Diego_Sideburns Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I've started this thread to get away from the Trust and Barry, and to try to make some progress on the widely-accepted need to provide a channel to improve communications between the Club and supporters. UEFA has produced a Supporter Liaison Officer Handbook, to which no doubt Jenny Warburton refers. It contains the following standard definition of the SLO’s role: SLOs are a bridge between the fans and the club and help to improve the dialogue between the two sides. Their work is dependent on the information they receive from both sides and the credibility they enjoy with both parties. The SLO informs fans about relevant decisions made by the club management and, in the other direction, communicates the points of view of fans to the club management. The SLO builds relationships not just with various fan groups and initiatives but also with the police and security officers. The SLO engages with SLOs of other clubs before matches to contribute to supporters behaving in accordance with security guidelines. Ideally employed by the club in order to liaise with the fans, the SLO is an advocate of both sides, representing the interests of the club (or national association/league) AND those of the supporters. To do the job properly, the SLO needs to receive good information from all sides. It is therefore essential that the SLO is credible and has the respect and acceptance of everyone involved, i.e. the club, the fans, the national association, the league, the police, the stewards, etc. When it comes to decisions made by the club management, it may often be preferable for these decisions to be communicated to the fans by the SLO rather than fans simply reading about them in the newspaper or on the club website. At the same time, the fans can put their suggestions to the club via the SLO. In this process the SLO can help the club make better decisions by communicating the views, needs and concerns of the fans to the club management. SLOs therefore have an active role to play in shaping club policy and processes and are not simply there to provide a service. Building relationships with the various stakeholders, then, is a key part of the SLO’s job. This involves talking not only to fans but also to the police and the organisations responsible for crowd control. For the full UEFA SLO Handbook: http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Tech/uefaorg/General/01/84/35/28/1843528_DOWNLOAD.pdf I know there is a view that Latics just added this role to Jenny’s other duties to save money, but she is the SLO and should be utilised to enable supporters and the Club to communicate with each other along the lines set out above by UEFA. In discussing this, can we try to be seen to be dealing with a serious issue, and avoid the usual sexist remarks, or picking on words such as "builds relationships...with fans" , whenever Jenny is mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Ideally employed by the club in order to liaise with the fans, the SLO is an advocate of both sides, representing the interests of the club (or national association/league) AND those of the supporters. I think Jenny should assign her role to Sidney Schmeltz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 What do people think hasn't been communicated properly? I can't think of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I've started this thread to get away from the Trust and Barry, and to try to make some progress on the widely-accepted need to provide a channel to improve communications between the Club and supporters. UEFA has produced a Supporter Liaison Officer Handbook, to which no doubt Jenny Warburton refers. It contains the following standard definition of the SLO’s role: SLOs are a bridge between the fans and the club and help to improve the dialogue between the two sides. Their work is dependent on the information they receive from both sides and the credibility they enjoy with both parties. The SLO informs fans about relevant decisions made by the club management and, in the other direction, communicates the points of view of fans to the club management. The SLO builds relationships not just with various fan groups and initiatives but also with the police and security officers. The SLO engages with SLOs of other clubs before matches to contribute to supporters behaving in accordance with security guidelines. Ideally employed by the club in order to liaise with the fans, the SLO is an advocate of both sides, representing the interests of the club (or national association/league) AND those of the supporters. To do the job properly, the SLO needs to receive good information from all sides. It is therefore essential that the SLO is credible and has the respect and acceptance of everyone involved, i.e. the club, the fans, the national association, the league, the police, the stewards, etc. When it comes to decisions made by the club management, it may often be preferable for these decisions to be communicated to the fans by the SLO rather than fans simply reading about them in the newspaper or on the club website. At the same time, the fans can put their suggestions to the club via the SLO. In this process the SLO can help the club make better decisions by communicating the views, needs and concerns of the fans to the club management. SLOs therefore have an active role to play in shaping club policy and processes and are not simply there to provide a service. Building relationships with the various stakeholders, then, is a key part of the SLO’s job. This involves talking not only to fans but also to the police and the organisations responsible for crowd control. For the full UEFA SLO Handbook: http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Tech/uefaorg/General/01/84/35/28/1843528_DOWNLOAD.pdf I know there is a view that Latics just added this role to Jenny’s other duties to save money, but she is the SLO and should be utilised to enable supporters and the Club to communicate with each other along the lines set out above by UEFA. In discussing this, can we try to be seen to be dealing with a serious issue, and avoid the usual sexist remarks, or picking on words such as "builds relationships...with fans" , whenever Jenny is mentioned? Surely this should be raised with the club and Jenny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Villains Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 when did we start talking about liaisons? wasn't our beef with the trust? How does barry get elected? who is Alfredo Garcia? I don't think many can complain with how Corney conducts his communications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 when did we start talking about liaisons? wasn't our beef with the trust? How does barry get elected? who is Alfredo Garcia? I don't think many can complain with how Corney conducts his communications. Arising from Prozac's chance meeting and 'Frank Exchange with Simon Corney' thread, he developed the 'Who voted Barry...' thread on the need to improve communications between the club and the fans and on a much more regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 What do people think hasn't been communicated properly? I can't think of anything. What our SLO and the chairman of the trust were doing to see if they could resolve the situation as hundreds of our fans got locked out at Bury? I'm still awaiting a response from the trust chairman about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Villains Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I take it the Frank Exchange gag has been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 I take it the Frank Exchange gag has been done. Who's Frank Exchange and why's he with Simon? Potential investor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daboke Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) Ludo... friend. Edited July 9, 2013 by Daboke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.hill12 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 The SLO should be a full time job imo and is essential to a football club for dealing with the issues currently being debated. Yes the trust has it's issues but for me the club could do alot more as i explained in the other thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) What our SLO and the chairman of the trust were doing to see if they could resolve the situation as hundreds of our fans got locked out at Bury? I'm still awaiting a response from the trust chairman about that. So your beef about Bury is with Jenny Waburton and/or Barry Owen rather than Bury FC or Greater Manchester Police? Wow. And I'm sure I remember Barry, along with everyone else, being heavily involved in doing it to death in the days that followed. Edited July 9, 2013 by HarryBosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petelatics Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I do think there is a lot of room for improvement between the club and the fans. I contacted Jennie regarding the new shirt replacing the last one after only one season and received a very curt, defensive reply. It would be nice if the club showed that they value us as opposed to just saying that they do. Better communication would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 The SLO should be a full time job imo and is essential to a football club for dealing with the issues currently being debated. Yes the trust has it's issues but for me the club could do alot more as i explained in the other thread Got to say that a small club as ours cannt possibly justify a Full Time Supporters Liaison Officer, though communication can always be improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) Well why did Bury think that stand would be enough? Who provided the "intelligence" that said we wouldn't bring more than 2000? If the club had no input into that then what is the point? On Friday, on the club's website it said we had sold 1000+ tickets and often in the past have taken the same number of fans again looking to pay on the day. From the statements made by Bury and the GMP they were unaware of this. Did the club tell them? As for all ticket, that theory only works if it's all ticket for home fans as well. Bury were not going to make it all ticket for home fans. That means people who were unable to get a ticket for our end for whatever reason would have tried to gain entry into the home ends. It is a very local game, it only costs £4.00 on the bus to get there for the majority. For some it is even closer and easier to get to than BP is. We had a good couple of hundred fans unable to get in the ground, if it had been a sell-out Bury might not have gotten much more notice. As it was they should have had over 20 hours notice to realise that stand wasn't necessarily going to be big enough. They did nothing, the situation could have been resolved in 30 minutes, it certainly was in 2002. So if they didn't do anything with over 20 hours notice why should I believe they would have done anything with longer notice. The trouble was mainly involving those fans who were in the home ends, all-ticket for our fans wouldn't have stopped that. As we saw at Stockport a few years ago. If I hadnt been able to get a ticket if it had been all-ticket I'd have backed myself to be able to enter the home end, especially with their well-publicised financial problems. I wouldn't have been the only one either. Incidentally what were you doing whilst a few hundred fans were locked out, some of whom had tickets? That is exactly the sort of situation I'd have expected the fan's representative on the board to get involved in, or the supporter's liaison, where were you? I freely admit you couldn't make the decision, but you could have helped diffuse the situation if needed. Rudematic I do not agree with your comments about ALL ticket problems. You are far better knowing beforehand what tickets are sold and you can plan accordinlgy. Those that would turn up without a ticket in these circumstances would be very few. You are likely to have a more volatile crowd when supporters are so upset when some had bought tickets etc.as with last Saturday. Fans turning up without tickets do not deserve any consideration if they do so knowing it is an all ticket game and can be policed accordingly. You say that our club could be blamed to a lesser extent. What do you mean and in what respect.? Barry Yes it would have but not as much as a competent bit of intelligence, decent policing and a contingency plan. Plus the ability for someone to actually make the decision, to move home fans, delay kick off and let every one in. Making it all ticket might have made it worse. 2100/2200 tickets sold and a few more OAFC fans not able to buy them would have likely meant even more fans in the home ends. As it was the majority of people left quietly. Bury FC, GMP and to a lesser extent OAFC made errors. It was obvious that a stand with a capacity of 2100/2200 (depending on who you believe) might not have been enough on Friday evening. If people cannot react in 22 hours to a serious problem then they don't deserve to be put in the position. So your beef about Bury is with Jenny Waburton and/or Barry Owen rather than Bury FC or Greater Manchester Police? Wow. And I'm sure I remember Barry, along with everyone else, being heavily involved in doing it to death in the days that followed. I don't have a problem with Bury and GMP, I got in. My issue is the fact I am still waiting for a response to the questions I asked Barry in the top quoted post, after deigning to question how exactly GMP, Bury FC and OAFC could have done better, note how those include the two organisations Barry Owen has strong connection with. If Barry doesn't think the club did anything wrong, perhaps he should answer my questions as opposed to effectively blinding stating "It wasn't me (us) guv, we had nothing to do with it." Furthermore, Barry Owen and Jenny Warburton could well be very useful in assisting how those with tickets, but didn't get in, get their money back and potentially those who spent money travelling to Bury do so too (although the last one is very unlikely). How is that coming along, has everyone who had a ticket but who didn't get in got their money back yet? That's another question still to be unanswered. Edited July 9, 2013 by rudemedic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) I've reflected over the last 36 hours or so and I agree with what many of you are saying that, The Trust if structured properly could do a lot of good both in terms of representing the fans and communicating from and to the club. I have my differences with the curent effectiveness of the Trust and the way Barry chooses to communicate on an irregular basis to those he represents. But perhaps the concept of Trust Oldham is not beyond salvation. However, I do acknowledge that Barry and other members of the Trust work tirelessly for the club and have the best interests of the club at heart. I still believe there is a conflict between the role of Chair of The Trust, Fans Rep and being a Director of Oldham Athletic. In terms of getting involved having weighed up the pros and cons if the Trust felt they could define a role that utilises my personal and professional skills then I would be prepared to listen. If they don't then fair enough. As for the other point raised in this thread:- A dedicated Fans Liaison Officer was something I suggested to Simon Corney both at the back end of last season and the other day, he implied that he would prefer any involvement that aims to improve communications between the club and fans to be via the Trust. I have mentioned on here before that I think Customer Service from the club is poor, a defensive 'well what do you expect us to do?' Approach is taken, where a slight tweak here and there would go far in reassuring our 'customers' that any issue they raise is important to the club and being dealt with. Early in my career before retraining I had a couple of years working in Customer Service before becoming a Customer Service Manager (then moved back into construction before retraining completely), it's not rocket science to empathise and to take ownership of a complaint and see that complaint through to a conclusion where the outcome is satisfactory to both parties. No complaint is ever personal and it's important the club remember this. By raising the defensive barrier, it simply exacerbates the problem and the notion that the club simply don't care. I said a few weeks ago the club dropped the ball by not issuing a brief statement re: The new kits. Something along the lines of "We know we are about to launch another kit, but after careful consideration we have decided that every revenue source has to be explored, and we know you will support us during this important pre-season. Of course all commercial sales go straight back into club coffers and help with the day to day running of the club" Re: Pulling the Season Ticket Offer. "It is regrettable that the Video earlier in the season was leaked, the £200 + VAT + Free Shirt offer, was one of a number of options and after careful consultation between the board, we decided that by Freezing the price for a 6th consecutive year and offering a new replica shirt for £20 this still represents excellent value, not forgetting the Early Bird Period is more friendly this year by ending on the final day of the month and of course fans can take advantage of the finance initiative we offer through our partnership company. I respect the fact that much of what is discussed at boardroom level should be confidential, that's what a board room is for but fans with genuine concerns should have a voice and at the very least a reply. Could a dedicated Fans' Liaison Director within the Trust be the way forward, or do the club need to further develop the role in house? Somewhere along the line the gap between boardroom, Barry and the rest of us needs plugging. Edited July 9, 2013 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_ktf Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I think it's very apparent that underneath the veneer of we're all in it together and trust Oldham an awful lot of the time it's them ( the fans) against us ( Simon, Barry, Jenny, even ticket office) The 'club' are perceived as defensive, awkward, an 'we know best' and the fans are moaners, pessimistic, an 'you never really listen to us' An to play to type, despite all the idea's, I don't think that will ever really change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukka Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 "No complaint is ever personal and it's important the club remember this. By raising the defensive barrier, it simply exacerbates the problem and the notion that the club simply don't care" I have worked in customer service for the last 10 years. This the above is spot on. The PR from the club is poor. The stick given on here though is harsh. It often becomes abusive, when constructive criticism is required. I like the willingness of Jenny to promote the club. Lots of social media interaction on facebook, the PR just isn't done correctly in my opinion. I'm not on twitter, but my mate said the club have a hashtag of lovetheowl on match days. When have you ever heard latics fans say that? Things like that show the club are not understanding its audience. That only seems a small point (and it is) but it's just sympomatic of what is wrong with the PR. #ohwhentheblues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Something along the lines of "We know we are about to launch another kit, but after careful consideration we have decided that every revenue source has to be explored, and we know you will support us during this important pre-season. Of course all commercial sales go straight back into club coffers and help with the day to day running of the club" Re: Pulling the Season Ticket Offer. "It is regrettable that the Video earlier in the season was leaked, the £200 + VAT + Free Shirt offer, was one of a number of options and after careful consultation between the board, we decided that by Freezing the price for a 6th consecutive year and offering a new replica shirt for £20 this still represents excellent value, not forgetting the Early Bird Period is more friendly this year by ending on the final day of the month and of course fans can take advantage of the finance initiative we offer through our partnership company. Needs more typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Surely we've had enough SLO people at the club on the pitch in previous years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy_Fent Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 "No complaint is ever personal and it's important the club remember this. By raising the defensive barrier, it simply exacerbates the problem and the notion that the club simply don't care" I have worked in customer service for the last 10 years. This the above is spot on. The PR from the club is poor. The stick given on here though is harsh. It often becomes abusive, when constructive criticism is required. I like the willingness of Jenny to promote the club. Lots of social media interaction on facebook, the PR just isn't done correctly in my opinion. I'm not on twitter, but my mate said the club have a hashtag of lovetheowl on match days. When have you ever heard latics fans say that? Things like that show the club are not understanding its audience. That only seems a small point (and it is) but it's just sympomatic of what is wrong with the PR. #ohwhentheblues it was used by the players the last couple of seasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I am of the mind that there are are a few different factors at play here that need to be separated (even though they follow a common thread). First, the role of Supporter Liaison Officer (as prescribed by UEFA) was a move (from what I know) focused, as usual, at the bigger clubs but prescribed across the board. It's creation does not take into account any channels, trusts, fan involvement already in play at a club. However, it is a dictat clubs must abide by. Therefore it was a role assigned to "the best" person from the personnel already operating within the club. So in many ways it immediately becomes a "title only" role. Not a slight on Jenny, but she has plenty on plate as it is, and I'm not sure how much she enjoys/is focused on supporter service. Secondly, and separate to the above, the club has, for many years been less than great in it's communication, commercial and service focus. That isn't to say there aren't people working hard and doing the jobs to the best of their (sometimes considerable) ability. It's just that the organisation as a whole, in my view, has lacked an experienced, marketing savvy approach and some clear communication structures for some time. This is at the heart of many of the complaints of one type or another over the past few years. Thirdly, the Trust has understandably lost it's direction somewhat. The reason imho is completely understandable, it was an organisation formed at the time for a very specific purpose...that purpose came and went and as the years have ticked by there have been several different areas that have tried to be covered by the Trust which has perhaps given it a moving target in terms of a focus. I know that the Trust themselves recognise that and have already been looking to create a new way of working and new focus for what can be a very key organisation and rally point for us all again. That's why several people with various skills, experience and opinions have been sought out over the past few months. At the end of the day you will never please all the people all the time, but as long as communication channels are clear, and by that I mean 2-way channels, and people are clear on who, when and where, I think the majority except this. So the Trust has work to do, as does the club in terms of communication, organisation and service. If this is done then we'll know what needs directing to who and when, and if that really is the Supporter Liaison Officer. But at the end of the day that all means nothing without a clear direction for the club who are at the heart of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 What our SLO and the chairman of the trust were doing to see if they could resolve the situation as hundreds of our fans got locked out at Bury? I'm still awaiting a response from the trust chairman about that. I've just re read this - are you still at Gigg Lane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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