadically also have a decent view as to longer term changes. Most on here wanting PD out say this year has been a continuation of last and nothing has changed. Many of them also say Tuesday night was bobbins. Well from where I was sat, Tuesday night was far far better than much of what was served up than, say, in the corresponding fixture last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLatics Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 It was said he makes the wrong changes. That when he does make changes, he gets the formation wrong. But on Tuesday night he changed the formation, brought on Jose and Simmo and we made more chances. Croft should have stuck that in at the end and if he'd done so then people would have no doubt been discussing turning a corner. There's no need to respond in full to the longer post as needless to say, we evidently disagree. Tuesday was my first game of the season, how many I went to last year I'm not sure without getting out a fixture list but a fair few. Hats off to those who do go every week, quite frankly it's not really for me, and yes there is a view that says they see it every week so have more of an idea as to what it's like. On the other side, those who still go relatively regularly but more sporadically also have a decent view as to longer term changes. Most on here wanting PD out say this year has been a continuation of last and nothing has changed. Many of them also say Tuesday night was bobbins. Well from where I was sat, Tuesday night was far far better than much of what was served up than, say, in the corresponding fixture last season. Ok, but explain today. We seemingly had a platform to build upon in terms of performances. We had three games unbeaten before today. Where is the momentum and consistency? He may have swapped things about but only after A. being out-played in the first half and B. realising his words during the break had, yet again, absolutely no effect, Today we return to long periods of flat football. There seems to be no clear aim to our movement as a club. We just stutter to each game, perhaps get a point, then fall into the next match. An improving team improve. This is League One, not the Premier League. In the Premier League, an outclassed club, such as Stoke and Fulham, improve season by season. In League One it isn't acceptable and nor can a manager be so foolish to believe he is entitled to a year to turn a result against a club like Scunthorpe from a loss to a unconvincing draw, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Heck C-Beck Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 If he does go, how long does the new guy get? 3 years? What if the results don't improve? I'm worried about how this season could end, really not sure if our team is as good as people think. I worry that with or without PD we could do very badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonesyOAFC Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) If he does go, how long does the new guy get? 3 years? What if the results don't improve? We sack him, hire another manager, hail him as the new messiah, then sack him after 2 seasons. And so on and so forth. I'll admit, my patience is starting to wear a bit with Dickov. But I still believe we should give him about 15 games (including the 7 league games we've had). If results still haven't improved, then we should begin to maybe consider a replacement. The fact that Dickov's replacement would all in probability be someone along lines of Aidy Boothroyd is surely enough of an incentive to give Dickov a chance? No manager with even an ounce of ambition will want to come to a club like Latics. Especially if he looks at the fate of his predecessors. Edit: Just checked, Boothroyd is currently in employment *wipes brow* Edited September 23, 2012 by JonesyOAFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 He's gone. His demeanour yesterday was that of Ronnie Moore at Bradford away. Albeit without the 3 pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel D Lenegan Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I know it has been said already, but I think PD is the man - but he needs some wise help and advice because he is in management terms very very inexperienced. Their is a famous saying that you cant polish a turd, and being honest, just like most of the clubs the size of Oldham are generally crap. We are very fortunate to have SC and his money because without this we would be even worse. So being manager of OAFC is never going to be easy, and even less so if the manager is inexperienced, and many fans accept this. I for 1 would support them if they played in the Oldham Sunday league, so my expectations are not high at all - dont get me wrong, I love the idea of playing in higher divisions than league 1. What I do want to see however is fight and commitment to the cause, from players who want to play for the club - not just for the money, and I believe this is what PD wants too, and by the way, when we play this way we also tend to play well which is a bonus. Footballers at OAFC level still believe that they are superstars and get well paid for it considering what jobs they would get outside football, so its this attitude which needs to change. So getting league 1 players who believe they are better than OAFC to put in a shift cannot be easy, even getting them to do the simple things seems almost impossible sometimes.. So we need players with a guts and capability as the backbone and a couple of gifted ones too if we can get them - which is what I think PD is trying to do - because to me this is the only way to survive. As fans we should back the decisions made by SC and PD but be clear on our expectations too. In simple terms, keep PD but get an experienced head alongside him, who is an Oldham supporter (someone like big Joe..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) Defo give PD up to game 15 in the league to get these new players in the right places playing a game that will suit said players. If the results and performances are the same ilk as to date then I would expect the hard word that he and his staff have 5 more games to turn it around. Using that 5 game period to look for another manager if required. Thoroughly likeable chap is PD and certainly seems to get good players into the football club. Great PR skills it would be a massive shame for the lad and the club if he can't turn this around. Is he trying to play prem/champ style football in the wrong league with players who are just short of that standard? maybe he is and needs to realise this. Edited September 23, 2012 by Lags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Interesting how the vote is slowly starting to even out! Last night still with a decentish sample size it was at approximately 70% out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killens_physio Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I all my years of supporting Latics this is the first season I turn up and thoroughly expect us to lose every week. A decent second half against Scunny on Tuesday disguised the fact that first half was as clueless as ive seen us since the Penney days. I have always backed PD but i really do believe that he has run out of ideas about how he can improve things. He has no experienced number 2 to bounce ideas off and frankly i dont think he is interested in other peoples ideas. In his words he has the best squad since he has been here, but the quality of football, attacking intent and overall crapness of the side is as bad if not worse most weeks than anything Penney's teams turned out! Sorry Paul, thanks for the few games where we played decent football, but find a new profession as i dont think being a manager suits you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Think he needs at least October, if results continue on the same patten then it's a pretty easy decision to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I wouldn't be counting the games against Wednesday and Chesterfield in his 10 games but even so I'd give him a bit longer. If we are still struggling in December and out of the FA cup then I'd be giving serious consideration to getting rid. At the moment any new manager can only bring in an additional 2 players on loan, and anyone out of contract. Whilst there are a few gems out there still a lot of the affordable, willing, decent temperament and good enough players have already been snapped up. That's why I say December as it will give us enough time to find a new manager, give the new manager enough time to assess the players we have and know where to improve before the January transfer window opens. Getting rid now is too early for me- hence why I said keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Think he needs at least October, if results continue on the same patten then it's a pretty easy decision to make. I think he'll get that. But the outcome is inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc-latics Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I don't think he'll last the season, but we should wait until a replacement that would improve us became available. Dickov will get us by, we're running at a point per game at the moment which would see us getting relegated by the end of the season, so get someone in when we can, but not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I don't think he'll last the season, but we should wait until a replacement that would improve us became available. Dickov will get us by, we're running at a point per game at the moment which would see us getting relegated by the end of the season, so get someone in when we can, but not now. That seems a bit contradictory.......we'll be relegated but don't replace him ? Results need to improve immediately imo for him to stay on. Coventry WILL be a big game, can you imagine the reaction if we get beat at home on saturday ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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