Latics and England Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 After giving myself a little time to take some of the immediate emotion out of it, here's my thoughts about the Dunn's 4 months in charge and why I think he had an impossible job but made things so much more difficult for himself than they needed to be. http://www.ernieflag.co.uk/site/index.php/bloggs/14-oldham-athletic/184-dunn-for-from-the-start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshawlatic Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Excellent report as always and as one of Dunn's biggest critics from day one I think you have it spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagger Lee Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Good read - and so was the Kelly one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Excellent read and spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1onheartNew Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Really good read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Good read, but I have a real bugbear about the claim about what Dunn said about Mourinho/Ferguson! Mainly at the MEN for reporting it incorrectly at the time. He said they couldn't stop the individual mistakes players were making. That might be right or wrong, but it's a long way from claiming they couldn't manage the team. I think a different manager at a different time saying the same things as Dunn would have been applauded by most rather than pilloried. That's why Shez is such a great appointment - he won't be subject to the same interview scrutiny as Holden, Kelly and Dunn fortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 For now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) Good read, but I have a real bugbear about the claim about what Dunn said about Mourinho/Ferguson! Mainly at the MEN for reporting it incorrectly at the time. He said they couldn't stop the individual mistakes players were making. That might be right or wrong, but it's a long way from claiming they couldn't manage the team. I think a different manager at a different time saying the same things as Dunn would have been applauded by most rather than pilloried. That's why Shez is such a great appointment - he won't be subject to the same interview scrutiny as Holden, Kelly and Dunn fortunately. I am not sure it is that he won't get the scutiny. He certainly was subject to it last time. I just think Shez is more clear, and will not get anywhere near such poor analagoies that can be misinterpretted/misrepresented. As it was misrepresented, the Joe Royle quote was a better example of the point raised. Edited January 19, 2016 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I am not sure it is that he won't get the scutiny. He certainly was subject to it last time. I just think Shez is more clear, and will not get anywhere near such poor analagoies that can be misinterpretted/misrepresented. As it was misrepresented, the Joe Royle quote was a better example of the point raised. He'll be given time by the fans, and slack. And we won't have to sack him if we get relegated. Massive plus points for Corney. And for the morale of everyone really. For example, if Dunn was still in charge he'd be getting crucified for wasting £500 on appealing that card when that money could have gone to a new player. It's Shez, so it's commendable public backing of one of his players. The misrepresentation was wilful, that's my point. When you listened to what he said, or read the quotes it was totallly clear what he meant. But anyway, don't really want to go down this road again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Good read, but I have a real bugbear about the claim about what Dunn said about Mourinho/Ferguson! Mainly at the MEN for reporting it incorrectly at the time. He said they couldn't stop the individual mistakes players were making. That might be right or wrong, but it's a long way from claiming they couldn't manage the team. I think a different manager at a different time saying the same things as Dunn would have been applauded by most rather than pilloried. That's why Shez is such a great appointment - he won't be subject to the same interview scrutiny as Holden, Kelly and Dunn fortunately. Having gone back and re-read the comments from Dunn, I can see your point here, but I still think the issue remains. Dunn was stating that the issue was individual errors (I actually think that is overly simplistic but that's by the by) and there was nothing he could do about that. He may be right, but it is still an admission that he saw himself as powerless to solve the problem that he'd identified as causing our rapid decline. Time will tell whether another manager can find a way of preventing such individual mistakes costing us games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Having gone back and re-read the comments from Dunn, I can see your point here, but I still think the issue remains. Dunn was stating that the issue was individual errors (I actually think that is overly simplistic but that's by the by) and there was nothing he could do about that. He may be right, but it is still an admission that he saw himself as powerless to solve the problem that he'd identified as causing our rapid decline. Time will tell whether another manager can find a way of preventing such individual mistakes costing us games. That's fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petelatics Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Must admitI picked up on Dunn's arrogance. Remember in one of his first interviews with Gordon and he wasn't respectful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) . Edited January 19, 2016 by HarryBosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nonaenever Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 some people are cut out for management - and some aren't - I don't think Dunn is. A bit of humbleness would have gone a long way to endearing himself to doubters but he did always come across as quite cocky and arrogant on interview. He did have the "big club swagger" about him - FFS he was at Blackburn not Man U ! Mind you football is a very odd profession - it's one of the few were abject failures CAN get re-employed (and usually for more money) on the "old boys' merry go round". Can you ever imagine anyone as inept as Dean Holden getting employed in any other profession? Was a mediocre player and yet people trust him to pass on his vast knowledge and methods as a coach or assistant or whatever else you want to tag him with. And please don't slag me off about good old Deano - the club's been on a dramatic downward slide (playing field wise) almost from day one of his arrival - no co-incidence in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Good read, but I have a real bugbear about the claim about what Dunn said about Mourinho/Ferguson! Mainly at the MEN for reporting it incorrectly at the time. He said they couldn't stop the individual mistakes players were making. That might be right or wrong, but it's a long way from claiming they couldn't manage the team. I think a different manager at a different time saying the same things as Dunn would have been applauded by most rather than pilloried. That's why Shez is such a great appointment - he won't be subject to the same interview scrutiny as Holden, Kelly and Dunn fortunately. Having gone back and re-read the comments from Dunn, I can see your point here, but I still think the issue remains. Dunn was stating that the issue was individual errors (I actually think that is overly simplistic but that's by the by) and there was nothing he could do about that. He may be right, but it is still an admission that he saw himself as powerless to solve the problem that he'd identified as causing our rapid decline. Time will tell whether another manager can find a way of preventing such individual mistakes costing us games. If Dunn doesn't understand that ironing out individual errors is a big part of what makes/made Ferguson and Mourinho great managers he really does need to do something else for a living - not that he'll necessarily have a choice in the matter now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 some people are cut out for management - and some aren't - I don't think Dunn is. A bit of humbleness would have gone a long way to endearing himself to doubters but he did always come across as quite cocky and arrogant on interview. He did have the "big club swagger" about him - FFS he was at Blackburn not Man U ! 20 years (on & off) of his :censored: not stinking at Blackburn doesn't seem to have prepared him very well for life outside of that bubble..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozman Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Must admitI picked up on Dunn's arrogance. Remember in one of his first interviews with Gordon and he wasn't respectful. I think many people take on a different persona when you put them in front of a camera.Dunn comes across as arrogant and dismissive, where as when I've met him he's been anything but that. A bit like Nigel Pearson. He comes across as defensive and awkward in interviews but everyone at Leicester said that away from the camera he was very relaxed and always cracking jokes. Obviously doesn't change the fact he wasn't up to the job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 some people are cut out for management - and some aren't - I don't think Dunn is. A bit of humbleness would have gone a long way to endearing himself to doubters but he did always come across as quite cocky and arrogant on interview. He did have the "big club swagger" about him - FFS he was at Blackburn not Man U ! And please don't slag me off about good old Deano - the club's been on a dramatic downward slide (playing field wise) almost from day one of his arrival - no co-incidence in my view. I'm glad Dunn isn't in charge for the rest of this season and the start of next with us, but mainly because we need someone who understands what it takes to drag a club out of a rut as a manager. Shez is ideal for that but I'm not totally ruling Dunn out as a manager yet. I think he needs more coaching experience before he has a go at another top job though. Similar with Holden. I'm not unhappy that he's gone, but I don't think he's a terrible coach per se. He was highly rated by Dean Smith when at Walsall who clearly knows what he's doing. The big issues for me was that he was often surrounded by inexperienced coaching staff here, meaning that he didn't really have a mentor to bounce ideas off. Secondly he seems to be naturally quite a conservative coach, which in a nervous environment with players lacking in confidence (as it has been here since LJ left) isn't a good thing. As with Kelly and Dunn, I think he's been thrown in at the deep end too soon in his coaching career. Of course they aren't going to turn down the opportunity when offered it, but it was up to the board to realise that they weren't ready for the responsibility. Harvey would've been at least adequate to help all of them develop, which is why alarm bells were ringing for me when he was let go so soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 If Dunn doesn't understand that ironing out individual errors is a big part of what makes/made Ferguson and Mourinho great managers he really does need to do something else for a living - not that he'll necessarily have a choice in the matter now..... Is it? I'd have thought their main attribute was the ability to man manage big ego players on ludicrous salaries! Fergie didn't do much to iron out Taibi's mistakes - just got rid and bought someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Similar with Holden. I'm not unhappy that he's gone, but I don't think he's a terrible coach per se. He was highly rated by Dean Smith when at Walsall who clearly knows what he's doing. Walsall with Dean Holden - mid table Walsall after Dean Holden - promotion challengers Oldham before Dean Holden - playoff contenders Oldham with Dean Holden - relegation candidates Dean Smith certainly knew what he was doing when he let him leave to join us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 He'll be given time by the fans, and slack. And we won't have to sack him if we get relegated. Massive plus points for Corney. And for the morale of everyone really. For example, if Dunn was still in charge he'd be getting crucified for wasting £500 on appealing that card when that money could have gone to a new player. It's Shez, so it's commendable public backing of one of his players. The misrepresentation was wilful, that's my point. When you listened to what he said, or read the quotes it was totallly clear what he meant. But anyway, don't really want to go down this road again! No, I know it was misrepresented, I highlighted it. but the general point was valid, quite a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 You do have to wonder infact you would have to say for definate that neither Dunn or Kelly really had any idea of what they were getting themselves into when they got the job. It's much tougher than football manager and while taking coaching badges and getting experience coaching kids is a good thing it doesn't fully prepare you for standing in the dugout of the 1st team in a stadium and your the one that's in charge and takes responsibility for results. Despite having no managerial experience when Lee Johnson came in you felt the way he spoke he was clearly very well prepared for the job and knew the players and what they needed to do. John Sheridan with his experience of both the club and if management clearly does know what he is getting himself into even though it's a much tougher situation for him to be coming into. He does this time have what is now a decade in football management behind him. But he's going to need help I hope the board are going to back him this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Walsall with Dean Holden - mid table Walsall after Dean Holden - promotion challengers Oldham before Dean Holden - playoff contenders Oldham with Dean Holden - relegation candidates Dean Smith certainly knew what he was doing when he let him leave to join us :censored: it, I don't rate Holden enough to keep defending him after this but I'll bite for one last time. That's ridiculously simplistic. Walsall barely improved at all after Holden left and were on the edge of a relegation scrap for the rest of the season. Of course they've done very well this season but if Holden's so :censored: surely they would've improved dramatically by the end of last season? As for us, it's been done to death already. He's not blameless by any means but most of the blame goes to the people who put him in positions of responsibility that he clearly wasn't ready for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Simon Corney was telling people at least seasons end of season awards that Dunn applied but he came across as a chancer. A handful of months later he is employing him as manager. If we go down...there's only one man to blame. Regards the Dunn arrogance, the straw that broke the camels back for me was when he mocked a BBC journo who dared to point out that it was a record 11 home games without a win (after Colchester). Journo had every right to comment and had Dunn been a manager with a clue, he would have been humble about it and vowed to put it right. Sadly, he didn't have the skills and one nightmare is over...I just hope we can banish the current relegation nightmare we are left with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 :censored: it, I don't rate Holden enough to keep defending him after this but I'll bite for one last time. That's ridiculously simplistic. Walsall barely improved at all after Holden left and were on the edge of a relegation scrap for the rest of the season. Of course they've done very well this season but if Holden's so :censored: surely they would've improved dramatically by the end of last season? As for us, it's been done to death already. He's not blameless by any means but most of the blame goes to the people who put him in positions of responsibility that he clearly wasn't ready for. You forgot to mention all that momentum he left us with....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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