boundaryblue80 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I don't believe in all this "applause drowning out the idiots"....it's an absolute cop out! It's always been a minutes silence....a mark of respect. That's the way it should be. An applause is yet another head-burying act of our society that rather deal with the muppets ruining it, finding these people and giving them life bans etc, they change what's historically been known as the right way to respect ones life. Cop out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 (edited) Whoa there. The Munich tragedy is a focal point in Man Utd's history and the 50th Anniversary was a massive thing. Everything they did was for the Club, by the Club just as they do every year on 6 February. As far as I'm aware, they haven't asked for silences around the Country or at the England game last night. The fact that this game was played on the Anniversary of when England players were killed or involved in the tragedy is why the FA considered their own tribute as important and respectful? As far as I'm aware when City asked for a minutes applause Man utd turned them down (a story that i think was leaked by Man United and actually shows more about Man United than a lot of people realise as it should have been kept private to the point that we wouldn't have realised the story ever existed). I've no problem with England doing it to honour England players the same way Man United doing it to honour Man United players but for football as a whole to do it to honour footballers is a bit wrong as far as I'm concerned. EDIT: Not sure the Man United leaking the story is right and I didn't mean a bit wrong i meant a bit too far considering it happened before a lot of people can even remember Edited February 7, 2008 by rudemedic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Ritchies_Hairgel Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I just hope that when the anniversary of hillsborough comes round or when the anniversary of the bradford fire comes that we do the same thing silence is better though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Was I the only one who as a result of all yesterday and its events found out that Torino too had been involved in an air crash that killed all their players on board. Reading up on it today, they were top of the league at the time with a few games to go. They continued to play and fielded their reserve side. Basically all they had left. The teams they were playing also fielded their reserve sides too in the spirit of fairness and in respect and they won the league. I still have no idea why I have never heard of this before. You might want to read up on the Gabon one too. The whole Zambia team was wiped out in the early nineties (an engine caught fire and the pilot shut the wrong one down), and still missed out on World Cup qualification by just one point with a second string - and then made the ANC final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 You might want to read up on the Gabon one too. The whole Zambia team was wiped out in the early nineties (an engine caught fire and the pilot shut the wrong one down), and still missed out on World Cup qualification by just one point with a second string - and then made the ANC final. Yeah that was linked alongside it. Tragic stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 If you truly think that City are irrelevant to United, you've been living out of the area for too long IC. Particularly where the fans are concerned. I'll concede that to you Dan as you are much closer than I. United are a million miles away from being run by the fans though and it certainly wasn't them who made the decision to have a minutes' silence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 As far as I'm aware when City asked for a minutes applause Man utd turned them down (a story that i think was leaked by Man United and actually shows more about Man United than a lot of people realise as it should have been kept private to the point that we wouldn't have realised the story ever existed). I've no problem with England doing it to honour England players the same way Man United doing it to honour Man United players but for football as a whole to do it to honour footballers is a bit wrong as far as I'm concerned. there where England players in the crash and the fact (correct me if im wrong) that team was the first Englis team to compete abroad in any European competion. They paved the way for future generations, it does not matter what the team was called or where abouts in England they were from, they went to Represent England and this tragedy affected more than just the people of Manchester, it affected people all over the UK and Germany and im sure Cappello said it affected Italy last night as the same happened top a great Torino team. if anyone cannot not stay silent for a minute to respect men who died after paving the way for thousands of football fans to watch English teams compete in the Champions league (as it is now) then they should be banned from football for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 As far as I'm aware when City asked for a minutes applause Man utd turned them down (a story that i think was leaked by Man United and actually shows more about Man United than a lot of people realise as it should have been kept private to the point that we wouldn't have realised the story ever existed). I've no problem with England doing it to honour England players the same way Man United doing it to honour Man United players but for football as a whole to do it to honour footballers is a bit wrong as far as I'm concerned. TBH, they've not asked other football grounds to hold a minutes silence. And has said, nor should they. But the one that really pissed me off was the George Best one....why on earth should I have one for him? As it was, I promptly left the stand before it began (think it was Chasetown in FA Cup) and went to the bogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 As far as I'm aware when City asked for a minutes applause Man utd turned them down (a story that i think was leaked by Man United and actually shows more about Man United than a lot of people realise as it should have been kept private to the point that we wouldn't have realised the story ever existed). I've no problem with England doing it to honour England players the same way Man United doing it to honour Man United players but for football as a whole to do it to honour footballers is a bit wrong as far as I'm concerned. EDIT: Not sure the Man United leaking the story is right and I didn't mean a bit wrong i meant a bit too far considering it happened before a lot of people can even remember If Gillingham asked that the minutes applause was changed to one of silence than I hope that we would turn them down as well. I go back to what I was saying earlier and reiterate that I am unaware that Clubs across the Country have been asked (by Man United or anyone else for that matter) to have a minutes silence/ applause on Saturday as a mark of respect for the Munich tragedy. Possibly Clubs that do have their own reasons and as stated before, not everybody involved was a footballer connected solely to MUFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I don't believe in all this "applause drowning out the idiots"....it's an absolute cop out! It's always been a minutes silence....a mark of respect. That's the way it should be. An applause is yet another head-burying act of our society that rather deal with the muppets ruining it, finding these people and giving them life bans etc, they change what's historically been known as the right way to respect ones life. Cop out! I’d agree with that, but some of us like the applause in it’s own right as it’s often done in other countries, not as a way to avoid muppetry. On the other point, I do find the proliferation of silences/applauseses to be over the top and frankly quite annoying. In general I think they should be restricted to very significant events or else relevant to the area/club or whatever is directly linked to the deaths. I was genuinely offended that I was expected to observe a three minute silence in work the year after for the 11th September deaths. That’s longer than is held for all of the deaths that occurred both world wars and subsequent conflicts. There was no silence for the half a million who died in the Rwandan genocide. Likewise the silence for the London bombings – were those deaths more tragic than those victims of the Omagh bombing? I tend to make myself scarce for that sort of thing these days, death is over-sentmentalised these days – cf some posh bird who went for a 100mph spin with a pissed up French bloke behind the wheel and didn’t bother to put her seat belt on. I don’t feel any more sorry about her dying than I do about reading of a death in a car crash in the rarely-read local paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I'll concede that to you Dan as you are much closer than I. United are a million miles away from being run by the fans though and it certainly wasn't them who made the decision to have a minutes' silence. No, indeed it wasn't at the fans request, but I guarantee that if Utd had come out and said they were having a minutes applause they would have been crucified by fans complainnig that they should be having a minutes silence as is traditional, let alone if they'd said it was at the request of City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_ok Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I think it should always be a minute's silence for a tragedy, which Munich certainly was. I don't think a minute's applause would be suitable for the Manchester Derby. On the other hand, I think a minute's applause is suitable for a great servant to the club, who has died in 'normal' circumstances. Fred Ogden was 82, I believe, and while his passing is undoubtedly sad and a great loss to his family and friends, I don't think it needs the level of sombre contemplation which a minute's silence gives. The minute's applause gives all present a chance to celebrate Fred's life and thank him for his efforts for Latics over many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outoftheblue Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I think it should always be a minute's silence for a tragedy, which Munich certainly was. I don't think a minute's applause would be suitable for the Manchester Derby. On the other hand, I think a minute's applause is suitable for a great servant to the club, who has died in 'normal' circumstances. Fred Ogden was 82, I believe, and while his passing is undoubtedly sad and a great loss to his family and friends, I don't think it needs the level of sombre contemplation which a minute's silence gives. The minute's applause gives all present a chance to celebrate Fred's life and thank him for his efforts for Latics over many years. In a nutshell really. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 The minute silences lasted 27 seconds yesterday, the ref blew up early due to the jeering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 The question about whether we had a minute's silence after September 11th - I'm pretty certain that we did. We played in the cup at B Rovers the day after and I'm sure that there was a minute's silence. It was only about mid day on the 12th that it was confirmed that games would be going ahead at all. I think the concept of a minute's silence is a highly controversial one. Personally I think we have too many and not for the right reasons. The George Best one was the worst of the lot. I was unfortunate to lose a friend who donated all his organs. This was one week prior to George Best being given his new liver. Clearly I have no idea whether it was the same one but it doesn't really matter. How he went on to abuse that liver is something I would never be able to forgive. We had a minute's silence at the next game (possibly Yeovil or Bristol away) and when it was announced that there would be a silence I returned my ticket to Boundary Park and obtained a refund. I would never spoil a minute's silence but I was not prepared to play any part in that one, even waiting outside to go in as they kicked off. Munich is something that, to be honest, means nothing to me. It was a long time before I was born and although I recognise it as a tragedy where a number of people died, it was no more of a tragedy that any other incident where a similar number of people died. If it had been Latics players, I may feel differently, I don't know. Again, I would not contemplate speaking during a Munich silence but I would not expect to be asked to participate unless I was attending a game at OT. I feel somewhat differently about Bradford and Hillsborough due to the fact that I remember both incidents - Hillsborough I remember well, Bradford, just about. A minute's applause seems a reasonable request for us on Saturday and I would have to confess that this seems a better plan than a minute's silence. Again, though, I think it is interesting who is given the tribute and who isn't. I am happy to salute all ex-Latics players but to me it was very sad that no silence (or applause) was held for the likes of Chubb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 We must have had one for 9/11. I remember there being one for the tsunami so it would seem bizarre not to have one for 9/11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetramfixer Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 i went to the munich testimonial/ memorial game at old trafford a few years ago... aside from all the hype about cantona getting a wedge of cash, as they were having the minutes silence, some fans started shouting glorified chants about cantona.. they will all want heads to roll come sunday, but at the end of the day their fans are no better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_ok Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 The question about whether we had a minute's silence after September 11th - I'm pretty certain that we did. We played in the cup at B Rovers the day after and I'm sure that there was a minute's silence. It was only about mid day on the 12th that it was confirmed that games would be going ahead at all. I think the concept of a minute's silence is a highly controversial one. Personally I think we have too many and not for the right reasons. The George Best one was the worst of the lot. I was unfortunate to lose a friend who donated all his organs. This was one week prior to George Best being given his new liver. Clearly I have no idea whether it was the same one but it doesn't really matter. How he went on to abuse that liver is something I would never be able to forgive. We had a minute's silence at the next game (possibly Yeovil or Bristol away) and when it was announced that there would be a silence I returned my ticket to Boundary Park and obtained a refund. I would never spoil a minute's silence but I was not prepared to play any part in that one, even waiting outside to go in as they kicked off. Munich is something that, to be honest, means nothing to me. It was a long time before I was born and although I recognise it as a tragedy where a number of people died, it was no more of a tragedy that any other incident where a similar number of people died. If it had been Latics players, I may feel differently, I don't know. Again, I would not contemplate speaking during a Munich silence but I would not expect to be asked to participate unless I was attending a game at OT. I feel somewhat differently about Bradford and Hillsborough due to the fact that I remember both incidents - Hillsborough I remember well, Bradford, just about. A minute's applause seems a reasonable request for us on Saturday and I would have to confess that this seems a better plan than a minute's silence. Again, though, I think it is interesting who is given the tribute and who isn't. I am happy to salute all ex-Latics players but to me it was very sad that no silence (or applause) was held for the likes of Chubb. Was the Blackburn game not on September 11th itself? I remember getting home from work early and seeing it on the telly. I'd remembered it that I was home early because I'd taken time off work to go to the match - I could be wrong though. The George Best minutes silence at Yeovil was impeccably observed and I'm proud of the Latics fans for that. I wasn't happy with the idea of participating but, like you, would never disrupt it. I kept quiet at Yeovil not out of respect for George Best, but out of respect for fellow supporters. I feel the protest vote was cast though as, immediately the silence ended, we launched straight into the anti-ManUre chants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I remember the first Minute's Silence I ever witnessed as a football fan like it was yesterday. We played Everton away just after the murder of Jamie Bulger. And it was just so respectfully observed that it was one of the most poignant and powerful thing I remember. It was so fitting with the sadness of the event - applause would have been disrespectful. There are other occasions where applause would be more appropriate - I think Saturday would be one - celebrating a life, rather than contemplating a tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_ok Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I remember the first Minute's Silence I ever witnessed as a football fan like it was yesterday. We played Everton away just after the murder of Jamie Bulger. And it was just so respectfully observed that it was one of the most poignant and powerful thing I remember. It was so fitting with the sadness of the event - applause would have been disrespectful. There are other occasions where applause would be more appropriate - I think Saturday would be one - celebrating a life, rather than contemplating a tragedy. There's a place for both and, as you say, in the Jamie Bulger case applause would be totally inapproriate. The thing that often happens, and will probably happen on Sunday is that one idiot disrupts it then a load of people shout "shut up", then a load more Shhh at the second lot then some more tell the shushers to shut up and some more people boo the whole lot of them. By the end it is boos rather than silence, which is even less appropriate than applause! I'm sure people have the best of intentions in telling the first idiot to shut up but if everyone just kept their own silence despite what anyone else does they would in general be much better observed. The initial culprit can then be politely informed of his error once the minute's silence is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Was the Blackburn game not on September 11th itself? I remember getting home from work early and seeing it on the telly. I'd remembered it that I was home early because I'd taken time off work to go to the match - I could be wrong though. The George Best minutes silence at Yeovil was impeccably observed and I'm proud of the Latics fans for that. I wasn't happy with the idea of participating but, like you, would never disrupt it. I kept quiet at Yeovil not out of respect for George Best, but out of respect for fellow supporters. I feel the protest vote was cast though as, immediately the silence ended, we launched straight into the anti-ManUre chants. I remember a minutes silence at Yeovil too...but did we not have one also at Chasetown? Coz I remember thinking, oh god, we could be on telly here with some shouting out and stuff. The Yeovil game was when Warne dicked them and Eddy got sent off...and we were singing in the snow as we won 2-0. And I do remember walking off to the bogs for a minutes silence then....maybe I've got that mixed up with the Chasetown game then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 The question about whether we had a minute's silence after September 11th - I'm pretty certain that we did. We played in the cup at B Rovers the day after and I'm sure that there was a minute's silence. It was only about mid day on the 12th that it was confirmed that games would be going ahead at all. I think the concept of a minute's silence is a highly controversial one. Personally I think we have too many and not for the right reasons. The George Best one was the worst of the lot. I was unfortunate to lose a friend who donated all his organs. This was one week prior to George Best being given his new liver. Clearly I have no idea whether it was the same one but it doesn't really matter. How he went on to abuse that liver is something I would never be able to forgive. We had a minute's silence at the next game (possibly Yeovil or Bristol away) and when it was announced that there would be a silence I returned my ticket to Boundary Park and obtained a refund. I would never spoil a minute's silence but I was not prepared to play any part in that one, even waiting outside to go in as they kicked off. Munich is something that, to be honest, means nothing to me. It was a long time before I was born and although I recognise it as a tragedy where a number of people died, it was no more of a tragedy that any other incident where a similar number of people died. If it had been Latics players, I may feel differently, I don't know. Again, I would not contemplate speaking during a Munich silence but I would not expect to be asked to participate unless I was attending a game at OT. I feel somewhat differently about Bradford and Hillsborough due to the fact that I remember both incidents - Hillsborough I remember well, Bradford, just about. A minute's applause seems a reasonable request for us on Saturday and I would have to confess that this seems a better plan than a minute's silence. Again, though, I think it is interesting who is given the tribute and who isn't. I am happy to salute all ex-Latics players but to me it was very sad that no silence (or applause) was held for the likes of Chubb. Absolutely correct....although, I couldn't participate even if I was at Old Stretford at the time...again, I'd be off to the toilet or somewhere else and hoping to end up chatting to someone. Ya know......even my dirty red mate said last night to me how he even thinks it's disgusting how they've played the pauper for years over the tragedy and built a wideworld fanbase out of it. I nearly dropped my cue (was playing pool at the time) when he said it.....was utterly shocked. Fair play to him tho....few of them would. As for Chubb...(you may know this anyway, but...) the club was approached. I think you're spot on that he should've been remembered. But the clubs reply was that it would set a precendent if they did that. TBH, I can see their point but I don't know if they grapsed how well known Chubb was. There are few fans that are as widely known like he, or Colin Shaw and a few others I could mention.....it wouldn't be all the time and it would be something every fan would want to do.....the passing of a Latics fan who was known by a good thousand or two (I'd suggest)....even those who didn't know them would say, well he was a Latic so I don't mind. Instead, for Chubb at least, that 2-0 away win at Forest will forever be dedicated to him in my world. The best ever away league game I've seen us play...on the day of his funeral. Not a coincidence that, in my book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetramfixer Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 As for Chubb...(you may know this anyway, but...) the club was approached. I think you're spot on that he should've been remembered. But the clubs reply was that it would set a precendent if they did that. TBH, I can see their point but I don't know if they grapsed how well known Chubb was. There are few fans that are as widely known like he, or Colin Shaw and a few others I could mention.....it wouldn't be all the time and it would be something every fan would want to do.....the passing of a Latics fan who was known by a good thousand or two (I'd suggest)....even those who didn't know them would say, well he was a Latic so I don't mind. Instead, for Chubb at least, that 2-0 away win at Forest will forever be dedicated to him in my world. The best ever away league game I've seen us play...on the day of his funeral. Not a coincidence that, in my book! to mix threads slightly, i think that's where this spanking new video screen would come into it's own... guys like these may not be remembered by name, but by face, and if it was displayed then fans would be able to realise who the 'silence/applause' was for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I remember the first Minute's Silence I ever witnessed as a football fan like it was yesterday. We played Everton away just after the murder of Jamie Bulger. And it was just so respectfully observed that it was one of the most poignant and powerful thing I remember. It was so fitting with the sadness of the event - applause would have been disrespectful. There are other occasions where applause would be more appropriate - I think Saturday would be one - celebrating a life, rather than contemplating a tragedy. I'm going to be Mr Nasty here - but children get murdered from time to time. It's just because Jamie Bulger was a scouser that his death was in any way connected to a football game. Boris Johnson was right. If some poor kid in Hartlepool had been killed before we played them there would have been no silence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyterryb Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Putting it more aptly is it is more than two and a half twin towers A DAY. Easily the most ignored problem in the World, but it is largely in Africa so who cares? Someone tell a joke I'm getting morose. Why is there a hole in the top of a meat pie? So Latics fans can pick four up at once...... I'm here all week.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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