HarryBosch Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said: We are losing our NHS a beacon of light in this country, free healthcare, it is a wonderful thing. Tell me more - they force me to pay for mine and my family's......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 minute ago, HarryBosch said: I don't recognise this country you're telling us you live in. I don't just mean for myself but for friends, family, clients, young, old, poor, ok financially (can't say I know anyone "rich" - apart from Tulsehill maybe & I don't know him very well), working, not working, never worked.... They all seem fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 21 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Labour up in arms about a policy they never felt necessary in 13 years of government. is it right that a couple who earn a combined 100k a year get a free school meal? of course it isn't. is it right that a retired couple living in Knutsford with a heated swimming pool get heating allowance? of course it isn't. 'Up in arms' where? As usual you are taking things down to the most basic level. Its pretty embarassing actually. A miserable manifesto from a miserable leader who has no vision for the improvement of society. It will be cuts cuts and more cuts to justify continuing austerity and now she targets the pensioners to pay for it but only when they are dead. She hasnt got a clue regarding economic policies and no vision for the country. Where is there any hope in this policy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Tell a lie - a few of them have got various health problems. These could probably be eased or maybe even cured if any party would dare to improve and modernise the NHS. No such hope while that remains political suicide though.... #savethenhs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View Of Golden Gate Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: I don't recognise this country you're telling us you live in. I don't just mean for myself but for friends, family, clients, young, old, poor, ok financially (can't say I know anyone "rich" - apart from Tulsehill maybe & I don't know him very well), working, not working, never worked.... They all seem fine. So you are disagreeing that there aren't people struggling? I don't quite understand, I never said everyone, but there are many. In reference to other points, they may have pledged £4bn but is that on top of current spending? If that is the case why are schools being told to cut their budgets? They may have a big plan to spend £4bn a year extra and allow schools to spend as much as they need to within reason, however, they could just be building more grammar schools. We do have free healthcare, certain medication you pay for yes. We even more cuts planned the amount of people who do pay and how much they pay will go up, at least with a more considerate government (which the Tories could be, if they cared to) we would see medication become cheaper and in many cases fully free. The overall point it, can anyone tell me, without some half arsed calculations via excel or a desk calculator, how any of these measures and policies benefit the UK? Can anyone tell me how a total disregard for the EU helps the UK? Can anyone on this forum say their life is better now, because of a policy May has brought in? We may have to agree to disagree on which party is better or worse, that's just one of things. The Tories will most likely win, and I hope I am wrong, I hope May proves to be a great PM, I just haven't seen a single thing that she has done that has made me anything less than fearful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Tell a lie - a few of them have got various health problems. These could probably be eased or maybe even cured if any party would dare to improve and modernise the NHS. No such hope while that remains political suicide though.... #savethenhs Save the NHS has been one of Labour's most successful dog whistles...because they know that the Tories have an unredeemable reputation, which was forged in the late 1940s, and cemented by every single Tory Health Secretary since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, ChaddySmoker said: 'Up in arms' where? As usual you are taking things down to the most basic level. Its pretty embarassing actually. A miserable manifesto from a miserable leader who has no vision for the improvement of society. It will be cuts cuts and more cuts to justify continuing austerity and now she targets the pensioners to pay for it but only when they are dead. She hasnt got a clue regarding economic policies and no vision for the country. Where is there any hope in this policy? Targets the pensioners? Not really. You sir are extremely closed minded. There is literally no point in talking to you. I have a client who says that in his town (Leigh) they would vote labour if a donkey had a red rosette on, that kind of blind loyalty is what is actually embarrassing. I've already told you none of the parties are for me but you ignore that and do what the left does, attack anyone with ideas different to their own. Now, back on the topic... If you are referring to the triple lock, that is a crazy system.. the double lock is enough. If you are referring to the long term care issues then you are naive and dont understand it properly. Edited May 18, 2017 by kowenicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said: So you are disagreeing that there aren't people struggling? I don't quite understand, I never said everyone, but there are many. No, I'm sure many people are - as many people always have done - and any government should do all they can to help. This doesn't apply to the vast majority of people I know. In reference to other points, they may have pledged £4bn but is that on top of current spending? If that is the case why are schools being told to cut their budgets? They may have a big plan to spend £4bn a year extra and allow schools to spend as much as they need to within reason, however, they could just be building more grammar schools. My understanding is it is on top of current spending. I've no idea if it's on Grammar Schools but I think it would be an excellent use of the money if that were the case. We do have free healthcare, No we don't. certain medication you pay for yes. I pay for all my medication & all of my families. I then have to pay again for mine and my wifes. We even more cuts planned Which cuts are these? The overall point it, can anyone tell me, without some half arsed calculations via excel or a desk calculator, how any of these measures and policies benefit the UK? Can anyone tell me how a total disregard for the EU helps the UK? Can anyone on this forum say their life is better now, because of a policy May has brought in? We may have to agree to disagree on which party is better or worse, that's just one of things. The Tories will most likely win, and I hope I am wrong, I hope May proves to be a great PM, I just haven't seen a single thing that she has done that has made me anything less than fearful. I can't imagine she could do a single thing that would make you react any differently. If she swapped policies with Corbyn I'd bet my right bollock you'd still say exactly the same. Edited May 18, 2017 by HarryBosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, 24hoursfromtulsehill said: Save the NHS has been one of Labour's most successful dog whistles...because they know that the Tories have an unredeemable reputation, which was forged in the late 1940s, and cemented by every single Tory Health Secretary since. A deadly dog whistle. Literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, 24hoursfromtulsehill said: Save the NHS has been one of Labour's most successful dog whistles...because they know that the Tories have an unredeemable reputation, which was forged in the late 1940s, and cemented by every single Tory Health Secretary since. Labour have a better recent record? They did the biggest privatisation and burning of cash ever with the massive expansion of PFI. Is that wrong? Edited May 18, 2017 by kowenicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 minute ago, kowenicki said: Targets the pensioners? Not really. You sir are extremely closed minded. There is literally no point in talking to you. I have a client who says that in his town (Leigh) they would vote labour if a donkey had a red rosette on, that kind of blind loyalty is what is actually embarrassing. I've already told you none of the parties are for me but you ignore that and do what the left does, attack anyone with ideas different to their own. Now, back on the topic... If you are referring to the triple lock, that is a crazy system.. the double lock is enough. If you are referring to the long term care issues then you are naive and dont understand it properly. I was glad that you were intending getting back on topic, could you let me know when you do. In the meanwhile I will keep picking you up when you quote the Daily Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: A deadly dog whistle. Literally. That's a bit dramatic for a benign Thursday afternoon. You been out for lunch? 8 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Labour have a better recent record? They did the biggest privatisation and burning of cash ever with the massive expansion of PPF. Is that wrong? I would say yes, they do. I don't recall anyone burning any cash though. The Tories introduced the necessity of PFI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, 24hoursfromtulsehill said: That's a bit dramatic for a benign Thursday afternoon. You been out for lunch? . Nope. I'm off out for an early tea in a minute though - stay tuned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 21 minutes ago, 24hoursfromtulsehill said: That's a bit dramatic for a benign Thursday afternoon. You been out for lunch? I would say yes, they do. I don't recall anyone burning any cash though. The Tories introduced the necessity of PFI. So? Labour went crazy with PFI. That's undeniable. It wasn't a necessity at all. That's just a cop out. They did it because that's what Labour does. Signs up to massive debts every single time they get power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 36 minutes ago, ChaddySmoker said: I was glad that you were intending getting back on topic, could you let me know when you do. In the meanwhile I will keep picking you up when you quote the Daily Mail. I dont read the mail. You obviously do as you know everything they say. So you disagree with me about triple lock? Can you actually explain why or will it be another cheap empty shot? So... why is the triple lock required and why is the double lock not adequate? Go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, kowenicki said: So? Labour went crazy with PFI. That's undeniable. It wasn't a necessity at all. That's just a cop out. They did it because that's what Labour does. Signs up to massive debts every single time they get power. It is y'know. What makes you think the Tories haven't signed us up to massive debts every time they've been in power? If you shut down your voting options because of the national debt...you'll end up with no one to vote for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, leeslover said: May's Conservatism would have been slightly left of centre in New Labour. Corbyn's legacy might be to have vacated so much Labour space that she changed her party to move into it. I think she has had to placate the UKIP side of her party, and unfortunately done so surprisingly well. So she could have stayed more middle of the road, but has taken quite a sharp right turn. I find people that are now switching to Tory from Labour very odd, it's such a chasm now. I don't think many that do that really know what they are voting for and go with the herd. Edited May 18, 2017 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 51 minutes ago, kowenicki said: I dont read the mail. You obviously do as you know everything they say. So you disagree with me about triple lock? Can you actually explain why or will it be another cheap empty shot? So... why is the triple lock required and why is the double lock not adequate? Go! I was never discussing the triple lock. One does not need to read the Daily Mail to know how it has/is going to phrase the wording. Can we just summarise how your contribution today has been phrased? Your first post seemed to be accusing the Labour party of going mad (which they weren't) about something in the Tory manifesto. You then quoted 2 rather flimsy extreme examples in favour of the Tory party policy. I replied to basically take the piss and you accused me of being 'closed minded' and you quoted some idiot in Leigh!!!!! You then insist that we discuss my points regarding the triple lock which I hadn't posted about at all. It's no wonder that you are a Tory! Theresa May has no vision-she is purely a reactionary stop gap leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 51 minutes ago, singe said: I think she has had to placate the UKIP side of her party, and unfortunately done so surprisingly well. So she could have stayed more middle of the road, but has taken quite a sharp right turn. I find people that are now switching to Tory from Labour very odd, it's such a chasm now. I don't think many that do that really know what they are voting for and go with the herd. She hasn't though, she's turned sharply to the left. Ed Milliband's plan to dictate energy prices, explicity advocating industrial policy, praising the collective above individual rights, enhanced worker rights, abandoning deficit reduction. It's closer to Ted Heath than Margaret Thatcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Conservatives:Look, uncosted manifestos, you can't trust them with the economy. Conservatives: Here's our uncosted manifesto after 7 years of increasing debt, after promising to eliminate it, and who k own what Brexit costs to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 17 minutes ago, leeslover said: She hasn't though, she's turned sharply to the left. Ed Milliband's plan to dictate energy prices, explicity advocating industrial policy, praising the collective above individual rights, enhanced worker rights, abandoning deficit reduction. It's closer to Ted Heath than Margaret Thatcher. It is quite skill to be thought going both ways! I'm thinking more about the quotas for immigration, reducing benefits such as school meals, paring back pensions, lifting the ban on grammar schools, charging migrant workers and Int. students to use the NHS, fix hunting repealed, exiting the Customs union and Single Market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 hour ago, singe said: It is quite skill to be thought going both ways! I'm thinking more about the quotas for immigration, reducing benefits such as school meals, paring back pensions, lifting the ban on grammar schools, charging migrant workers and Int. students to use the NHS, fix hunting repealed, exiting the Customs union and Single Market. Are immigration quotas right wing? It's not a policy change and it doesn't seem to putting former Labour voters off, however silly. Who gives a shit that average families need to give their kids their lunch money? Pensions is one of two things I can take some pleasure from in this. The retired are course to become massively richer than working people as it stands and it's not possibly sustainable. It probably took any party confident of a big majority to dare to say so and risk angering the keenest voters. Don't know the details of charging migrant workers and students for the NHS. Not a vote lose in an average union meeting I'd guess. Fox hunting won't ever pass and won't be a government policy. It's a sop to the old blokes in Tory associations to make them feel better about all the rest. Leaving the customs union and Mrs Thatcher's Single Market is neither left or right wing. It's the result of the referendum and is supported by noted right wingers like Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell, as it was by Tony Benn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 hour ago, singe said: It is quite skill to be thought going both ways! I'm thinking more about the quotas for immigration, reducing benefits such as school meals, paring back pensions, lifting the ban on grammar schools, charging migrant workers and Int. students to use the NHS, fix hunting repealed, exiting the Customs union and Single Market. She has the room to manoeuvre, UKIP is a political non-entity so there's no barrier on the right. Labour are heading that way and have lurched further left so she can pick and choose popular policies. I'm good with a hint of bad. As others have said, why should the Rooney kids get a free school meal and why should 'Sir' Alex get the winter fuel allowance? Equally, why should someone on benefits have one or even two spare bedrooms? On both counts it's more than they are entitled to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Lefties: "we hate old folk & the rich!" Theresa May: *takes fuel allowance off rich pensioners* Lefties: "Tories are killing pensioners!" (stolen from Twitter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 If you're unemployed due to an actual disability then rightly you should get benefits. I hate when the unemployed are just put in one group. If you haven't got a job and are fit to work then you're fucking lazy or picky. Plenty of jobs out there. Don't deserve a penny of my hard earned taxes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.