Frankly Mr Shankly Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Well, here we are again. Another season drawing to a close with us fighting to escape the drop. With our current strategy of having to sign an entire team in the summer, followed by a procession of iffy loan signings therefore not really 'building' a team, isn't it just fate that ether this season, or next we'll end up in the 4th division anyway? The whole process of only having 2 or 3 players on a contract at the end if a season is one of the key reasons on our regular flirts with the bottom of the table. I refuse to believe it's just because we're always skint. To see clubs like Brentford, Crewe, Walsall, Yeovil (hell, put Tranmere into that mix too) and others in similar size and stature to us reep the rewards of what a steady, settled side can do proves to me that's the way forward. Perhaps a bit of this is fuelled by Corney refusing to give out contracts to players of more than a year because he knows he's likely to be off soon and is limiting the overall collateral damage of the fallout from that? When the new stand is in business and we are drawing in more investment, will our strategy then change? Will we have enough to be able to offer 8-9 solid contracts and build a team? Serious questions which are on my mind anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Think you've nailed it. Looks like the owners are now actively looking for the exit door and you can only imagine costs will continue to be cut further. These are grim times indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midsblue Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I too don't like all the short-termism. Only exception being our most saleable assets... to either sell, make a profit and cushion the investment to date...or make the club more saleable with assets of value...Baxter, Montano, new stand (if passed). How can you attract a decent manager with a contract just for this season & no longer term plans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 It's now or never. We put in one more push to get promoted. Get an experienced manager and secure 2 year deals on good footballers. If we continue to bring in loanees, journeymen and rubble from the season before you're right, we face inevitable relegation and it's looking grim from there with our lack of support from the town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Surely it's cheaper to sign one player for 3 years than to sign three players for a year each and pay three lots of signing on and agents fees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Surely it's cheaper to sign one player for 3 years than to sign three players for a year each and pay three lots of signing on and agents fees Surely it's cheaper to sign one player for 3 years than to sign three players for a year each and pay three lots of signing on and agents fees Yes but only if that one player doesn't get injured and is good enough to keep his place. Corney got burned by the likes of Purdie, Worthington, Holdsworth, Feeney etc. and doesn't want to keep repeating it. Of our current squad, very few haven't either been here for a full season or haven't got seasons to run on their contract though. It is quite short-termist though and does leave us wandering who is going in the close seasons for free on a regular basis. Worryingly for me is we don't appear to be looking at the ages of players when their contract expires. Lee and Furman last year and Smith this year have all had their contracts expire within a month of turning 24, meaning they can leave on a free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Surely it's cheaper to sign one player for 3 years than to sign three players for a year each and pay three lots of signing on and agents fees It is, but I think there is a worry that we will end up with a number of failed signings then on long term deals who would have to be paid off. The culture of paying off contracts seems to have been curbed a lot in the last 5 years and no doubt that was costing the club. I do agree we need a more settled team but this will certainly be a reason we aren't committing to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrown23 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 If we're offering the 1year deals surely we could just put options on them like we have done with a few in the past. That way, if they flop we can cut our loses and if they want the security of a 2nd year then they need to bust a bollock to earn it. It would avoid the situation we have now with players apparently not caring because they know they're off in the summer (this baffles me anyway, why would a club better placed than us want to sign a gutless player who has just been heavily involved in a relegation? surely the only way is down!). I know players want security of longer deals quite a lot of the time but if that option was there, say 8months into there contract, were they then had a sit down with Corney and the Management team, discussed their current situation in terms of "you are/aren't getting a new contract when the seasons done unless you put more in, if you don't want to be here next year then enjoy reserve team football." A bit drastic but I'd rather give the kids a shot who are hungry to prove something rather than waste our time on journeymen soft arses who expect every club in the land to throw a contract at them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Yes but only if that one player doesn't get injured and is good enough to keep his place. Corney got burned by the likes of Purdie, Worthington, Holdsworth, Feeney etc. and doesn't want to keep repeating it. Of our current squad, very few haven't either been here for a full season or haven't got seasons to run on their contract though. It is quite short-termist though and does leave us wandering who is going in the close seasons for free on a regular basis. Worryingly for me is we don't appear to be looking at the ages of players when their contract expires. Lee and Furman last year and Smith this year have all had their contracts expire within a month of turning 24, meaning they can leave on a free. But wouldn't the money saved (they'd probably take a lower wage on a longer deal too) and improvement in team performances that should come with a more settled squad offset the risk to a large extent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 But wouldn't the money saved (they'd probably take a lower wage on a longer deal too) and improvement in team performances that should come with a more settled squad offset the risk to a large extent? If I was a footballer at our level I wouldn't want a very long deal. As they then get signing on fees for their Bosman deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Yes but only if that one player doesn't get injured and is good enough to keep his place. Corney got burned by the likes of Purdie, Worthington, Holdsworth, Feeney etc. and doesn't want to keep repeating it. Of our current squad, very few haven't either been here for a full season or haven't got seasons to run on their contract though. It is quite short-termist though and does leave us wandering who is going in the close seasons for free on a regular basis. Worryingly for me is we don't appear to be looking at the ages of players when their contract expires. Lee and Furman last year and Smith this year have all had their contracts expire within a month of turning 24, meaning they can leave on a free. The risk is players who are journeymen or injury prone, signing young talent like Baxter and the 18yo hot prospect I have recommended to the club is the better option IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Glad most of this lot don't have three year deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Agree but it works both ways extra pay for accepting this condition. Players at 28+ wanting a bit of security. However Bosman has a lot to answer for regular signing on fees etc. The big clubs are now starting to manipulate the youth system with is it 20 mile rule? All very worrying. I love supporting latics and never would go elsewhere but I think despite good intentions SC has well and truly stuffed up not getting this sorted. To say PD leaving was a surprise is ridiculous and having no contingency in place bizare we are like the Titanic with headlights on heading for a known iceberg. In all honesty I can see why people have walked away. The players are a disgrace in so many ways and a shadow of what we know they are capable of. The cup run only proves it. PD leaving was just to stop a relegation on his CV and to think he will get another club on back of abject failure is unlike any other job. The only ones who come out of it with credit are TP and Gerrard and a thankless task. Believe SC is looking for a way out and doesnt know what to do the stand well until its open wont believe it if relegated not a hope in hell as that will be the latest excuse and this time internal. Can you rephrase the last paragraph I've read it several times and am still confused! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philliggi Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 personally if i was a footballer, i would be wanting to stay at a club for most if not all of my career. as long as the contract was acceptable, i would much rather stay in the same surroundings than constantly hunt the big bucks, yet having to continually move around the country, uprooting family, or having an hour plus commute to work every day. from the footballing side as well, i would rather be a big fish in a small pond, and a long time servant of a single club, than a journeyman, who nobody remembers five years after i retire. i would rather be a ryan giggs or a steven gerrard, than an anelka, or michael owen ( in truth id slit my wrists if i was any of them, but you get my drift) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Heck C-Beck Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Well, here we are again. Another season drawing to a close with us fighting to escape the drop. With our current strategy of having to sign an entire team in the summer, followed by a procession of iffy loan signings therefore not really 'building' a team, isn't it just fate that ether this season, or next we'll end up in the 4th division anyway? The whole process of only having 2 or 3 players on a contract at the end if a season is one of the key reasons on our regular flirts with the bottom of the table. I refuse to believe it's just because we're always skint. To see clubs like Brentford, Crewe, Walsall, Yeovil (hell, put Tranmere into that mix too) and others in similar size and stature to us reep the rewards of what a steady, settled side can do proves to me that's the way forward. Perhaps a bit of this is fuelled by Corney refusing to give out contracts to players of more than a year because he knows he's likely to be off soon and is limiting the overall collateral damage of the fallout from that? When the new stand is in business and we are drawing in more investment, will our strategy then change? Will we have enough to be able to offer 8-9 solid contracts and build a team? Serious questions which are on my mind anyway. While I agree somewhat with what your saying is it actually true that these clubs have had settled sides over the last few years? I would suspect a number of them also have more money than us to build a better squad and players. Crewe also invest heavily in youth and are able to take relegation to L2 without it signalling the end of the club which many predict would happen to us on here. Personally, I would be more than happy for us to invest in some promising young players on longer contracts, invest more in youth and look towards building a team which could deliver long term success and a decent income through player sales. The problem is it could easily lead to us being relegated and people seem to be more concerned with treading water than a real plan of action, which will sadly eventually see us relegated anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 personally if i was a footballer, i would be wanting to stay at a club for most if not all of my career. as long as the contract was acceptable, i would much rather stay in the same surroundings than constantly hunt the big bucks, yet having to continually move around the country, uprooting family, or having an hour plus commute to work every day. from the footballing side as well, i would rather be a big fish in a small pond, and a long time servant of a single club, than a journeyman, who nobody remembers five years after i retire. i would rather be a ryan giggs or a steven gerrard, than an anelka, or michael owen ( in truth id slit my wrists if i was any of them, but you get my drift) Your agent may think different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I'd be interested if anyone could find one of the annual threads on who we want to keep over the years where the answer is, "all of them." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 While I agree somewhat with what your saying is it actually true that these clubs have had settled sides over the last few years? I would suspect a number of them also have more money than us to build a better squad and players. I'll give you Crewe, as in effect their strategy has always been investing in their youth setup. Which is what we ought to be doing too, not to take anything away from TP's fine decade-and-a-half of work. But many others have had managers for 2 or more seasons and have built strong sides, with small changes in the summer. Our philosophy is starkly different. A huge overhaul every season, 15-20 new players and the result? Not many back to back wins in recent memory. Again, I don't buy that these other clubs have pots more cash than us, we're all off a similar ilk but the overall strategy is massively different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Heck C-Beck Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) I'll give you Crewe, as in effect their strategy has always been investing in their youth setup. Which is what we ought to be doing too, not to take anything away from TP's fine decade-and-a-half of work. But many others have had managers for 2 or more seasons and have built strong sides, with small changes in the summer. Our philosophy is starkly different. A huge overhaul every season, 15-20 new players and the result? Not many back to back wins in recent memory. Again, I don't buy that these other clubs have pots more cash than us, we're all off a similar ilk but the overall strategy is massively different. Well if that's the case I agree with you 100%. For me the problems at Oldham run much deeper than on the pitch which as you put leads to a massively different overall strategy. I personally don't think we have one! I wonder if we did actually have someone on the board with the vision to put a long term strategy in place to secure the future of the club and hopefully future success, that we would get more backing from the fans? Even if it did involve a relegation? Edited March 10, 2013 by Oh Heck C-Beck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philliggi Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Your agent may think different. I wouldnt need one, If I was that good I could demand a better contract elsewhere, Id just take an equal high earner clause. and if i was mediocre id be happy to take the average wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) I think it is a good point to see if longer contracts are given with the improved financial the new stand (and in realitiy at least two of the others too). But there is an overall change going on of not giving longer term contracts. And the whole of the Football League is genrally worrying more about finance. this was a survey b thee BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/21713435 Survey results in full How would you describe the financial health of Football League clubs in general? Worrying - 29 Adequate - 8 Good - 1 Excellent - 0 No answer - 3 How would you describe the financial health of your club? Worrying - 4 Adequate - 18 Good - 13 Excellent - 5 No answer - 1 Has the financial health of your club got better or worse in the last five years? Much worse - 3 Worse - 5 Better - 9 Much better - 16 No answer - 8 How beneficial or not is the Premier League for the Football League? Extremely detrimental - 4 Fairly detrimental - 7 Fairly beneficial - 14 Extremely beneficial - 7 No answer - 9 How concerned are you about falling attendances in the Football League and cup competitions? Extremely concerned - 13 Fairly concerned - 21 Fairly unconcerned - 4 Not concerned at all - 1 No answer - 2 How much of a problem are players' wages at your club? An extremely big problem - 7 A bit of a problem - 21 Not much of a problem - 6 No problem at all - 4 No answer - 3 Edited March 13, 2013 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.