leeslover Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 I am absolutely positive too that Barry wouldn't hear what TTA deem to be private as owners of the club. However how can it be better to have no insider within the club, whether said insider was great or :censored:e? that's my point. As for every Latics fan should be a member of the Trust is quite simple to me, I have heard from one of TTA own lips quetion the validity of the Trust purely due to the numbers compared to fans. For that reason alone I believe we all should be if only to add more weight to OUR rep when he airs the views that the membership instruct him to air. But what do TTA see as the Trust's role? As I understand it, fundraising for the Club. I'm all for this in itself, but it isn't what I would see as an independant body ready to step into the gap if TTA leave. I don't blame TTA for going after their own interests in the relationship, but I get very little sense that the word, "No," is ever uttered in their direction. Sometimes it's necessary to have a falling out to be respected in a business relationship. How much does the Trust have in it's account should the worst happen? What is it doing to increase it's reserves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) But what do TTA see as the Trust's role? As I understand it, fundraising for the Club. I'm all for this in itself, but it isn't what I would see as an independant body ready to step into the gap if TTA leave. I don't blame TTA for going after their own interests in the relationship, but I get very little sense that the word, "No," is ever uttered in their direction. Sometimes it's necessary to have a falling out to be respected in a business relationship. How much does the Trust have in it's account should the worst happen? What is it doing to increase it's reserves? Don't know how much they have (very little I would have thought) and as for fund raising who will stick in the cash should they try currently? no one I'd have thought. Now answer my questions please Are you saying we are better off having no trust?, having no club board member? and that Chris Moore was a one off and never had a self inward looking Chairman before? Edited April 5, 2009 by Lags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Don't know how much they have (very little I would have thought) and as for fund raising who will stick in the cash should they try currently? no one I'd have thought. Now answer my questions please Are you saying we are better off having no trust?, having no club board member? and that Chris Moore was a one off and never had a self inward looking Chairman before? As I understand it TTA tell the Trust to run events through them rather than for independant fund-raising for their own coffers, so it's no surprise that they don't have a lot of cash in the bank. As I say, I can see why TTA would want this, but an indepedant organisation with some balls might occasionally take their own path even if it meant having a row with Mr Corney. Your other points are towards other posters I think - my own opinion is as I said above, should the worst come to the worst, we will all step in, Trust members/directors or not. If we happen to organise ourselves through the Trust then I don't think it will have a lot to do with what the Trust is now, not disregarding the fact that there are many prominent and committed Latics who are on the Trust who would no doubt be getting heavily involved. I don't think it is a bad thing having BO on the board, but I don't think it makes much difference either. I am convinced that it makes no difference in terms of an early warning about TTA's plans. Personally, I would trust Hardy much further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Is anyone else astonished that the Trust have paid £200K for a 3% stake in the club!! I don't think you'll ever get to be Dragon's on Dragon's Den chaps lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Is anyone else astonished that the Trust have paid £200K for a 3% stake in the club!! I don't think you'll ever get to be Dragon's on Dragon's Den chaps lol Mr Corney: "So, Barry, you are offering me £200,000." Barry: "Yes." Mr Corney: "OK." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Mr Corney: "So, Barry, you are offering me £200,000." Barry: "Yes." Mr Corney: "OK." Exactly. BUT there is nothing wrong with that. The money was raised from a number of events including the all stars game, with a view to helping the club survive administration and come out the other side with a future. Five years on, that money has been put into the club and TTA have moved us on providing stability if not success in terms of promotion. If you had asked supporters in the summer of hell in 2003, would you accept us still being in League 1 going into the 2009/10 season, I think most would have gone with that. It is a sign of how far we have actually progressed under TTA that we now see not getting promotion as a failure. Cheers, Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) Is anyone else astonished that the Trust have paid £200K for a 3% stake in the club!! I don't think you'll ever get to be Dragon's on Dragon's Den chaps lol So what should the Trust have done with "their" £200k? Built a little social club somewhere for us to have a cheap pint in and discuss the days when their used to be a professional football club in the town? Genuine question. Edited April 5, 2009 by opinions4u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) It's also a sign of how far we have progressed under TTA that some fans are now so complacent they believe the club doesn't need a Trust. Times now are relatively good, at least in as much as the club is financially sound (while TTA remain). So to me, the Trust's role at the moment is limited to that of a fundraiser and a token voice on the board. If, God forbid, TTA were to bail out without finding a replacement backer, the true value of the Trust would return to the fore. I would tend to agree that the role of Trust representative on the OAFC board needn't be a full time one. However, the fact that Barry is able and willing to give a vast amount of his time (enough to make it effectively a full time role) means the club, and the fans, get much more value out of that role than we might otherwise do. I think Barry gets alot of unfair grief on here. Those that don't think he's doing a good job have one very obvious option - nominate an alternative candidate at Trust election time (I'm sure a Trust board member will clarify how and when that can happen). There's also a simple answer to those who do not think the Trust is doing a worthwhile job - get involved. You should already have realised that the active members of the Trust are relatively few, so if you join and go to meetings your voice will be heard, and maybe your ideas will be followed through. If you're not willing to do that and would rather stand on the sidelines sniping, then I'm afraid to me (and I'm sure many others) your opinion is worthless. To clarify, these are general points, and are not intended to be aimed at any individual(s). Edited April 5, 2009 by garcon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) So let me get this straight just so's I am fully upto speed with your thoughts. Are you saying we are better off having no trust, having no club board member and that Chris Moore was a one off and never had a self inward looking Chairman before? Uncle Ken leaps to mind and Stotty boy wasn't showered with gold either. 0000 I have no doubt I cannot change your mind, however I have no hesitation is saying your wrong. I think having a well run trust that does more than provide an eilite few with benefits and provides information on whats going on to ALL supporters (not just members) would be a useful tool. I think having a fan on the board who keeps everyone up to date with whats going on in the club (within reason) and takes more than his own opinion to the board would be useful I think having a trust the sees ALL supporters as members would be a useful... I think changing the fan on the board every four years would be useful... I dont think the current trust / situtution is any use to anyone but a few people who are getting some nice privleages from it... The idea that its going to stop anyone danagerous taking over is laughable at the least... Edited April 5, 2009 by oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Where does the £200K from the trust come from? If TTA did sell up and the Trust took over control of the club as someone mentioned (Stockport, Exeter, Brentford etc) have done, where would they find the money to pay wages etc There is no way the Trust can afford to pay or the club. The bulk of the omeny came from a certain friendly THe 3% efectovely values the OAFC players at £6.6million, as it is not OAFC minus the ground... Interestingly, last year the Chester City Supporters Trust bought 2.11%, for £8,600, for 425,000 shares. Of course the status of the shares is very important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 So what should the Trust have done with "their" £200k? Built a little social club somewhere for us to have a cheap pint in and discuss the days when their used to be a professional football club in the town? Genuine question. As I said in an earlier post the £200K was raised with the intention of putting it into the new (present) club. The trust served its purpose at the time. Whilst TTA remain, it's major role, which we unfortunately didn't have during the Chris Moore era, is to monitor and act as an early warning system. It's unlikely with TTA in control, that we will need an early warning of potential problems, but after the Moore debacle, most supporters will prefer to have a cautious stance to prevent a repeat. If TTA were to sell out, then the trusts role will become more prominent in the early days of any new owners, as fans may fear of a repeat of 2003. Cheers, Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 So what should the Trust have done with "their" £200k? Built a little social club somewhere for us to have a cheap pint in and discuss the days when their used to be a professional football club in the town? Genuine question. I'm not slagging the trust off I'm just saying that 3% values the club at around £7M which seems way over the odds. Maybe they could have negotiated a larger amount of shares and then had some genuine power in the way the club is run. From what I can see really it's just (if you pardon the pun) trust and good will that TTA alow the Trust to sit in on boartd meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Is Harry Wilde still chairman here? And Harry Wood groundsman? What've i missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 A source from deep inside the club told me in the tunnel after the game today, the following:- John Wardle has OFFICIALLY bought the club from TTA and it will be made public either today or tomorrow "if possible" (I presume theres a lot of paper work needs sorting first) Joe Royle WILL be manager next season and Andy Ritchie will be his assistant! Lee Hughes was SACKED...(but he couldn't tell me why) I now await the abuse for not being able to tell you the name of my source and people not believing these 3 things but hey...I'm only letting you know what I know... Anyone got an update? Just wondering like. Cheers, Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Becketts Anchor Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 There's also a simple answer to those who do not think the Trust is doing a worthwhile job - get involved. You should already have realised that the active members of the Trust are relatively few, so if you join and go to meetings your voice will be heard, and maybe your ideas will be followed through. Just the above really... It's like elections - don't complain about the outcome if you don't bother to vote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) If you're not willing to do that and would rather stand on the sidelines sniping, then I'm afraid to me (and I'm sure many others) your opinion is worthless. Thats kind of a dangerous stance... I work full time... more than full time... I have a huge number of commitments in my life and I would find it extermley difficult to get more involve... But I do love Latics, I do go to almost every game and I think I should be able to critise / support the various people that run the club I love... Membership of the trust should not be a requirement to do that... One persons snipe is another persons constructive critisism... Any post I make on here about anything Latics is only me putting forward what I think is best for the club I love... I find it hard to accept I or anyone else should not hold or express and opinion unless we are prepared to do the job ourselves... or are members of the trust.. Edited April 5, 2009 by oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Just the above really... It's like elections - don't complain about the outcome if you don't bother to vote! But theres only one party! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Becketts Anchor Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 But theres only one party! You misunderstand. If you join the Trust, you can put forward your opinion and vote accordingly. Might be like farting into a hurricane, but so's a General Election! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) Do i win....... Sorry, I thought it was a new big thread. Edited April 5, 2009 by footy68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Thats kind of a dangerous stance... Ok, I can accept that. Opinion matters, and there's nowhere better than here to express it. It just doesn't always seem to be constructive... Having said that, one of the reasons you won't find me criticising the Trust too much is that I too have a full time job, am not local and have thus far not had the time or (if I'm honest) the inclination to get more involved myself. One day I might... Maybe the Trust's biggest problem isn't so much what it does (or doesn't) do, but rather how it communicates what it does. One thought for the future - maybe there should be a thread on here for those who cannot attend in person to post comments and questions to be raised at Trust meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 But I do love Latics, I do go to almost every game and I think I should be able to critise / support the various people that run the club I love... Membership of the trust should not be a requirement to do that... 1. If there was no trust (as is the case at most clubs) you wouldn't have a voice to do this. 2. There is a trust, so there is a route, but you don't want to join. So you've excluded the opportunity that is available. 3. You don't like who's on the trust board, but you don't have any suggestions as to who should be on the board. 4. You don't want to be on the board. 5. You don't want to vote on who is on the trust board. So, basically, you want someone else to be on the trust board, without elections and without any memberships, but you want them to do it in the way that you want it done, not in the way that they want to do it. Some sort of puppet for you to dictate to? You really do seem to be against anything that would achieve what you claim to want. You truly seem to be a complete contrary mary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUNGFOO Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 has he got the club yet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) 1. If there was no trust (as is the case at most clubs) you wouldn't have a voice to do this. Rubbish... The trust gives me no voice... It gives Barry a voice... That is all... I have Alan Hardys and Simon Corneys email address and over the last five years when I have had an issue to raise I have emailed them directly and resolved them. Each time the matters where dealt with or I got explainations on the issues. No help from the trust at all.. I fail to see how the trust gives me a voice... I already have a voice... 2. There is a trust, so there is a route, but you don't want to join. So you've excluded the opportunity that is available. I have a default route as a supporter... If the trusts excludes me (as it does with approx 85% of supporters) then this only weakens the trust... 3. You don't like who's on the trust board, but you don't have any suggestions as to who should be on the board. The first part of that is finding out what is involved. I have tried to find this out to be told that its a full time (rubbish) and only barry could do it (rubbish). 4. You don't want to be on the board. I would LOVE to be on the board!!! 5. You don't want to vote on who is on the trust board. No... I simply can not support the trust in its current format... So, basically, you want someone else to be on the trust board, without elections Never said that... and without any memberships, Erm... Surely being a supporters should be membership enough... Every season ticket holder should be a member by default! but you want them to do it in the way that you want it done, not in the way that they want to do it. Some sort of puppet for you to dictate to? No.... I want someone who will take their own view and the balanced views of the rest of the m,ajority of suppoters... This really isnt hard to canvas.... You really do seem to be against anything that would achieve what you claim to want. You truly seem to be a complete contrary mary. Oh do please behave... Edited April 5, 2009 by oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Maybe the Trust's biggest problem isn't so much what it does (or doesn't) do, but rather how it communicates what it does. That is one of my biggest issues... The operation of the trust...pratically Barry...is very closed... I havent a clue what Barry has done over the past five years... Im sure he has done tons! But besides bringing Hughes to the club and some consultation on season ticket prices I honestly have no idea what he has been up to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 That is one of my biggest issues... The operation of the trust...pratically Barry...is very closed... I havent a clue what Barry has done over the past five years... Im sure he has done tons! But besides bringing Hughes to the club and some consultation on season ticket prices I honestly have no idea what he has been up to... Been away for the past few hours .... so I may have missed a few details looking at the post made since I logged off ! The element I have made bold.. I ask, Have you attended a Trust AGM or meeting ? If the answer is no then that maybe your answer. The operation of my local Referring association seems a closed operation, I still pay my yearly subscription but I dont attend meeting so to me I get no information Thursday 16th April 7:30 at Oldham Athletic, Trust Oldham will be holding a fans forum for its members Barry will again make himself available along with other directors for any questions to be answered. A lot of what people do within there role at the club is between them and there line managers. You ask what has Barry done in the last 5 years at the club, you better bring a sleeping bag because not only is it a lot its mundane and may make you feel sleepy Its ok I dont mind waiting for a couple of days.... I see no reson to take the discussion to a PM level... Better its kept in the public arena as I am sure other fans are following this thread with interest... Are you a trust member may I ask ? I think I know the answer to this thou ? ??? Massive conflict of interest then... Why do the trust members run and scatter when challenged!!! Scatter when challenged ?? You are just trying to wind me up now arn't you !!!! Why support something that I think performs badly and offers me little of use... What insight ? Just looked at the trusts website... Nothing remotley insightful... Even details of the AGM are not up there... Chris Moores was a one off... Never had that problem before or since... Is their a need to continue to be faerful and mistrusting ? What is this notice !!!!!!! ???? As I understand it TTA tell the Trust to run events through them rather than for independant fund-raising for their own coffers, so it's no surprise that they don't have a lot of cash in the bank. As I say, I can see why TTA would want this, but an indepedant organisation with some balls might occasionally take their own path even if it meant having a row with Mr Corney. Your other points are towards other posters I think - my own opinion is as I said above, should the worst come to the worst, we will all step in, Trust members/directors or not. If we happen to organise ourselves through the Trust then I don't think it will have a lot to do with what the Trust is now, not disregarding the fact that there are many prominent and committed Latics who are on the Trust who would no doubt be getting heavily involved. I don't think it is a bad thing having BO on the board, but I don't think it makes much difference either. I am convinced that it makes no difference in terms of an early warning about TTA's plans. Personally, I would trust Hardy much further. Andy ... where do you get your information from to gain an opinion like this ? This is not only un-true but from the point of view of the club and TTA libelous !! Erm... I think he was looking for minutes from previous meetings, not the date of the next one... the minutes of the last minuting are only given at the start of the next AGM unless a member who missed the AGM asks for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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