General Election - 8th June 2017

[frizzell54]

Corbyn has set himself up as Father Christmas, promising only the rich will pay.  It will not happen.  Beware the politics of envy.

 

Came across this and thought it was pertinent in light hearted way.

 

Suppose that every week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay £1. The sixth would pay £3. The seventh would pay £7. The eighth would pay £12. The ninth would pay £18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

But then the Government put a 20% tax on beer. So now the men would have to pay £120.

The first four men (the poorest) would still pay nothing. The fifth would pay £1.20. The sixth would pay £3.60. The seventh would pay £8.40. The eighth would pay £14.40. The ninth would pay £21.60. The tenth man (the richest) would pay £70.80

But the richest man sat down for a moment, thought about things then decided he didn’t want to go to the pub any more. That left the nine others with a bill for £108.

The four poorest men didn’t care that the richest man wasn’t coming any more as they would still get their beer free. So, even though the price of beer had gone up, it didn’t worry them. But the others were not quite so happy. The fifth man saw his bill rise from £1 to £2.63. The sixth now had to pay £7.90 – a big increase from the previous £3. The seventh was faced with a bill of £18.40 – significantly more than the £7 he paid previously. The eighth saw his contribution shoot up from £12 to £31.60. And the ninth almost had a heart attack when he was faced with a bill of £47.41 – an awful lot more than the £18 he had contributed before the richest man pulled out of the arrangement.

After the ninth man returned home that night and told his wife that he was now paying £47.41 instead of just £18, she suggested that he stop going to the pub and take up golf instead.

A week later, the remaining eight made their habitual pub visit. Their bill was now £96. The poorest four, of course, still paid nothing. But for the others that visit was not a happy experience. Man number five was now paying £4.17 compared to just £1 when there were ten men. Number six saw his share jump from £3 to £12.52. Number seven almost fell over in shock as he had to pay £29.22, over four times more than the £7 he had paid originally. As for man number eight, when he saw his bill rise from £12 to £50, he decided that he too no longer wished to go to the pub.

The following week, when they went for their beers, men number five, six and seven were so shocked at the size of their bill that they decided to stop going to the pub.

As for the four poorest men, who had been so enthusiastic about the richer men paying more, they now had nobody to pay for their beers.

[kowenicki]

Corbyn should have stayed away from this. It's backfired a bit.

 

The faciliator for this debate is woeful though. 

 

The debate itself is a mess, just a load of people shouting at each other. 

 

The audience is NOT typical either.  Loud applause and cheers for unilateral disarmament. Yeah right. 

[mikeroyboy]

3 hours ago, Stevie_J said:

Account for inflation and the two aren't all that different.  Also, this doesn't account for other benefits such as tax credits.

 

The IFS recently produced a report which suggested the growth in living standards is at its lowest in 60 years and that the average household will be 20% worse off by 2021.  We have a shameful number of children living in poverty in the UK with expectations being that this increase significantly over the next few years.

 

I'm struggling to see that the poorest in our society are being looked after by the Tories.

 

65yrs ago I had one pair of pants (darned), two pair of socks (darned) 2 jumpers (darned), 2 shirts, one jacket (darned) one all-weather coat (not waterproof), one pair of shoes and a bloody cap. Every year something was replaced at Whitsuntide, us kids made a few bob and were always smart for best. The only things in the house electrical were the lights, the radio and an iron. The evening meal was varied though. Egg and chips, sausage and chips/mash, baked beans and chips/mash, home made cheese and onion pie, tata hash and an odd chop. Anything cheap on a butty was lunch, apart from jam a sauce butty was one of my favorites.  And my father was working.

 

You, may be joking or exaggerating with the last sentence - but I'm not.

 

Too many people today are swinging the lead and quite comfortable.

[HarryBosch]

3 hours ago, Stevie_J said:

Account for inflation and the two aren't all that different.  

 

 

 

[ChaddySmoker]

After the leaders debate (well some of them) the front page of the Daily Mail tomorrow claims BIAS.

Is this the new definition of Irony?

 

[mikeroyboy]

1 hour ago, ChaddySmoker said:

After the leaders debate (well some of them) the front page of the Daily Mail tomorrow claims BIAS.

Is this the new definition of Irony?

 

 

Is there any publication or anybody unbiased in this election? Apart from the few million uninterested.

[UsedtobeWozzer]

6 hours ago, mikeroyboy said:

 

Is there any publication or anybody unbiased in this election? Apart from the few million uninterested.

Admittedly not a publication but the BBC are supposed to be although I don't think Kuenssberg (sp?) has been told.

[UsedtobeWozzer]

11 hours ago, kowenicki said:

Corbyn should have stayed away from this. It's backfired a bit.

 

The faciliator for this debate is woeful though. 

 

The debate itself is a mess, just a load of people shouting at each other. 

 

The audience is NOT typical either.  Loud applause and cheers for unilateral disarmament. Yeah right. 

Backfired more than not turning up? Or sending your Home Secretary in your place 2 days after her father's died? Complaining of left wing bias? Keep going pal it's fucking hilarious this.

[blueatheart]

6 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said:

Backfired more than not turning up? Or sending your Home Secretary in your place 2 days after her father's died? Complaining of left wing bias? Keep going pal it's fucking hilarious this.

That audience was not evenly split. Either that or my point from earlier in the thread, about vocal lefties, stands.

 

May had more to lose by turning up, Corbyn only decided on a wing and a prayer yesterday.

 

Besides, where was Nicola Sturgeon? #lesserspottedleaders

[ChaddySmoker]

33 minutes ago, blueatheart said:

That audience was not evenly split. Either that or my point from earlier in the thread, about vocal lefties, stands.

 

May had more to lose by turning up, Corbyn only decided on a wing and a prayer yesterday.

 

Besides, where was Nicola Sturgeon? #lesserspottedleaders

If you want to say judge us on our record, it is best to only do so if your record is not fucking abysmal.

Otherwise even your own supporters may burst out laughing. #lesserspottedleaders is Mrs Mayhem.

When you have a 20 point lead dont bother debating. When you dont well maybe you should think about being seen as a shithouse

 

[GlossopLatic]

More money for grassroots football

 

This hasn't been mentioned yet but it should be mentioned on a football message board corbyn wants to direct some of the TV money to grass roots football. While this probably won't benefit OAFC directly, for the good of grassroots football this is a good thing right?

Edited June 1, 2017 by GlossopLatic

[kowenicki]

Guessing we have a lot of public sector workers here... 

[kowenicki]

Just now, GlossopLatic said:

More money for grassroots football

 

This hasn't been mentioned yet but it should be mentioned on a football message board corbyn wants to direct some of the TV money to grass roots football. While this probably won't benefit OAFC for the good of grassroots football this is a good thing right?

 

Hes insisting that the prem league give 5% to grass roots football. Unfortunately he didn't check... they already do! 

[View Of Golden Gate]

Defend May all you want but she isn't talking to people, her people are checking political leanings before she meets anyone, she is avoiding anyone who may give her a hard time. She gives the death stare look at anyone who questions her supreme leadership. her policies are uncosted. This is an election she called, how can they not have not costed their own policies for their own election? Ill prepared for a decision they made, how are they going to be ready to deal with Brexit? The only policy that has any costs attached says that childrens' breakfast will be 67p each, let that sink in.

 

Experts say 6 million will lose their winter fuel allowance, 6 million. She is yet to say what the cap for the Dementia Tax will be, a policy she has already backtracked on. She hasn't given any aims for Brexit besides leave, tell me does that mean in the days after the election we will be stable? The Home Secretary she sent to the debate last night believes police officers are paid £40,000 a year, their basic is less than £20,000 in many cases. Is she saying that many are getting £20,000+  a year in overtime? Nurses are going to food banks, there is such a thing as a food bank. Homelessness has gone up, over 150,000 reported to be suffering from malnutrition in hospitals in 2015. 

 

Families cannot feed themselves, immigration targets are failed every year (non EU members), May fought against equal rights for homosexuals. Tell me is this woman the person you want to 'lead?' Tell me why, she is the right choice. Please give me a reason not to be afraid of this woman, give me a reason to be fearful of five years with this woman at the helm.

[GlossopLatic]

17 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

 

Hes insisting that the prem league give 5% to grass roots football. Unfortunately he didn't check... they already do! 

 

Once the full rights package is done it's only 3.6% so taking that upto 5% is worth several million more to grassroots football.

[blueatheart]

5 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said:

Snip

 

We've had the debates about foodbanks. We've had some debate on the so call Dementia Tax. I've not heard a dicky bird about the garden tax yet. As for 67p a meal, mass produced meals should be cheap. I could make myself breakfast for 67p, I should hope a large organisation like a school some be able to do similar, if not better. The bloated public sector is only just coming to terms with the fact that they should be run like a business. The NHS has cut front line services in favour of retaining back-office senior managers.

 

Corbyn invited his 'friends' Hamas to the house of commons, he has repeatedly denied meeting with IRA terrorists despite being pictured with them on a number of occasions. He has voted against every single bit of terrorism legislation since he entered parliament over 30 years ago. His 'costed' manifesto includes expenditure that will quickly send national debt soaring with little benefit. He supports the scrapping of Trident, his party does not yet the only way he will get into government is being propped up by the Trident scrapping SNP. Tell me is this man the person you want to 'lead?' Tell me why, he is the right choice. Please give me a reason not to be afraid of this man, give me a reason not to be fearful of five years with this man at the helm.

 

So you tell me why we should let Labour spend again? Becuase the Tories will only have to sort it out again in another five or ten years time.

[opinions4u]

20 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said:

Experts say 6 million will lose their winter fuel allowance, 6 million.

[opinions4u]

I'm sat here somewhat perplexed at things.  The country can't balance its books.  We spend more than we earn and every party is committed to doing that for years to come.  No party has realistic costings in their manifesto.  The history of mankind shows great civilisations collapsing under the weight of debt and every party here wants more of it.

 

Fuel allowance given to all.  No matter how well off they are.  Taking this away from those who have their own perfectly adequate private pensions.  Seems quite socialist to me.  And for a country in deficit rather sensible.

 

Dementia tax.  Ensuring the better off pay more for their care so that lower income taxpayers don't have to subsidise them.  I think Andy Burnham proposed the same thing.

 

Giving everybody breakfast at school.  Seems quite ridiculous that the state should be feeding our kids croissants and cornflakes.  Let alone free school lunches across the board.  Very nice, but not something the public purse should pay for where there's no individual need.

 

The average cost of employing a single copper is around £40k a year.  Including overtime, very expensive pension and NI costs, training, cars, uniforms etc.  

 

Nurses going to food banks?  They should be provided budgeting lessons then.  I'm sorry, but the odd nurse grabbing a freebie from a charity collection does not tell a story about the nation or the nursing profession.  It tells a story about one nurse.

 

I probably won't be around at the next election.  I'm not a candidate and don't need to make populist noises.  But if nobody has a real commitment to balancing the books the nation has far bigger problems ahead.

 

 

 

[View Of Golden Gate]

21 minutes ago, blueatheart said:

 

We've had the debates about foodbanks. We've had some debate on the so call Dementia Tax. I've not heard a dicky bird about the garden tax yet. As for 67p a meal, mass produced meals should be cheap. I could make myself breakfast for 67p, I should hope a large organisation like a school some be able to do similar, if not better. The bloated public sector is only just coming to terms with the fact that they should be run like a business. The NHS has cut front line services in favour of retaining back-office senior managers.

 

Corbyn invited his 'friends' Hamas to the house of commons, he has repeatedly denied meeting with IRA terrorists despite being pictured with them on a number of occasions. He has voted against every single bit of terrorism legislation since he entered parliament over 30 years ago. His 'costed' manifesto includes expenditure that will quickly send national debt soaring with little benefit. He supports the scrapping of Trident, his party does not yet the only way he will get into government is being propped up by the Trident scrapping SNP. Tell me is this man the person you want to 'lead?' Tell me why, he is the right choice. Please give me a reason not to be afraid of this man, give me a reason not to be fearful of five years with this man at the helm.

 

So you tell me why we should let Labour spend again? Becuase the Tories will only have to sort it out again in another five or ten years time.

 

The Garden Tax details have yet to be announced, what has been said it will be on unused land. As in land that people own but are doing nothing with, that is subject to change. 

 

I challenge you to make a healthy, filling balanced breakfast for 67p. You cannot eat anything afterwards until after 12pm, which is what children will have to deal with. Some won't eat again until the evening, the Tories have already been told it will cost treble what they have set aside for.

 

Do I defend his IRA links? Not even for a moment, can someone change their political leanings in 20 years? Of course, has it been said anywhere he even supported the IRA bombings? I have seen it reported he sympathized with their struggles, and we have to accept there was wrong and evil on both sides. Is it wrong to try and talk to Hamas to try and achieve peace? When the Good Friday agreement was signed (by Labour), was that done via more violence or talking? As for Trident is wanting a to rid the country and the world of chemical weapons a bad thing? Do you really believe any leader evil and crazy enough to use one against us is put off by the fact we have one? 

 

Also is it in the manifesto? No because it is  not what the party and the country want, yet if May wants something she doesn't even consult her cabinet. Bit Dictatorish for my liking, let's also ask who took 20,000 police off the streets despite warnings it was a threat to national security. Who opposes the Human Rights Act? The Workers Rights Act? Equality for Homosexuals? 

 

Final point, have the Tories sorted this mess out, or has their continued cuts somehow led to a higher National Debt? 

[UsedtobeWozzer]

33 minutes ago, blueatheart said:

 

We've had the debates about foodbanks. We've had some debate on the so call Dementia Tax. I've not heard a dicky bird about the garden tax yet. As for 67p a meal, mass produced meals should be cheap. I could make myself breakfast for 67p, I should hope a large organisation like a school some be able to do similar, if not better. The bloated public sector is only just coming to terms with the fact that they should be run like a business. The NHS has cut front line services in favour of retaining back-office senior managers.

 

Corbyn invited his 'friends' Hamas to the house of commons, he has repeatedly denied meeting with IRA terrorists despite being pictured with them on a number of occasions. He has voted against every single bit of terrorism legislation since he entered parliament over 30 years ago. His 'costed' manifesto includes expenditure that will quickly send national debt soaring with little benefit. He supports the scrapping of Trident, his party does not yet the only way he will get into government is being propped up by the Trident scrapping SNP. Tell me is this man the person you want to 'lead?' Tell me why, he is the right choice. Please give me a reason not to be afraid of this man, give me a reason not to be fearful of five years with this man at the helm.

 

So you tell me why we should let Labour spend again? Becuase the Tories will only have to sort it out again in another five or ten years time.

67 p yes. Unfortunately you've overstated May's figure by a power of 10. Could you still do it for 6.7p?

[UsedtobeWozzer]

34 minutes ago, blueatheart said:

 

We've had the debates about foodbanks. We've had some debate on the so call Dementia Tax. I've not heard a dicky bird about the garden tax yet. As for 67p a meal, mass produced meals should be cheap. I could make myself breakfast for 67p, I should hope a large organisation like a school some be able to do similar, if not better. The bloated public sector is only just coming to terms with the fact that they should be run like a business. The NHS has cut front line services in favour of retaining back-office senior managers.

 

Corbyn invited his 'friends' Hamas to the house of commons, he has repeatedly denied meeting with IRA terrorists despite being pictured with them on a number of occasions. He has voted against every single bit of terrorism legislation since he entered parliament over 30 years ago. His 'costed' manifesto includes expenditure that will quickly send national debt soaring with little benefit. He supports the scrapping of Trident, his party does not yet the only way he will get into government is being propped up by the Trident scrapping SNP. Tell me is this man the person you want to 'lead?' Tell me why, he is the right choice. Please give me a reason not to be afraid of this man, give me a reason not to be fearful of five years with this man at the helm.

 

So you tell me why we should let Labour spend again? Becuase the Tories will only have to sort it out again in another five or ten years time.

Trying to be impartial for a second (difficult) it's really interesting that most of the criticism of Corbyn is related to his past while much of the criticism of May is based on her future policies. If only we knew whether time travelled backwards or forwards eh?

[blueatheart]

15 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said:

I challenge you to make a healthy, filling balanced breakfast for 67p. You cannot eat anything afterwards until after 12pm, which is what children will have to deal with. Some won't eat again until the evening, the Tories have already been told it will cost treble what they have set aside for.

 

Final point, have the Tories sorted this mess out, or has their continued cuts somehow led to a higher National Debt? 

 

600g box of Cheerios currently £1.65 at tesco. 4 pints of milk (2272ml) £1.00

6 pack of organic bananas £1.39 (ooooh fancy).

 

Cheerios suggested portion is 30g each or 6.9p each with 125ml of milk costing 0.05p

Banana 23p. Call it 30p among friends.

 

With the off-brand stuff and purchasing power of the public sector, even your wozzer mates target of 6.7p could be met.

 

15 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said:

Final point, have the Tories sorted this mess out, or has their continued cuts somehow led to a higher National Debt? 

 

 Do I really need to explain how the deficit works?

 

12 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said:

67 p yes. Unfortunately you've overstated May's figure by a power of 10. Could you still do it for 6.7p?

I didn't ... your San Fran mate did though if thats the case.

Edited June 1, 2017 by blueatheart

[kowenicki]

1 hour ago, View Of Golden Gate said:

Defend May all you want but she isn't talking to people, her people are checking political leanings before she meets anyone, she is avoiding anyone who may give her a hard time. She gives the death stare look at anyone who questions her supreme leadership. her policies are uncosted. This is an election she called, how can they not have not costed their own policies for their own election? Ill prepared for a decision they made, how are they going to be ready to deal with Brexit? The only policy that has any costs attached says that childrens' breakfast will be 67p each, let that sink in.

 

Experts say 6 million will lose their winter fuel allowance, 6 million. She is yet to say what the cap for the Dementia Tax will be, a policy she has already backtracked on. She hasn't given any aims for Brexit besides leave, tell me does that mean in the days after the election we will be stable? The Home Secretary she sent to the debate last night believes police officers are paid £40,000 a year, their basic is less than £20,000 in many cases. Is she saying that many are getting £20,000+  a year in overtime? Nurses are going to food banks, there is such a thing as a food bank. Homelessness has gone up, over 150,000 reported to be suffering from malnutrition in hospitals in 2015. 

 

Families cannot feed themselves, immigration targets are failed every year (non EU members), May fought against equal rights for homosexuals. Tell me is this woman the person you want to 'lead?' Tell me why, she is the right choice. Please give me a reason not to be afraid of this woman, give me a reason to be fearful of five years with this woman at the helm.

 

With respect, if a nurse (even on a starting qualified salary of 21k) is going to a food bank then there is something else going on in their lives. 

 

The police starting salary is 20k so ONLY police in their first year earn that. 

 

And ANOTHER person who doesn't understand deficit and debt. It's becoming tiresome.

 

Thd left lie repeatedly and expect nobody to check. 

 

Corbyn isnt doing the rounds rounds at all. Public meetings are ALWAYS with momentum in attendance. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by kowenicki

[View Of Golden Gate]

1 minute ago, blueatheart said:

 

600g box of Cheerios currently £1.65 at tesco. 4 pints of milk (2272ml) £1.00

6 pack of organis bananas £1.39 (ooooh fancy).

 

Cheerios suggested portion is 30g each or 6.9p each with 125ml of milk costing 0.05p

Banana 23p. Call it 30p among friends.

 

With the off-brand stuff and purchasing power of the public sector, even your wozzer mates target of 6.7p could be met.

 

 

 Do I really need to explain how the deficit works?

 

I didn't ... your San Fran mate did though if thats the case.

 

Yes I did say 67p so if it is 6.7p that is even more damning, don't you think?

 

Also you asked me about to defend JC about his IRA links, but then don't defend your Supreme Leader's own mistakes. While on the subject, do tell me which party has a former fully paid up IRA member running in one of it's council elections? Who is selling arms to the Saudis? Who use them to drop on children, and sell them to ISIS, so we are indirectly giving ISIS weapons. Don't worry guys, because it is 'good for the industry.' 

 

Are either leaders perfect? No, of course not, but I choose the one who values human life. I'll chose the one who isn't selling the NHS (for those who doubt Tories are, read the Naylor report), I'll choose the one who did not ignore abuse inside a female prison, I'll chose the one who doesn't disagree with Human and Workers rights, I'll choose the one who doesn't want to kill foxes with her mates for fun, I'll choose the one who isn't promoting the sale of ivory, I'll choose the one who doesn't send a grieving colleague onto a Nationally Televised Live TV Debate because she thought she was above it, I'll choose the leader who, misguided or not, is trying to make a positive difference, I'll choose the leader and party who do not believe they are better than the common person, I'll choose the party who want to see growth.

 

You do you brother that is your right, but do not ignore the facts. if you want to vote Tory do it. I will never claim that he is the best thing to ever happen to us, and I'll even admit I did not like him at first. He has, and Labour have won me over, and give the party that tries to win my vote and talk to me, over the party that assumes they already have it.   

[ChaddySmoker]

1 hour ago, blueatheart said:

So you tell me why we should let Labour spend again? Becuase the Tories will only have to sort it out again in another five or ten years time.

I think that you and I have completely different understandings of 'sorting it out again.' There is still an annual deficit. The debt is growing, just be honest!