HarryBosch Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 9 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: You seem to live in a world without national insurance - I can point you to the hmrc calculator I use if you like. Sorry, yes you did also say NI looking back at your post. Whoever originally brought it up didn't. NI = £1420 on £20k £5520 on £100k £28700 + £5520 = £34220 £1700 + £1420 = £3120 £34220/£3120 = 10.96 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 2 hours ago, View Of Golden Gate said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/30/disabled-readers-austerity-disability-cuts Someone read this and tell me the cuts are for the best, and explain how. Don't say this is just three extreme cases, because I know of people are suffering because of cuts. Has May and/or her friends and family suffered? Have Tory benefactors suffered? Tell me how this is the society you not only want to live in, but will actively pursue? Tell me it is not time for a change, this government is broken. No-one can tell me why the Tories are the correct choice, the main argument is that they are the best of a bad bunch. Labour are trying to be positive, trying to inspire and grow. The Tories are cutting more and more, what happens when we stop overspending? Do we magically have the ability to start spending more? Or do they stay at the same depressing rate? This government are not trying to grow, they are trying to survive election by election. Problem is that is leaving some just trying to survive day to day, ask May and her cohorts how she intends to help. I didn't want to highlight as much of your post but I think we're on the same page. We're in a Gallowayian state of having to chose between two cheeks of the same arse whilst getting shafted up our own arse by a perceived choice of 10 inchers with varying amounts of lube. None of the parties should've produced manifestos that cover more than 6 months as shit happens, Brexit, Trump, Arena bomb, Bataclan, oil price crash, German elections, Putin.... anything can have a profound effect on what happens here yet British politics thinks it operates in a bubble separate to global events. The electorate divide themselves into 1/4 not giving a toss, 1/4 blue, 1/4 red and 1/4 float. The parties rely on core support, old tired lines like Labour always leave a mess, Tories underinvest or all as bad as each other and we lap it up whilst occasionally having a different set of stuffed shirts trying to get the real adults, the Civil Service who actually run shit to implement policies that won't work in the world we actually live in. Where are the ideas guys? What does the result look like? What does the society look like that you are trying to create? What's your plan for convincing other nation states to sign-up to your vision? Or is it actually that you don't have any plan and are just seeking to be elected to continue the status quo? We get dragged into the minutia of £billion here or %of GDP there and acheive fuck all apart from managerialism whilst Rome burns and the Titanic still sinks regardless of where the deckchairs are. Still, whilst we keep arguing amongst ourselves against our collective better interests and get shit thrown at us like multi-room Sky, iPhones with bigger screens, avocados in January and toothpaste that guarantees white teeth we appear to be happy so why should anything change whilst the turkeys still vote for xmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 You can agree or disagree with the politics but this is bloody funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 1 hour ago, HarryBosch said: Look up Tennessee..... I completely buy the concept. It's trusting politicians to apply it optimally that's the problem. Osborne did a good job of getting it pretty much right with corporation tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 1 hour ago, ChaddySmoker said: I can give you his name if you like. Talking bollocks again, Harry Like other shareholders. Self employed / shareholders. Wtf are you talking about. You are also confusing revenue and profit. Yes a good accountant should be able to use tax allowances and deductibles to reduce gross profit for a self employed individual. But if the final profit after this is 100k then that's it. You will pay tax on that. There is no alchemy to avoiding tax on those earnings unless you want to commit a crime. You haven't got a clue in taxation and finance. Luckily it's my field so I can help you and educate you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 2 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: Only last month the treasury had to borrow £10 billion and since 2010 the debt has jumped substantially from around £900million to £1.7 trillion. If Tories lose this election that will be part of their legacy. No government has borrowed more money in the history of the UK. On a more pragmatic note it would be fair to say whichever government come in is going to put taxes as up as public finances are struggling. Again. Whoosh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 15 hours ago, mikeroyboy said: Is there any publication or anybody unbiased in this election? Apart from the few million uninterested. Private Eye I suppose, I've kicked all the papers in the bollocks - the Eye is all I read now. EDIT: Global Witness as well, it's a new find - the jury is still out. More global corruption, but it all roads run through Whitehall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 17 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Self employed / shareholders. Wtf are you talking about. You are also confusing revenue and profit. Yes a good accountant should be able to use tax allowances and deductibles to reduce gross profit for a self employed individual. But if the final profit after this is 100k then that's it. You will pay tax on that. There is no alchemy to avoiding tax on those earnings unless you want to commit a crime. You haven't got a clue in taxation and finance. Luckily it's my field so I can help you and educate you. Wow. Aren't we grateful. I've been FD of 4 £10m plus turnover companies and I'm a NED on the Board of 2 others so I'm alright for the lessons thanks. Chaddy Smokers point referencing my post was clearly talking about a self employed person earning (revenue not profit) £100k a year. I think you can assume I understand the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_lead Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I often despair, but am not surprised, at how many in our society accept with barely a shrug of the shoulders the shite we are served by successive governments over recent generations. We seem to have grown up believing that we are a great country with a democracy and values that we should hold close to our chest and be proud of. If you look past a MSM that feed many of our beliefs the reality is that our 6th wealthiest economy in the world is: 4th most unequal society in the world 2nd lowest paid out of all advanced economies highest level of disabled poor in europe one of lowest levels of production of all advanced nations one of worst balance of trades of all advanced nations one of only 2 countries of all advanced economies in OECD that have seen a drop in industrial output over last 30 years other than Lithuania, have the worst workers rights of the 27 EU countries All the above are linked. If you have no voice at work, if you put a stranglehold on Trade Unions, if you have an economic system that allows people that work to have no say or control in their lives, you will end up with a low pay economy. When you get a low pay economy you get an unequal economy. When you get an unequal economy you will get Tax problems because people on low wages cannot pay Tax, therefore you get bad public services. Since 1979 successive Governments, and I include the Blair years in this, have been applying right of centre policies. I would say that the above results are as clear a statement as you need to demonstrate that a dramatic change of direction is required. Wherever you intend to put your cross, its time we all started getting more engaged in politics and demanding more from those that represent us, rather than arguing amongst ourselves about which way we want shafted. It does not have to be this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 15 minutes ago, joe_lead said: I often despair, but am not surprised, at how many in our society accept with barely a shrug of the shoulders the shite we are served by successive governments over recent generations. We seem to have grown up believing that we are a great country with a democracy and values that we should hold close to our chest and be proud of. If you look past a MSM that feed many of our beliefs the reality is that our 6th wealthiest economy in the world is: 4th most unequal society in the world 2nd lowest paid out of all advanced economies highest level of disabled poor in europe one of lowest levels of production of all advanced nations one of worst balance of trades of all advanced nations one of only 2 countries of all advanced economies in OECD that have seen a drop in industrial output over last 30 years other than Lithuania, have the worst workers rights of the 27 EU countries All the above are linked. If you have no voice at work, if you put a stranglehold on Trade Unions, if you have an economic system that allows people that work to have no say or control in their lives, you will end up with a low pay economy. When you get a low pay economy you get an unequal economy. When you get an unequal economy you will get Tax problems because people on low wages cannot pay Tax, therefore you get bad public services. Since 1979 successive Governments, and I include the Blair years in this, have been applying right of centre policies. I would say that the above results are as clear a statement as you need to demonstrate that a dramatic change of direction is required. Wherever you intend to put your cross, its time we all started getting more engaged in politics and demanding more from those that represent us, rather than arguing amongst ourselves about which way we want shafted. It does not have to be this way. I've been in more than 3 countries which suggest that your first fact is extravagantly untrue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 46 minutes ago, joe_lead said: I often despair, but am not surprised, at how many in our society accept with barely a shrug of the shoulders the shite we are served by successive governments over recent generations. We seem to have grown up believing that we are a great country with a democracy and values that we should hold close to our chest and be proud of. If you look past a MSM that feed many of our beliefs the reality is that our 6th wealthiest economy in the world is: 4th most unequal society in the world 2nd lowest paid out of all advanced economies highest level of disabled poor in europe one of lowest levels of production of all advanced nations one of worst balance of trades of all advanced nations one of only 2 countries of all advanced economies in OECD that have seen a drop in industrial output over last 30 years other than Lithuania, have the worst workers rights of the 27 EU countries All the above are linked. If you have no voice at work, if you put a stranglehold on Trade Unions, if you have an economic system that allows people that work to have no say or control in their lives, you will end up with a low pay economy. When you get a low pay economy you get an unequal economy. When you get an unequal economy you will get Tax problems because people on low wages cannot pay Tax, therefore you get bad public services. Since 1979 successive Governments, and I include the Blair years in this, have been applying right of centre policies. I would say that the above results are as clear a statement as you need to demonstrate that a dramatic change of direction is required. Wherever you intend to put your cross, its time we all started getting more engaged in politics and demanding more from those that represent us, rather than arguing amongst ourselves about which way we want shafted. It does not have to be this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 48 minutes ago, joe_lead said: I often despair, but am not surprised, at how many in our society accept with barely a shrug of the shoulders the shite we are served by successive governments over recent generations. We seem to have grown up believing that we are a great country with a democracy and values that we should hold close to our chest and be proud of. If you look past a MSM that feed many of our beliefs the reality is that our 6th wealthiest economy in the world is: 4th most unequal society in the world 2nd lowest paid out of all advanced economies highest level of disabled poor in europe one of lowest levels of production of all advanced nations one of worst balance of trades of all advanced nations one of only 2 countries of all advanced economies in OECD that have seen a drop in industrial output over last 30 years other than Lithuania, have the worst workers rights of the 27 EU countries All the above are linked. If you have no voice at work, if you put a stranglehold on Trade Unions, if you have an economic system that allows people that work to have no say or control in their lives, you will end up with a low pay economy. When you get a low pay economy you get an unequal economy. When you get an unequal economy you will get Tax problems because people on low wages cannot pay Tax, therefore you get bad public services. Since 1979 successive Governments, and I include the Blair years in this, have been applying right of centre policies. I would say that the above results are as clear a statement as you need to demonstrate that a dramatic change of direction is required. Wherever you intend to put your cross, its time we all started getting more engaged in politics and demanding more from those that represent us, rather than arguing amongst ourselves about which way we want shafted. It does not have to be this way. Things aren't perfect and we should never stop trying to improve things, especially for the vulnerable, but - the vast majority of people in this country, especially working class people (of which I am one), are living unprecedentedly wonderful lives our parents and grandparents would never have even dreamt possible. Our poorest people are amongst the richest on the planet and the richest humans who've ever lived. Give your head a wobble. We are very, very, very lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 48 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Things aren't perfect and we should never stop trying to improve things, especially for the vulnerable, but - the vast majority of people in this country, especially working class people (of which I am one), are living unprecedentedly wonderful lives our parents and grandparents would never have even dreamt possible. Our poorest people are amongst the richest on the planet and the richest humans who've ever lived. We are very, very, very lucky. The thing is, you're comparing 21st century society as we know it, with sticking kids up chimneys and picking weevils out of bread. We've moved on, the bar has been raised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 15 minutes ago, rummytheowl said: The thing is, you're comparing 21st century society as we know it, with sticking kids up chimneys and picking weevils out of bread. We've moved on, the bar has been raised. You need to be careful with the sticking kids up chimneys stuff, May is probably looking for more archaic policies to sit alongside the reintroduction of fox hunting and supporting the ivory trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 27 minutes ago, rummytheowl said: The thing is, you're comparing 21st century society as we know it, with sticking kids up chimneys and picking weevils out of bread. We've moved on, the bar has been raised. Tell that to hungry orphans in Africa, women in Saudi Arabia, Christians in Syria, Haiti, Chile, North Korea... the list is endless. The fact we can squabble over a penny here or there on income tax, the adequacy and amount of public handouts and even 67p on a fucking school meal means that, in the context of a massive number of people across the globe TODAY, we are very very very VERY, damned lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_lead Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 2 hours ago, leeslover said: I've been in more than 3 countries which suggest that your first fact is extravagantly untrue you're correct I missed out Americas we're 7th in the OECD report Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, joe_lead said: you're correct I missed out Americas we're 7th in the OECD report To quote Harry, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_lead Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 1 hour ago, HarryBosch said: Things aren't perfect and we should never stop trying to improve things, especially for the vulnerable, but - the vast majority of people in this country, especially working class people (of which I am one), are living unprecedentedly wonderful lives our parents and grandparents would never have even dreamt possible. Our poorest people are amongst the richest on the planet and the richest humans who've ever lived. Give your head a wobble. We are very, very, very lucky. Are you seriously justifying todays unfair distribution of wealth because it was worse in the Victorian times? Very, very, very lucky ........ is that how you see it? No offence like but St Jude would have her work cut out with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 6 hours ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: Wow. Aren't we grateful. I've been FD of 4 £10m plus turnover companies and I'm a NED on the Board of 2 others so I'm alright for the lessons thanks. Chaddy Smokers point referencing my post was clearly talking about a self employed person earning (revenue not profit) £100k a year. I think you can assume I understand the difference. Wasnt talking to you. But my point stands... as it's correct, as you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 39 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: You need to be careful with the sticking kids up chimneys stuff, May is probably looking for more archaic policies to sit alongside the reintroduction of fox hunting and supporting the ivory trade. Jesus. Wouldn't let you anywhere near my company... and yes I have one. Hyperbole and lies... that's the left for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Jesus. Wouldn't let you anywhere near my company... and yes I have one. Hyperbole and lies... that's the left for you. For that at least I shall remain eternally grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Wasnt talking to you. But my point stands... as it's correct, as you know. Sorry I didn't realise you were having a personal conversation on a public message board. My post was referenced by CS and you refuted it. You know as well as I do, because I know several of them personally, that self employed contractors earning upwards of £70k a year pay virtually no tax, despite having very few actual business overheads. They just have good Accountants. If you deny that you are either lying or really don't understand your supposed expertise. Which is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Jesus. Wouldn't let you anywhere near my company... and yes I have one. Hyperbole and lies... that's the left for you. I'm sure I'll say this again, those aren't traits exclusive to the left of politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 38 minutes ago, blueatheart said: Tell that to hungry orphans in Africa, women in Saudi Arabia, Christians in Syria, Haiti, Chile, North Korea... the list is endless. The fact we can squabble over a penny here or there on income tax, the adequacy and amount of public handouts and even 67p on a fucking school meal means that, in the context of a massive number of people across the globe TODAY, we are very very very VERY, damned lucky. Yeah, and I'll print that off and take it down to Petrus and we'll all have a laugh about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, rummytheowl said: Yeah, and I'll print that off and take it down to Petrus and we'll all have a laugh about it. I'll criticise people for their choices but they should be helped and society and government can and are doing that. To take Harry's point further, what would have happened to them in the 1960s, 1920s or 1860s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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