wardlelatic Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 it was suggested above a request came from the club... Leeslover also clearly feels it was a pressuring move.... I think you know where I am comming from ... Was you in a conference call with me and andy for the 1 hour and 20 mins? Do you know what was said? I know that answers I just wished to make a point, Andy is not a person to feel pressurised into situations he does not wish ! I have no idea were you are coming from, The request did not come from the club, I believe Andy maybe be confused about who made the request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 It is not I who give it a label, it is andy himself who labels his comments "Trust-bashing" Critisim is a functional necessity to improve a product when given positively, The Trust is always open for construction critisim to improve. really... I get the impression you just ignore / shoot down anything that critisies the trust... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 On this point Wardle is OK. He contacted me personally regarding statements I made on this board, and in the course of the conversation he told me that Bazza and Mr Corney separately wanted to get my phone number to ask me exactly what I was on about. I said that I was happy for him to pass the details on. I suppose if they really wanted to hear from me they might have PM'ed, which thinking about it makes me wonder in fact why Mr Corney would go via the Trust to try and find someone making accusations against the Trust organisation I can not remember being asked for your details on behalf of SC, this is something I have not done in regards to any fan. I remember the converstaion we had by phone and I think this is were you maybe confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Was you in a conference call with me and andy for the 1 hour and 20 mins? Do you know what was said? I know that answers I just wished to make a point, Andy is not a person to feel pressurised into situations he does not wish ! I have no idea were you are coming from, The request did not come from the club, I believe Andy maybe be confused about who made the request. i dont know what went down just that it sounds icky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 The request did not come from the club, I believe Andy maybe be confused about who made the request. I'm quite specific that you told me that both Barry and Simon C wanted my phone number, and that I said I was happy for you to pass it to either. You then spent a good hour pursuading me that I didn't need to talk to either. Or is my memory playing tricks? It's normally quite good, to the degree that I have this weird ability to remember lots of conversations from years ago almost word for word if I really try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 really... I get the impression you just ignore / shoot down anything that critisies the trust... Point me in the direction of were I shoot down anything that critises the trust ? My role on the Trust board is to help with the communication and answer were possible questions fans may have at times when Barry and other Trust Directors are not available. I have orgainsed events for fans to meet to answer questions, spoke on th radio and constantly try to answer were possible on Owtb questions that get asked .. I'm on line when possible, it is often that I am away with my paid job and not able to spend time on owtb I ask you to think of who has spent 4 hours or more answering were possible questions that you have recently asked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'm quite specific that you told me that both Barry and Simon C wanted my phone number, and that I said I was happy for you to pass it to either. You then spent a good hour pursuading me that I didn't need to talk to either. Or is my memory playing tricks? It's normally quite good, to the degree that I have this weird ability to remember lots of conversations from years ago almost word for word if I really try. In this case you are are mistaken Andy, reasons I will explain to you another way than posting here I remember what you spoke about and most of the conversation. But like you said it was at least 9 months ago Until another time, I have work in 6 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 In this case you are are mistaken Andy, reasons I will explain to you another way than posting here I remember what you spoke about and most of the conversation. But like you said it was at least 9 months ago Until another time, I have work in 6 hours My mistake. Thinking back, I suppose Mr Corney would have had no interest in speaking to someone who accused an unnamed senior member of the trust of misconduct and finding out who it was. I must have imagined it. Carry on as you were... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Point me in the direction of were I shoot down anything that critises the trust ? My role on the Trust board is to help with the communication and answer were possible questions fans may have at times when Barry and other Trust Directors are not available. I have orgainsed events for fans to meet to answer questions, spoke on th radio and constantly try to answer were possible on Owtb questions that get asked .. I'm on line when possible, it is often that I am away with my paid job and not able to spend time on owtb I ask you to think of who has spent 4 hours or more answering were possible questions that you have recently asked your stock reply to critisim is become a member and come to a meeting... Asking me to support something I don't think is healthy or good is kind of just shooting someone down imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 My mistake. Thinking back, I suppose Mr Corney would have had no interest in speaking to someone who accused an unnamed senior member of the trust of misconduct and finding out who it was. I must have imagined it. Carry on as you were... well if that is the case then all is cool... I think there is a big difference between the club asking for details and the trust director... I hope people realise why it bothered me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 My mistake. Thinking back, I suppose Mr Corney would have had no interest in speaking to someone who accused an unnamed senior member of the trust of misconduct and finding out who it was. I must have imagined it. Carry on as you were... I swear i could hear the eastenders closing theme tune! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 well if that is the case then all is cool... I think there is a big difference between the club asking for details and the trust director... I hope people realise why it bothered me... I have no issue with either of them asking for my details and I am happy that none were passed on without my consent. The bone of contention now seems to be that Wardle and I have a difference of memory about who was asking to speak for me at a time when he was going all guns blazing for me not to embarrass a man I will refer to as, "Mr X." Even at the time it did seem that avoiding embarrassment to, "Mr X," was actually the end objective of the trust, rather than something that would help along the way to gaining the fans a useful voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I swear i could hear the eastenders closing theme tune! Shut it, you SLAAAAAAG!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Shut it, you SLAAAAAAG!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) I stopped going because they scrapped the Pioneer bus that left after every game from Boundary Park and dropped me off in Shaw. So convenient it was. Edited October 9, 2009 by Bring Back Pukka Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) This has been fascinating reading from the last 12-24 hours. Firstly I find out that Mr. Hill (who I presume has something to do with Hillstones) is a director of the club (I must have not seen that Press Release and I spend far too long on here). Now why would any football team want someone with a history of being in the real estate business in that area on the board of the club? Hillstones went bust (owing people money in the process) so I can't imagine Mr. Hill has all that much spare cash lying about to invest in the club (or if he did the Inland Revenue might want a word). Yes Hillstones sponsored the team for a while but not as long as JD did (or Lees brewery for that matter) and any payment received by the club for that was for a service. So why is Mr. Hill on the board- is it because he is involved because this is fastly becoming not a football club with some land attached but a land/property deal with a football club attached to it to the owners. As to Mr. Hill, now I understand that very few real estate people predicted the economic downturn and the collapse in the property market (despite the fact it was on the news for a good 3 days solid in the summer of 2007 that some companies in the states were in trouble and the knock on effects were not seen until at least 3 months later in this country- plenty of time to look to consolidate the security of your business IMHO) but his company went bust. Loads of other companies haven't gone bust so why are the people who own the club taking property advice from a man who's company went bust. He made his money in property at the same time as a blind monkey with half a brain could have made some money in property provided they could get the finance for it. I don't remember Mr. Hill campaiging like Billyo when the clubs property deal was being rodgered by some nitwits on the council (he may have done) but now the council is backing the move he is suddenly involved. (None of this is meant as a personal attack on anyone- it just strikes me as being a bit suspicious) All that is just something I noticed from a throwaway comment made by Wardle. The last couple of pages have been dedicated to a discussion between Wardle and LeesLover about some passing on of details. What worries me about this is not why someone at the club wanted to speak to LL on the phone but that they had to ask someone at the trust to pass his details on. If the club has paid any attention to this thread (bar the ramblings of some wanna be doctor about the evils of smoking- especially when compared to drinking) it is quite clear that most fans with half a brain can see there is a problem with marketing the club. A simple database of all those people who have ever bought tickets at BP for home sections should suffice (if they were smart they would include a section about this board to see if they can cross-reference the person with their user name on here)- that way all the club had to do is ask someone what LL's real name is (I think I know and I've never spoken to LL apart from on here) and they could contact him direct. I worry if the club ever wants to contact me as few people on here know my contact details- having said that the club does know who I am considering I've mentioned enough times what I'm doing for a living and what my Dad does for a living (well it ought to be able to work it out at any rate). Does that mean that any concerns I have about the club/trust are less valid because someone the club knows doesn't know my phone number. Another point I'd also like to mention is that OAFC0000 made a remark about a trust board member shouting down anyone who has criticsms of the trust- this I would agree on. I've definately noticed that those moderators who are also members of the trust board tend to get over enthusiastic in their defence of some valid criticsm of the trust (all critiscm of anything is valid- not all of it is constructive) and given that they are moderators have more power than most to do something about it- I'm yet to see that power fully weidled but the threat is there. Fortunately those mods who are not affiliated with the trust do tend to keep things in line and prevent the trust affiliated mods from getting out of hand. The original starting point of this thread was because the trust chairman who is entitled to a seat on the board as result made some (IMHO) silly comments to the local paper bemoaning the lack of attendance at BP. Members of this board have made various suggestions as to how to improve the marketing of the club some more valid than others if the club had anything about it (as opposed to the idea about how much of a property deal it is) it might have taken some of them on board. Quite a few things seem basic marketing to me and yet the club hasn't done it and is starting to loose customers as a result. EDIT: Reason for edit see Johnny's post below- cheers for the correction. Cheers Ghost of cecere too. Edited October 9, 2009 by rudemedic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) This has been fascinating reading from the last 12-24 hours. Firstly I find out that Mr. Hill (who I presume has something to do with Hillstones) is a director of the club (I must have not seen that Press Release and I spend far too long on here). Now why would any football team want someone with a history of being in the real estate business in that area on the board of the club? Hillstones went bust (owing people money in the process) so I can't imagine Mr. Hill has all that much spare cash lying about to invest in the club (or if he did the Inland Revenue might want a word). Yes Hillstones sponsored the team for a while but not as long as JD did (or Lees brewery for that matter) and any payment received by the club for that was for a service. So why is Mr. Hill on the board- is it because he is involved because this is fastly becoming not a football club with some land attached but a land/property deal with a football club attached to it to the owners. As to Mr. Hill, now I understand that very few real estate people predicted the economic downturn and the collapse in the property market (despite the fact it was on the news for a good 3 days solid in the summer of 2007 that some companies in the states were in trouble and the knock on effects were not seen until at least 3 months later in this country- plenty of time to look to consolidate the security of your business IMHO) but his company went bust. Loads of other companies haven't gone bust so why are the people who own the club taking property advice from a man who's company went bust. He made his money in property at the same time as a blind monkey with half a brain could have made some money in property provided they could get the finance for it. I don't remember Mr. Hill campaiging like Billyo when the clubs property deal was being rodgered by some nitwits on the council (he may have done) but now the council is backing the move he is suddenly involved. (None of this is meant as a personal attack on anyone- it just strikes me as being a bit suspicious) . mr hill = ryder and dutton waste of a rant there! Edited October 9, 2009 by johnny punkster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 This has been fascinating reading from the last 12-24 hours. Firstly I find out that Mr. Hill (who I presume has something to do with Hillstones) is a director of the club (I must have not seen that Press Release and I spend far too long on here). Now why would any football team want someone with a history of being in the real estate business in that area on the board of the club? Hillstones went bust (owing people money in the process) so I can't imagine Mr. Hill has all that much spare cash lying about to invest in the club (or if he did the Inland Revenue might want a word). Yes Hillstones sponsored the team for a while but not as long as JD did (or Lees brewery for that matter) and any payment received by the club for that was for a service. So why is Mr. Hill on the board- is it because he is involved because this is fastly becoming not a football club with some land attached but a land/property deal with a football club attached to it to the owners. As to Mr. Hill, now I understand that very few real estate people predicted the economic downturn and the collapse in the property market (despite the fact it was on the news for a good 3 days solid in the summer of 2007 that some companies in the states were in trouble and the knock on effects were not seen until at least 3 months later in this country- plenty of time to look to consolidate the security of your business IMHO) but his company went bust. Loads of other companies haven't gone bust so why are the people who own the club taking property advice from a man who's company went bust. He made his money in property at the same time as a blind monkey with half a brain could have made some money in property provided they could get the finance for it. I don't remember Mr. Hill campaiging like Billyo when the clubs property deal was being rodgered by some nitwits on the council (he may have done) but now the council is backing the move he is suddenly involved. (None of this is meant as a personal attack on anyone- it just strikes me as being a bit suspicious) All that is just something I noticed from a throwaway comment made by Wardle. The last couple of pages have been dedicated to a discussion between Wardle and LeesLover about some passing on of details. What worries me about this is not why someone at the club wanted to speak to LL on the phone but that they had to ask someone at the trust to pass his details on. If the club has paid any attention to this thread (bar the ramblings of some wanna be doctor about the evils of smoking- especially when compared to drinking) it is quite clear that most fans with half a brain can see there is a problem with marketing the club. A simple database of all those people who have ever bought tickets at BP for home sections should suffice (if they were smart they would include a section about this board to see if they can cross-reference the person with their user name on here)- that way all the club had to do is ask someone what LL's real name is (I think I know and I've never spoken to LL apart from on here) and they could contact him direct. I worry if the club ever wants to contact me as few people on here know my contact details- having said that the club does know who I am considering I've mentioned enough times what I'm doing for a living and what my Dad does for a living (well it ought to be able to work it out at any rate). Does that mean that any concerns I have about the club/trust are less valid because someone the club knows doesn't know my phone number. Another point I'd also like to mention is that OAFC0000 made a remark about a trust board member shouting down anyone who has criticsms of the trust- this I would agree on. I've definately noticed that those moderators who are also members of the trust board tend to get over enthusiastic in their defence of some valid criticsm of the trust (all critiscm of anything is valid- not all of it is constructive) and given that they are moderators have more power than most to do something about it- I'm yet to see that power fully weidled but the threat is there. Fortunately those mods who are not affiliated with the trust do tend to keep things in line and prevent the trust affiliated mods from getting out of hand. The original starting point of this thread was because the trust chairman who is entitled to a seat on the board as result made some (IMHO) silly comments to the local paper bemoaning the lack of attendance at BP. Members of this board have made various suggestions as to how to improve the marketing of the club some more valid than others if the club had anything about it (as opposed to the idea about how much of a property deal it is) it might have taken some of them on board. Quite a few things seem basic marketing to me and yet the club hasn't done it and is starting to loose customers as a result. EDIT: Reason for edit see Johnny's post below- cheers for the correction. You obviously weren't in the Council chamber on the night it got approved then....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Lest I do seen to be making false accusations, I want to be clear that I am alleging any misuse of my personal data at all. I am merely pointing out that the Trust appears to be an entirely self-serving organisation which seems to play it wither way – it’s either at the heart of the club involved in everything and is our eyes and ears as to how TTA run the club and plan the future, or it can’t expect to be told what’s really going on, to it’s something that let’s Barry give his personal opinion in the Board. The business with people wanting to phone me is an example of how criticism is dealt with – basically, “don’t say that, it will embarrass the Trust.” I don’t see that there is much to be lost in embarrassing the Trust or it’s senior members frankly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I really don't see lots of ideas as the problem - as has been said many times, over the past 2+ years this board is full of suggestions/ideas...they will always be forthcoming when you have a forum like this. The 'marketing' success of a football club is always going to be dependant on 1 crucial factor - results on the pitch. No getting away from that. BUT by creating a clear plan and providing a clear vision (along with regular contact and a good level of service) it is possible to build and prepare to be in a position to leap on those opportunities provided by factor 1. The step that has been missing for a long time is that crucial next step...assessing, planning and executing. That is as a whole - I know there has been plenty of 'assessment' of various suggestions, but these cannot be done without the framework of a plan to work to. Simple really and my suggestions would be: 1. Real depth assessment of the 'issues' affecting current ticket holders, past ticket holders, and the general public in the town. 2. Creating a long-term marketing strategy (irrespective of where we are - both facilities and divisionally) Then we're into some of the basics of actually getting a workable 'marketing team' and department back together. And all this needs to be taken in some isolation from various other issues that are going on at the club right now. I know it can't all be done as such, but I'm looking for the club to take on board the general feel here and, irrespective of whether suggestions have been tried before, putting that aside and look a little further forward in terms of a plan on the marketing/sales. Oh and here's a suggestion - if the Trust is a little caught between roles at the moment why not look at some radical solutions such as supplementing the cost of a marketing person/s/department at the club...after all that would benefit all fans over the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Lest I do seen to be making false accusations, I want to be clear that I am alleging any misuse of my personal data at all. I am merely pointing out that the Trust appears to be an entirely self-serving organisation which seems to play it wither way – it’s either at the heart of the club involved in everything and is our eyes and ears as to how TTA run the club and plan the future, or it can’t expect to be told what’s really going on, to it’s something that let’s Barry give his personal opinion in the Board. The business with people wanting to phone me is an example of how criticism is dealt with – basically, “don’t say that, it will embarrass the Trust.” I don’t see that there is much to be lost in embarrassing the Trust or it’s senior members frankly. Yeah it would seem the phone details thing has been some what cleared up so we should move one from that... Regarding the trust... I remember CLEARLY what the idea of the fan on the board was originally. After Chris Moores had destroyed our club, the trust would have a seat on the board which would allow a "fan" to sit on the board, monitor the club activities and inform trust members of what was going on within the club, provide suggestions ideas and comments, but most of all represent the fans. I would suggest this is what most of the fans base understood the role to be... Since then it would seem the trust have turned into something close to the meeting of the masons.... Anyone know the secret handshake or when the next secret election will be ?? A director is not an employee... They have to act in the best interest of the "company" and that is not always acting in the best interest of the majority shareholders... I think that is a key misunderstanding here by some.... Barry should be able to inform the trust of what goes on within the trust and its membership if something is not working...after all it is them who hold the 3% share holding... or is a case that senior trust members know more about what is going on and choosing not to pass on the information ?? I dont know...but from the conflicting comments on here from people it makes me wonder... There is question marks over fans not being told when the elections are taking place.... People being told to keep quite.... Questionable comments from senior trust members on this site... and to be frank there is a :censored: loads of allegations floating around which some members have hinted at but obviously are not ready to fully state them (that is a choice for them)... The trust was set up to serve the fans... Is it doing that ? Edited October 9, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Do you know what I hate, people who don't vote in general elections but still moan about the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Do you know what I hate, people who don't vote in general elections but still moan about the government. Difference between a "general" election and a "closed" election though isn't there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Do you know what I hate, people who don't vote in general elections but still moan about the government. Who did you vote for as Trust Chairman Coco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Who did you vote for as Trust Chairman Coco? I'm not a member of the trust, so it's doesn't concern me how they are run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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