underdog Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Thanks to singe, I noted that Companies house has been updated with revised info on the 17/18 accounts and now comply with the FRS 102 section 1a, the Trust was pressing on. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04989487/filing-history Thought it deserved it own thread. however Singe link goes direct to the paper work and I can't get it right on her...doh! 18/19 due at the end of this month This is what the share holding entitlement gives you as a fan. An overseer's role to ensure the club at following good governance and being run in a fit and proper manner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticMark Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 On a side note AL's nationality is Moroccan and he lives in the UAE, while ML's is French and he lives in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 I don't do Twitter but a friend has sent me this via FB, from a poster. They have looked at the new update and done summary like Singe. Thought its worth sharing Here's a few thoughts following the publishing of the revised #oafc 2018 financial accounts. Firstly, well done to @_TrustOldham for pushing for the update. Particularly to Philippa who I believe led this. The revised submission tells us much more than the previous version. These are my initial thoughts without a detailed review. I am sure @KieranMaguire will be able to provide some better insight. The amount of change between this and the previous version is stunning and demonstrates why these should be being audited. There are limitations to reviewing the changes as so little information was previously available but the previously reported profit of £5.7m has now been restated down to £2m. Fixed assets have dropped by £1.3m but after taking into account the finance lease that has now been capitalised and the missed depreciation from version 1, the actual reduction is £2.9m which looks to be a write-off to reserves. In the previous version we had reclassified goodwill as a tangible asset . That's a new one to me but it has now been corrected. It looks like a debtor of £1.3m has been written off between the two versions being produced. There is no detail to allow this to be identified. It's notable that the directors loan is £0.7m. Even without the £1.1m increase to the share premium account, this suggests that (based on the amounts AL has said he has invested) he must have written off quite a lot of what he has put in. He should be praised for that. Above all, I am at a loss as to why so many changes were required. What was originally approved and filed did not give an accurate view of what has now been submitted and presumably acknowledged as the true picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Basically then, the previous submitted accounts were 'lets think of some numbers'. Are the numbers any more accurate now? Probably not. Only a full audit as stated above would sort this out, and as the club aren't obliged to do that because of the expense, and they won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Looking forward to the apologists' take on this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Just a load more bullshit from our custodian ’s!! ***********ABDALLAH OUT*********** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 20 hours ago, oafc1955 said: Just a load more bullshit from our custodian ’s!! ***********ABDALLAH OUT*********** I'm in no way apologising for AL, but he only took over half way through this accounting period. These accounts, if anything show that he hadn't a clue what he was buying. They say they found a great deal of debts that weren't documented. Lets see what the 18/19 accounts show. Hopefully they will be more transparent, but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, al_bro said: I'm in no way apologising for AL, but he only took over half way through this accounting period. These accounts, if anything show that he hadn't a clue what he was buying. They say they found a great deal of debts that weren't documented. Lets see what the 18/19 accounts show. Hopefully they will be more transparent, but I doubt it. Kieran Maguire (the Price of Football, University lecturer on football finance) word for word quote this week: "the original accounts claimed Oldham had cash of £262k but the new version it's only £6k. If you don't know how much money you have in your bank account to the nearest quarter of a million then it suggests the balance sheet contains more fiction than a Harry Potter book" The original accounts being posted by the club Financial Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 Trust announced today it has now got its hands on the 18/19 accounts. Well this is an improvement on 12 months ago, when they were submitted to Companies house without consultation and permission. Hoping for continuity of Trust Phillippa seeing them and be good see a like for like comparison of the two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworth blue Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 1 hour ago, al_bro said: I'm in no way apologising for AL, but he only took over half way through this accounting period. These accounts, if anything show that he hadn't a clue what he was buying. They say they found a great deal of debts that weren't documented. Lets see what the 18/19 accounts show. Hopefully they will be more transparent, but I doubt it. I think you are being too fair Al-bro..... he had been advised by the Trust what he was buying and in fairness, it is up to him to be familiar with the requirements of running the club. The frightening turnover of staff off-the-pitch (can understand on the pitch a our level) is an indicator of just what a shit show it has been from day 1 under this owner and his regime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, unsworth blue said: I think you are being too fair Al-bro..... he had been advised by the Trust what he was buying and in fairness, it is up to him to be familiar with the requirements of running the club. The frightening turnover of staff off-the-pitch (can understand on the pitch a our level) is an indicator of just what a shit show it has been from day 1 under this owner and his regime very True what he was buying bit. Trust rep advised the Trust board at the time of the story. Al stood on the terraces, looked out onto the pitch and said he was buying all this. Simon Brooke, Trust rep was the one to tell him that Corney did not own "all this" and told him who did. Al still went ahead with the sale/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, underdog said: very True what he was buying bit. Trust rep advised the Trust board at the time of the story. Al stood on the terraces, looked out onto the pitch and said he was buying all this. Simon Brooke, Trust rep was the one to tell him that Corney did not own "all this" and told him who did. Al still went ahead with the sale/ I meant the financial state of what he was buying, because of alleged hidden debts. Not that he didn't know that he wasn't buying the stadium. There is no excuse for the way he has treated the staff, managers or players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 5 hours ago, al_bro said: I meant the financial state of what he was buying, because of alleged hidden debts. Not that he didn't know that he wasn't buying the stadium. There is no excuse for the way he has treated the staff, managers or players. I still think you are being generous, and the "hidden debts" just PR spin. Blame the last guy. My test is this: will it get any better in the 2018/19 accounts, and even 2019/20 to March? Highly doubful. Don't forget he had been around since Aug 2017, almost 6 months before takeover, with free rein, watching training and Adam Morallees doing the Due Dilligence and paying bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Got a feeling it won’t be too long before Morallee departs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 11 hours ago, singe said: I still think you are being generous, and the "hidden debts" just PR spin. Blame the last guy. My test is this: will it get any better in the 2018/19 accounts, and even 2019/20 to March? Highly doubful. Don't forget he had been around since Aug 2017, almost 6 months before takeover, with free rein, watching training and Adam Morallees doing the Due Dilligence and paying bills. singe, you know how it works so I don't think its unfair to table as a supporter what your expectations are considering: average home crowds of 4,364 'clean' season with no North Stand closures or Fan Boycotts out of the FA Cup in Round 1 no noticeable player transfer revenue A new owner of the club with a new financial director should be looking to 'wash out' any items from the previous owners that could create 'drag' as both of them have no loyalty to previous club financial accounts False pride wouldn't be getting in the way of a robust owner supported by a half decent finance director in ensuring they have a clean slate for the future Hopefully we will see some decent 'exceptional costs' with 'write downs' and 'write offs' to clear the decks, obviously incurring losses Thoughts . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworth blue Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 hours ago, tGWB said: singe, you know how it works so I don't think its unfair to table as a supporter what your expectations are considering: average home crowds of 4,364 'clean' season with no North Stand closures or Fan Boycotts out of the FA Cup in Round 1 no noticeable player transfer revenue A new owner of the club with a new financial director should be looking to 'wash out' any items from the previous owners that could create 'drag' as both of them have no loyalty to previous club financial accounts False pride wouldn't be getting in the way of a robust owner supported by a half decent finance director in ensuring they have a clean slate for the future Hopefully we will see some decent 'exceptional costs' with 'write downs' and 'write offs' to clear the decks, obviously incurring losses Thoughts . . . . . We have fallen massively behind clubs in the locality who are run on crowds much lower than ours (maybe not next season), we have never in my time been run by such a shit regime (and thats saying something) who have managed to lose 25% of its real hard core support over one season and i suspect may lose at least the same again this season. Added to that we have lost sponsors, we have a massive turnover of staff off the pitch (think only Roy is there from before and he is unpaid), we seem to have endless problems paying players and staff on time, we have no training ground of our own, the owner surrounds himself with sycophants and thats just the start. I think if football hadn't been curtailed for league 2, we would have finished lower than 19th (although our home form had improved, our away record had declined and we had some difficult games ahead) and i think with this regime in charge, i expect bottom 4 again and crowds around 2,000 the norm. In terms of finances, goodness knows what the accounts for 18/19 will show but i have no confidence that they will be prepared accurately given the state of 17/18 Wonder what others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, unsworth blue said: In terms of finances, goodness knows what the accounts for 18/19 will show but i have no confidence that they will be prepared accurately given the state of 17/18 Wonder what others think? all fair comments that will definitely have significantly impacted the 19/20 season the 18/19 accounts will show us if there is any financial acumen at the club you dont have to be a financial genius to work out that you should be getting rid of anything that you can from the previous owners by the way of write downs and write offs. Tank it for a clean start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 11 hours ago, tGWB said: singe, you know how it works so I don't think its unfair to table as a supporter what your expectations are considering: average home crowds of 4,364 'clean' season with no North Stand closures or Fan Boycotts out of the FA Cup in Round 1 no noticeable player transfer revenue A new owner of the club with a new financial director should be looking to 'wash out' any items from the previous owners that could create 'drag' as both of them have no loyalty to previous club financial accounts False pride wouldn't be getting in the way of a robust owner supported by a half decent finance director in ensuring they have a clean slate for the future Hopefully we will see some decent 'exceptional costs' with 'write downs' and 'write offs' to clear the decks, obviously incurring losses Thoughts . . . . . Firstly, if he was a half decent negotiator, he would have had Corney who was desperate to sell write off. much. Much of the criticism is also of the poorly executed first set of accounts. Secondly, extra costs were incurred with staff turnover, much of it unnecessarily and based on paranoia. Thirdly, his much vaunted connection were not utilised and we wasted a fortune. In the past, we have been greater than the sum of the parts, not now. We've taken on near £2m of finance lease with nothing to show for it. We've a Sporting Director paid for doing nothing. All his faults s have been discussed ad infinitum. We were in League above and he did what hasn't been done in almost 50 years. He's now distracted narcissistically by having no dissent from a 3% shareholder. This will affect the squad. The league position, the crowds, the boycott, the North Stand closure, poor squad are all entirely of his own making. So my expectations at this time were to be in L1, making the most of the OEC, establishing links with local companies, repairing Corney relationships, building a better squad,investment in youth. Everything better than he did. There are only 3.positives in 3 years. Cadamreri & Murray , the pitch staff, and the Community Trust work. And even Cadmateri and Murray might be a downgrade on TP & PW just not as crap as Maarmria has been so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 11 hours ago, singe said: Firstly, if he was a half decent negotiator, he would have had Corney who was desperate to sell write off. much. Much of the criticism is also of the poorly executed first set of accounts. Secondly, extra costs were incurred with staff turnover, much of it unnecessarily and based on paranoia. Thirdly, his much vaunted connection were not utilised and we wasted a fortune. In the past, we have been greater than the sum of the parts, not now. We've taken on near £2m of finance lease with nothing to show for it. We've a Sporting Director paid for doing nothing. All his faults s have been discussed ad infinitum. We were in League above and he did what hasn't been done in almost 50 years. He's now distracted narcissistically by having no dissent from a 3% shareholder. This will affect the squad. The league position, the crowds, the boycott, the North Stand closure, poor squad are all entirely of his own making. So my expectations at this time were to be in L1, making the most of the OEC, establishing links with local companies, repairing Corney relationships, building a better squad,investment in youth. Everything better than he did. There are only 3.positives in 3 years. Cadamreri & Murray , the pitch staff, and the Community Trust work. And even Cadmateri and Murray might be a downgrade on TP & PW just not as crap as Maarmria has been so far. I get all that singe but what are your expectations regarding the 18/19 accounts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, tGWB said: I get all that singe but what are your expectations regarding the 18/19 accounts ? My expectations at the time of 18/19 were similar to above, further consolidation, trimming where prudent, increasing sales, getting more out of theAcademy etc, but we know it's been a car crash since. So with what we know, I expect increased (unnessarily) costs for all the reasons we know liabilities on the up, reduced income/assets , so the debt to have increased further, we all expect that surely? It's more a question of by how much I think. Too little transparency to make any bold predictions of amounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, singe said: My expectations at the time of 18/19 were similar to above, further consolidation, trimming where prudent, increasing sales, getting more out of theAcademy etc, but we know it's been a car crash since. So with what we know, I expect increased (unnessarily) costs for all the reasons we know liabilities on the up, reduced income/assets , so the debt to have increased further, we all expect that surely? It's more a question of by how much I think. Too little transparency to make any bold predictions of amounts. Fair enough, I read into that you're saying it will be bad but its just how bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 49 minutes ago, tGWB said: I get all that singe but what are your expectations regarding the 18/19 accounts ? I am crap with financial details. But here are mine: 1) Respect shown to the shareholders and their rights to see FULL accounts - This seems to be done this time around so far. 2) The same detail to be shown in the 18/19 accounts, minimum - as a comparison against 17/18 year 3) The same Trust director(s) to be vett the accounts - for a consist report/overview 4) The Trust to independantly, give their summary to the membership and wider fan base - the Transparency and open-ness we all want 5) The club to listen to the advice/ suggestions the Trust is as a "critical friend" on how improvements could be made I do know the Trust offered some suggestions to the EFL with regards to a more consistent approach/good governance/minimum standards, that all EFL clubs should follow with regards to their submissions to the EFL. From memory I think they were looking as a working party to do this with input - the Trust as a shareholder and our recent "experience" would be ideal choice to be asked I would hope this extra layer of scrutiny via the EFL, would also be "peace of mind" for fans as well as the SCMP that all EFL clubs have to submit twice a season too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 hour ago, tGWB said: Fair enough, I read into that you're saying it will be bad but its just how bad Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 hour ago, tGWB said: Fair enough, I read into that you're saying it will be bad but its just how bad 49 minutes ago, underdog said: I am crap with financial details. But here are mine: 1) Respect shown to the shareholders and their rights to see FULL accounts - This seems to be done this time around so far. 2) The same detail to be shown in the 18/19 accounts, minimum - as a comparison against 17/18 year 3) The same Trust director(s) to be vett the accounts - for a consist report/overview 4) The Trust to independantly, give their summary to the membership and wider fan base - the Transparency and open-ness we all want 5) The club to listen to the advice/ suggestions the Trust is as a "critical friend" on how improvements could be made I do know the Trust offered some suggestions to the EFL with regards to a more consistent approach/good governance/minimum standards, that all EFL clubs should follow with regards to their submissions to the EFL. From memory I think they were looking as a working party to do this with input - the Trust as a shareholder and our recent "experience" would be ideal choice to be asked I would hope this extra layer of scrutiny via the EFL, would also be "peace of mind" for fans as well as the SCMP that all EFL clubs have to submit twice a season too. And the other thing I hope is that the club recognise that Phillipa is actually helping them and work with her rather than seeing her as a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 Just now, singe said: And the other thing I hope is that the club recognise that Phillipa is actually helping them and work with her rather than seeing her as a threat. Defo......just look at the skills she has and for free......why the hell would you NOT want to tap into this, especially as money being tight. Just the critical friend the Trust mentioned, she also would make an excellent Trust rep if the role came up before next years election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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