OneSizeFitz Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Only one player in our midfield kept the team ticking and moving last season and it wasn't Wes who worked hard and had a good season his first in 3 by the way. If you can't see the difference between the 2 and you obviously can't then there no point to this. We turned down offers for Smith in January as mentioned by LJ but I expect you to disbelieve that as it suits your argument and I don't know who from but it won't be :censored:in Shrewsbury that's for sure! Disagree completely with that. His first season here, he was probably our best player (hampered only by his recurring shoulder problem). We looked completely lost without him, and the majority were delighted when we tied him down to a 2-year deal in the close season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) You've lost me a bit then to be honest, don't know what point you are trying to make. For me, and you might not agree, Wes's job in the team, and one that he did well for the most part, is to get around the pitch, breaking play up and giving the ball to a teammate - he's certainly not a guy who's going to be pinging long range passes around and he would look silly if he did. I get the impression, and feel free to shoot me down, that you think the game is purely about technical ability, which is blinkered thinking IMO. Not at all. The game and teams need all aspects. Wes was good at what he did but my point and my original point for months has been. Wes is easy replaceable if all you want is someone to breask up play. Other players and other aspects of the game are not so easy to replace. Losing Wes will not greatly effect our season. Losing someone like Smith could... Edited June 7, 2014 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Smith is the better player, obviously, in terms of passing the ball and probably at keepy uppys but Wes was the more consistent performer over the course of last season, that's why he won all the player of the year awards and a lot of the man of the match polls on here. That wasn't because Oldham fans love a grafter, it was because he was the best/most effective player in more games than any other player. Still digging? Best/most effective player who has now gone to play in the 4th division? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 would suspect LJ fancies smith to wes as he brought him in and made him captain, wes started last season on the bench so its no suprise really that he would offload wes and see him as the problem in the middle of the park, thats why he made no real effort to keep him, I hope smith steps up this season because ive seen little to convince let alone as a skipper and probably top earner. Why all this anti Smith crap because Wes cannot get a decent offer from other clubs in our division? The logic or rather lack of it from some people amazes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Not at all. The game and teams need all aspects. Wes was good at what he did but my point and my original point for months has been. Wes is easy replaceable if all you want is someone to breask up play. Other players and other aspects of the game are not so easy to replace. Losing Wes will not greatly effect our season. Losing someone like Smith could... Fair enough, twisting it round then, what is it that Smith does that is so fantastic that we'd fall off a cliff if he went? I think he's decent, neat and tidy, but I don't think he's anywhere as good as someone like Stephen Gleeson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 just asking what smith brought to the table last season you talk about him like some sort of footballing god i understand it if you dont understand or appreciate wes' worth just please let me know what smith offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Still digging? Best/most effective player who has now gone to play in the 4th division? You've obviously got no grasp of the modern game if you think players are bothered if they play in L1, L2, even Conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 IMO when he is on it we as a team play the game 10 yards further up the pitch which drives us forward. He is always available for a pass and constantly talking and organising his midfield partner. He can pick a pass and although we wish he would shoot more he has an unbelievable strike on him. He can play the defensive role and much further up the field. His work rate always matched Wes and he is still young and improving. He needs to drive forward more, he needs to shoot more and his passing could be more consistent but last season was his first full season wasnt it? Plenty to work with but we won't have him for long. I will be honest I have not seen enough of any other league 1 player unless they play us simply because I don't give a :censored: about them other than Latics. Gleeson is rated but he should have moved on and progressed by now and hasnt. Must be reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Guru Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Put smith in a creative dynamic midfield and he will thrive...stick him alongside a clogger like wes and he is on his own...Oldham fans always blinkered by a hard working journeyman despite having little quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Guru Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Wes is a weak link in creating a good counter attack...when the opposition is in possession that is when he comes into his own...LJ wants players who are comfortable on the ball and can dictate play/ maintain possession ...Korey is 2000 times better on the ball and giving us the chance of having more impact in the final 3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 what stand do you lot sit in might have to change my seat as things stand cos I see a different game ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Guru Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 The one where you can see a players technical ability and potential over another's ability to run round like a Jack Russel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) what stand do you lot sit in might have to change my seat as things stand cos I see a different game ! Having read your posts for the last few months I think you are in a different ground never mind stand mate Edited June 7, 2014 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 You've obviously got no grasp of the modern game if you think players are bothered if they play in L1, L2, even Conference. Its dark now obviously but tomorrow morning I will unlock my shed and get you a spade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey1980 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) This is a frankly ridiculous debate! Wes has been a wholehearted and effective player for us over 3 years where he has clearly given his professional best for the club. I feel he is a better player than he is being given credit for by some, but I agree that he is replaceable. As with any player, we cannot pay more for a player than our manager feels he is worth. For those who dismiss him - remember the first half hour at Rotherham after the Preston performance. LJ wanted a more progressive presence in the midfield and picked Mellor above Wes, Smith became the base of the midfield and Rotherham flooded forward as it was painfully obvious we had only one option to play out with from the back and we were constantly under pressure. It was only when Mellor was sent off and Wes returned that we again had options to retain possession and improved markedly. He can play. However why anybody would pile into Korey Smith - our young captain who frequently played through injuries for the cause last year and who also never (to my eyes at least) gives less than his best to prove a point about Wes is beyond me. Smith is a technically gifted ball player who is a disciplined pivot for the team. I would like to see him make more forward runs and pull the trigger more readily, but as he matures I am sure that this will improve. The truth is we would miss both, as last season they were equally reliant on each other to balance their partners weaknesses. However given his age and technical ability, Smith would be undoubtedly the more difficult of the pair to replace. I feel he needs another ball player alongside him to ensure that teams cannot close him down and stop the team playing - but whoever it is needs experience and cannot be a lightweight option. That is not an easy player to find - which suggests an upgrade on Wes will not be easy either!! However LJ as our manager believes he can find that player and as such we have to have faith that he can. It is his budget, and his responsibility to best prepare the squad from it. The success of the decision will be judged by the quality of replacement. Edited June 8, 2014 by whitey1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Here's one - initially on loan, and yes I have seen him play so would recommend him; http://fulham.wikia.com/wiki/Solomon_Sambou I'd avoid, based purely on the fact he calls himself "the Enforcer". Anyone remember the last time we signed a young lad on loan who had a self penned nickname? Anthony "the Duke" Grant. I rest my case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Still digging? Best/most effective player who has now gone to play in the 4th division? I don't knnow your age or employment status, but for the purposes of this; i'm going to prentend you're a 27 year old earning a competitive wage at a middling local company. You get approached, after a relatively successful 3 year project has ended, by a number of other companies who are keen to offer you a job. Some of those companies offer a similar wage and similar prospects, and are similar sized companies to the one you work at currently. But one company comes in with an offer that is simply more than all the the others. Its a better wage, better signing on bonus and has the added bonus of, whilst being away from your current companies location, is actually closer to where you once lived. You go for an interview and really like the place. Yes, its a company that could be described as smaller than yours; and is currently opperating at a level a smidge below your current one, but - its well run, proffesional and has the potential to rise higher than it currently is. And, again, as I say; they have offered you the best all round package and are really keen to see you join them. What would you do? .* I don't blame Wes for leaving, and i totally get why he has done. This dropping down a level arguement is pretty null & void really. It has nothing really to do with ability and everything to do with a 3 year deal on the best financial package offered. .* for the purposes of acting out this scenario, please feel free to use an Aussie accent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_ktf Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 OK Effective? How? Seriously please explain He had a good season and was consistant but other than work rate how was he most effective. He scored more goals for a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Sly & Whitey - are you sure you are on the right site? You are allowing dangerous elements of rational thinking and common sense into the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy_Fent Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) The one where you can see a players technical ability and potential over another's ability to run round like a Jack Russel... This to me is the difference between a top half finish and yet another relegation scrap, Wes was excellent at the basics but in terms of attacking ability he was very limited hence why I believe Peterborough got rid of him in the first place. Ideally alongside Smith we need a Duxbury/McDonald type who will break up play and then go and make those late runs into the box. Granted these players come at a price, perhaps Wes was asking for the sort of money that only players with that extra bit qualiy will comand. Edited June 8, 2014 by Tommy_Fent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepingthe Faith Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I think it is more believable that Wes was more than willing to stay with us and if the manager wanted him to stay, he would still be here. Wes was a 100% performer and came into his own when the opposition had the ball but was found lacking when we had possession. Yes he popped up in the right place occasionally to finish off a move but not a player who could affect our possession play enough. Something about Wes that really stood out for me, was, for a below average height player just how high he could leap and time an header. I think with Corey we have real footballer who is still young and learning and fits in more with how our manager wants to play. I think Wes was never really in the managers plans and he would ideally have liked to have moved him on before the start of last season. I remember seeing a disappointed bit part player sat on the bench at the start of last season. If we had a little more luck in front of goal in the first quarter of last season I don't think Wes would have been our player of the season. I would like to say thank you to Wes for his outstanding efforts whilst with us and wish him the very best of luck with his future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisA Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I'd avoid, based purely on the fact he calls himself "the Enforcer". Anyone remember the last time we signed a young lad on loan who had a self penned nickname? Anthony "the Duke" Grant. I rest my case... It was actually worse. His self styled nickname was 'The Judge'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I don't blame Wes for leaving, and i totally get why he has done. This dropping down a level arguement is pretty null & void really. It has nothing really to do with ability and everything to do with a 3 year deal on the best financial package offered. .* for the purposes of acting out this scenario, please feel free to use an Aussie accent. The move to a 4th division club has everything to do with ability! That is patently obvious now, but if you want to choose not to believe it thats up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_ktf Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Smith is a better footballer than wes. Wes had a better season than Smith. ( see end of season awards. ) Wes has got the security of a three year deal. Good luck to him. Neither of them are that good. Or they wouldn't play/played for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 The move to a 4th division club has everything to do with ability! That is patently obvious now, but if you want to choose not to believe it thats up to you. Gary Roberts, Ryan Lowe, Ian Evatt, Paddy Madden, Dave Syers, David Ball, Kevan Hurst, Adam McGurk, Billy Kee, John Mullins, Rhys Murphy, Conor Hourihane, Jason Banton, Jim McNulty, Nicky Adams, Danny Mayor, Danny Nardiello, Nicky Shorey, Danny Hollands, Wes Fogden, Andy Barcham, Darcy Blake, Matt Richards, Byron Harrison, Kevin Ellison, Darren Carter, Dan Woodards, Alan Gow, John Joe O'Toole, Joss Labadie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.