Ritchierich Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 No. I don't believe the fans were 100% innocent at the game and I have no great animus towards the police, who are being judged by today's standards when the reality of policing football then was vastly different. Let it lie. Liverpool fans will not be happy until someone accepts total blame, but not 1% of me believes that there was no reason for the gates being opened. That said, the poor sods at the front were totally innocent, and part of me wonders whether a sense of guilt drives some of the campaign. This is exactly the point which hardly anyone dares say. The poor fans at the front were killed by a combination of events which INCLUDED the behaviour of their fellow fans. All of us who went to football in those days know exactly how it could have happened and frankly, why the police might have reacted the way they did given the poisonous atmosphere that often existed back then. The big clubs have absolutely no consideration for the small clubs and many actively pursue our total destruction. We must be insane to be contemplating anything like this when Gerrard or Suarez could contribute more out of half a days wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I don't really see the point in arguing about whose fault Hillsborough was. If people still aren't willing to accept that it was the police's fault after the revelations of last year then they never will. As for the offer, after consideration, I don't agree with forcing donations. Charities are there for a reason; so that people can give their own money voluntarily to a cause that they feel passionate about. To make this 96p idea compulsory is just a tax to a large amount of fans, having seen the results of the poll. Ask me on the gate when I'm buying my ticket if I'd like to give the 96p and I will comply but make the charge obligatory and it takes the whole idea of charity away from the scheme. It makes it a corporate PR exercise which I feel strongly charity is not about. As for the argument about players wages being able to make more than we ever could I don't care for that, either. A charitable donation is a gesture of good will, it's not a competition for who has the most money and who can give more. If you want to give the 96p then I respect that and if you don't want to give the 96p then I respect that also. We all have an opinion which to an extent is our right but to make it forced is a breach of that really. Just please don't drag this board into another debate about the causes of the Hillsborough Disaster. This thread is about giving something to those who lost what can't be replaced, respect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I don't really see the point in arguing about whose fault Hillsborough was. If people still aren't willing to accept that it was the police's fault after the revelations of last year then they never will. As for the offer, after consideration, I don't agree with forcing donations. Charities are there for a reason; so that people can give their own money voluntarily to a cause that they feel passionate about. To make this 96p idea compulsory is just a tax to a large amount of fans, having seen the results of the poll. Ask me on the gate when I'm buying my ticket if I'd like to give the 96p and I will comply but make the charge obligatory and it takes the whole idea of charity away from the scheme. It makes it a corporate PR exercise which I feel strongly charity is not about. As for the argument about players wages being able to make more than we ever could I don't care for that, either. A charitable donation is a gesture of good will, it's not a competition for who has the most money and who can give more. If you want to give the 96p then I respect that and if you don't want to give the 96p then I respect that also. We all have an opinion which to an extent is our right but to make it forced is a breach of that really. Just please don't drag this board into another debate about the causes of the Hillsborough Disaster. This thread is about giving something to those who lost what can't be replaced, respect it. Well said, that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I echo a lot of the thoughts on here about the tragic events at Hillsborough and I'm pleased the families and friends of those lost are starting to receive the justice they deserve. However, I don't see how this is a monetary issue. The justice in my mind surely comes in the form of the truth about what happened. I've read the thread and if I were to donate I'd want to know what this money achieves. This Christmas the Hillsborough single sold 269,000 copies - a quick check shows it's for sale for between 59p and £2. So estimate of sales between £160,000 and £540,000. Whatever the figure it's a significant amount of money. I don't know how much of that went to support the cause but what purpose does this money serve? Following the Hillsborough disaster the landscape of football changed. Football stadiums were required to be all seater and much stricter regulations were implemented which, in my mind, means a tragedy of the same magnitude couldn't possibly occur again. So from a broad perspective, money doesn't need to be invested in additional safety. If the money goes to the families and those affected to reimburse genuine costs they've incurred or provide support then I probably would donate, but most registered charities publish their accounts and I can't find anything published in relation to the Hillsborough Justice Campaign. The closest I can find is the following website which states the goals and objectives: http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/aims.shtm This makes me think it's not a registered charity with the Charity Commission? Personally I believe many of those aims have now been achieved and the publicity the campaign has received recently has also brought with it other avenues of funding (eg. Government support). I have found one registered charity called 'For Justice' http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1131537&SubsidiaryNumber=0. But this hasn't spent the £460 donations it received in the 2011 financial year - what use would there be for a huge boost in additional funding? I suppose what I'm saying is I can find charities which I believe will achieve more via funding than the jft96. By all means lets show our support, but lets think of something more fitting to remember the 96 people who lost their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I echo a lot of the thoughts on here about the tragic events at Hillsborough and I'm pleased the families and friends of those lost are starting to receive the justice they deserve. However, I don't see how this is a monetary issue. The justice in my mind surely comes in the form of the truth about what happened. I've read the thread and if I were to donate I'd want to know what this money achieves. This Christmas the Hillsborough single sold 269,000 copies - a quick check shows it's for sale for between 59p and £2. So estimate of sales between £160,000 and £540,000. Whatever the figure it's a significant amount of money. I don't know how much of that went to support the cause but what purpose does this money serve? Following the Hillsborough disaster the landscape of football changed. Football stadiums were required to be all seater and much stricter regulations were implemented which, in my mind, means a tragedy of the same magnitude couldn't possibly occur again. So from a broad perspective, money doesn't need to be invested in additional safety. If the money goes to the families and those affected to reimburse genuine costs they've incurred or provide support then I probably would donate, but most registered charities publish their accounts and I can't find anything published in relation to the Hillsborough Justice Campaign. The closest I can find is the following website which states the goals and objectives: http://www.contrast....rough/aims.shtm This makes me think it's not a registered charity with the Charity Commission? Personally I believe many of those aims have now been achieved and the publicity the campaign has received recently has also brought with it other avenues of funding (eg. Government support). I have found one registered charity called 'For Justice' http://www.charity-c...idiaryNumber=0. But this hasn't spent the £460 donations it received in the 2011 financial year - what use would there be for a huge boost in additional funding? I suppose what I'm saying is I can find charities which I believe will achieve more via funding than the jft96. By all means lets show our support, but lets think of something more fitting to remember the 96 people who lost their lives. Good points here. I used my silky skills and found out the money raised by the Hillsborough Single have been donated to Liverpool Charity and Voluntary Sector (charity number: 223485) http://www.lcvs.org.uk/ LCVS | United Way is a registered charity that aims to advance the common good through mobilising and equipping individuals and groups for voluntary action and charitable giving. Our strategic intent is to bring together people and organisations who have the passion, expertise and resources needed to get things done - helping to improve communities and individual lives in lasting and measurable ways. The approach in all LCVS services is grounded in our core belief that individual and group voluntary action, independent of the state and motivated for public benefit rather than profit, is the basis for a strong and healthy civil society. Since 1909, we have been the strategic support organisation for donors and the non-profit sector in Liverpool and one of the largest distributors of funds in the North West of England. Last year our community of donors gave over £6.4 million to good causes in UK and overseas and we have £24 million of charitable funds invested on behalf of donors. LCVS | United Way is the operating name of Liverpool Charity and Voluntary Services. ----------------------------------------------------- Therefore, it seems to me the charity single isn't actually raising money for the Hillsborough families or anything Hillsborough related, but just for a Liverpool based charity. If this is the case, i'm out. I'd prefer us to raise money for something more locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 £20.96 seems a bit cheap. Assuming libpool get the whole RRE, I would price the game at £22.96 for us and £25.96 for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveoafc77 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 If you would like to make a donation then make one. Why force people to contribute to a particular charitable cause? Im not saying it isnt a worthwhile charity but people can make their own decisions about who they wish to donate to and personally i would rather any donation i make go elsewhere at not at the whim of the club. I also agree with the poster who said its not right to view this as a PR oppertunity as that not only forces a donation but a cynical one at that. So its a no from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Good points here. I used my silky skills and found out the money raised by the Hillsborough Single have been donated to Liverpool Charity and Voluntary Sector (charity number: 223485) http://www.lcvs.org.uk/ LCVS | United Way is a registered charity that aims to advance the common good through mobilising and equipping individuals and groups for voluntary action and charitable giving. Our strategic intent is to bring together people and organisations who have the passion, expertise and resources needed to get things done - helping to improve communities and individual lives in lasting and measurable ways. The approach in all LCVS services is grounded in our core belief that individual and group voluntary action, independent of the state and motivated for public benefit rather than profit, is the basis for a strong and healthy civil society. Since 1909, we have been the strategic support organisation for donors and the non-profit sector in Liverpool and one of the largest distributors of funds in the North West of England. Last year our community of donors gave over £6.4 million to good causes in UK and overseas and we have £24 million of charitable funds invested on behalf of donors. LCVS | United Way is the operating name of Liverpool Charity and Voluntary Services. ----------------------------------------------------- Therefore, it seems to me the charity single isn't actually raising money for the Hillsborough families or anything Hillsborough related, but just for a Liverpool based charity. If this is the case, i'm out. I'd prefer us to raise money for something more locally. Silky skills indeed - thanks for finding this. I've voted no today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Don't Scare Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Can't we close the thread now? £25. Job done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Can't we close the thread now? £25. Job done Or is it £24.04 and the rest goes in a bucket to be handed over before the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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