BUMP: Politics and Stadiums in Oldham

[garcon]

To clarify, I'm not expecting 'Harry' to tell us his real name or actual position; that would go against forum etiquette in my view. But if he does have an interest I'd like him to declare as much. I don't doubt that his support for Failsworth is (also) as a fan.

[leeslover]

Without him specifying exactly what his involvement is, I thought Harry had been pretty open about the fact that he is involved?

[Matt]

We all know that it is the time to put our squabbles to one side and fight the fight against the common enemy, the people's front of Judea.

Splitter.

[Stitch_KTF]

Without him specifying exactly what his involvement is, I thought Harry had been pretty open about the fact that he is involved?

 

He has, but not that he is likely to enjoy "personal gain" (not that I would have any real grievances with that of course).

 

Garcon, Harry's Christian name has been bandied about on here a few times in the past.

[nava]

Without him specifying exactly what his involvement is, I thought Harry had been pretty open about the fact that he is involved?

 

So had I.

[leeslover]

He has, but not that he is likely to enjoy "personal gain" (not that I would have any real grievances with that of course).

 

Garcon, Harry's Christian name has been bandied about on here a few times in the past.

I’ve referred to him as Alan, Chaim and Simon, but I was only on the wind-up with 0000

[garcon]

Not sure I've seen his christian name, but I care less about that than any potential gain out of the residential development. Like Stitch I don't begrudge that at all, I just feel it should be declared if he wants to rally the troops in favour of Failsworth.

 

This isn't some kind of witch-hunt or exposé attempt, just a wish for openness.

[Lags]

I thought you could find Harry in the ticket office at certain times. Is this not true?

[Stitch_KTF]

I thought you could find Harry in the ticket office at certain times. Is this not true?

 

Haha! Yes, it's all just clicked. I knew I knew that guy in the ticket office from somewhere other than Latics......

[thelaticsfan]

Good article,

 

Ive thought this for a while, no matter what the party in office propose, the other parties will fight for it not to come to frution, just for the sake of one-upsmanship

 

You can see this in oldham town, barely anything exciting is built purely because leader of the opposition will fight it regardless of wether it helps the community or not,

 

basically they do it just to say "ha we stopped you!"

[downender2]

Good article,

 

Ive thought this for a while, no matter what the party in office propose, the other parties will fight for it not to come to frution, just for the sake of one-upsmanship

 

You can see this in oldham town, barely anything exciting is built purely because leader of the opposition will fight it regardless of wether it helps the community or not,

 

basically they do it just to say "ha we stopped you!"

 

this isn't unique to Oldham, any town or city without a strong ruling party will have similar issues....Bristol has also suffered in the last 20 years mainly due to this...oh and the demise of Avon (not the cosmetic people)

Edited February 19, 2010 by downender2

[footy68]

I’ve referred to him as Alan, Chaim and Simon, but I was only on the wind-up with 0000

 

Isn't he called Brian?.........bignose!

[BP1960]

Good article,

 

Ive thought this for a while, no matter what the party in office propose, the other parties will fight for it not to come to frution, just for the sake of one-upsmanship

 

You can see this in oldham town, barely anything exciting is built purely because leader of the opposition will fight it regardless of wether it helps the community or not,

 

basically they do it just to say "ha we stopped you!"

 

Councillors are now held in the same esteem as MPs, these are people who are supposed to represent the public, not themselves.

[garcon]

Councillors are now held in the same esteem as MPs, these are people who are supposed to represent the public, not themselves.

And it's a source of constant frustration for those who do represent the public that they continually get tarnished with the same brush as those that don't.

[Diego_Sideburns]

Without him specifying exactly what his involvement is, I thought Harry had been pretty open about the fact that he is involved?

 

The housing development behind the chaddy End was discussed in September when the Club explained the position on the OS.

http://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/page/NewsU...1798602,00.html

 

It was eported from the horse's mouth (on the OS):

"....all the profits from the sale of the properties assists in the funding for the new stadium"and "realising our ambition in providing a stadium that the supporters and the town can be proud of".

 

When asked in December if the planning application had been approved, Harry replied:

11 votes for, none against, 1 abstention. Even C'llr McCann made a point of being very complimentary to the revised proposals.

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

Harry

 

[outoftheblue]

I may be wrong, but if hints some months ago about Harry's identity were true then one could be forgiven for thinking it just a little cynical of him to use this place to encourage action to support the Failsworth project when he stands to directly benefit from the residential development of the Boundary Park land.

 

If I'm mistaken I'm sure Harry will be happy to clarify.

I think you know very well who Harry is, Garcon. As do a few others on here.

I also think you are quite right to question Harry's motives, and I'm surprised it hasn't been done before.

 

It's only right that people's identities are kept hidden (Unless those people are happy to be 'discovered'), but when people may have a financial gain involved the size of Harry's, then it's only fair that it should be mentioned when bringing Club politics into the forum.

[garcon]

I think you know very well who Harry is, Garcon.

Well that's kind of my point. I don't. Not for certain anyway, by nature of the fact that I believe very little of what I read on here. The last couple of pages has reminded me that he was openly involved in the thread discussing the plans of the phase 1 BP housing development - a vague recollection of that was why posted what I did.

[Delfer]

I think you know very well who Harry is, Garcon. As do a few others on here.

I also think you are quite right to question Harry's motives, and I'm surprised it hasn't been done before.

 

It's only right that people's identities are kept hidden (Unless those people are happy to be 'discovered'), but when people may have a financial gain involved the size of Harry's, then it's only fair that it should be mentioned when bringing Club politics into the forum.

 

 

Fair point but there are plenty who still have no idea who he is, why can't you say? As it stands your "knowledge" just makes you and a few others look smug - not your intention surely?

[Harry Dowds Green Shirt]

I think you know very well who Harry is, Garcon. As do a few others on here.

I also think you are quite right to question Harry's motives, and I'm surprised it hasn't been done before.

 

It's only right that people's identities are kept hidden (Unless those people are happy to be 'discovered'), but when people may have a financial gain involved the size of Harry's, then it's only fair that it should be mentioned when bringing Club politics into the forum.

 

Right. It's time to (hopefully) kill stone dead a number of misconceptions that people may or may not have about me and my involvement.

 

Over the last few weeks, I have receieved various comments about this supposed "financial gain" that I am apparently making from my involvement, not least from some on here. The best one though came a week last Saturday when I was enjoying a quiet meal with my wife at a local pub/restaurant following the Millwall game. Obviously someone recognised me and decided I was fair game and claimed that it was common knowledge that I was making £1.7 million pounds out of this. I had to pick my Mrs, who is also a latics fanatic, up off the floor at that comment. She couldn't stop laughing and asking me why I hadn't told her.

 

If you want to know what we get out of this, then read the story very carefully from when the project was announced last September.

 

Plans announced

 

I thought the third paragraph was clear enough, but just in case I quote it below for clarity with the all important word highlighted.

 

"The joint venture has been put together by Managing Director Simon Corney, Club Director and Director of Ryder & Dutton Ian Hill and Holroy Developments Managing Director Paul Whitehead and is seen as the best way forward for developing the Boundary Park site to ensure that all the profits from the sale of the properties assists in the funding for the new stadium."

 

Yes our Company will take some money out of the project, but you have to make a profit or you make a loss and if you continue to make a loss you go out of business. At bthe end of the day, I have come up with a scheme that gives the club the best possible return and no one has bettered it.

 

Lets be frank. Since the crash in the housing market, how many posters on here have come up with a viable solution to the problems facing the club? It's not a critisism, but a genuine question. I chose not to sit on my backside and let others find that solution. I had an idea, approached the club with it and it turns out that it is so far the only viable solution on the table. If you have an alternative I'm sure that Messrs Blitz Gazal and Corney will be eager to hear it. If it beats what I have put forward; I'll gladly step aside. Until then.......................

 

People will think what they want to think. I can't stop or avoid that, but the simple fact is that I am a Latics fan and have been all my life. I want what is BEST for the club and it's future. Yes I "work" in the ticket office, but the word work suggests a payment is receieved for services rendered. You wouldn't believe how much it has been suggested I get paid and not once has anyone got it right. The truth is I have have worked there since October 1975 when I was 15. I love the buzz on a match day. It's brilliant and as I have gotten older it is in all honesty a break from the trials and tribulations of working life. It's my hobby. I've seen people on here have problems with tickets and other things and have where possibvle sorted them out, no fuss, no glory just pleasure in serving the club.

 

The same applies with the BP development. I approached the club with this idea in December 2008, way before Failsworth came on the scene, so to accuse me of doing this article as a way to line my pockets, is wide of the mark. I've done the article because I am sick and fed up with the Politics in this town ballsing up just about every major regeneration project. Latics have been on the end of it for 20 years now and they managed to kill off the egg chasers, something we should never forget. To me it looks like it may happen again thats why I am so passionate. I've shown that I won't sit on my hands when action is required and I won't do so now.

 

Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. I respect those who oppose the move and understand why they do. If you ask me do I WANT to leave BP. then my answer would like 90% of other fans be a no. However, having been close to the project I have formed a different opinion and I think the move will give us a better future than staying at BP. That is my honest belief. I want my son to still be watching latics in 30 years even if I'm not around to do so. I want latics fans to stick together for the future of the club just like the summer of 2003 and the march in support of the planning in 2007.

 

There are quite a few on here who know me and who know how open I am about what I do. Those who do know me also know my dedication to the club. For those who doubt me, you can usually find me in the Grey Mare after a Saturday home game. If you want a chat and to know more call in and have a drink. I'll always chat anything Latics related.

 

Finally, for outoftheblue and the part of your post highlighted above, don't make comments that you can't prove and if you knew the facts you would prove to be blatantly wrong.

 

I hope I have answered the questions raised. I have never tried to hide who I am or what I do, but at the same time I've never publicised it because after all this is just a meassage board. If knowing what you now do, the majority don't think I should post then fair enough I'll stay off here. Until then, I'll keep giving my opinion.

 

Er, nearly forgot.

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

Harry

just for paddy sorry Lee Sinnott

Edited February 19, 2010 by Harry Dowds Green Shirt

[Lags]

So what was you're idea/scheme? cos from that I can't figure out your involvement. I am off out now but shall look for your reply on my return, Ta.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Lags

[real]

So what was you're idea/scheme? cos from that I can't figure out your involvement. I am off out now but shall look for your reply on my return, Ta.

 

 

I'd guess that he's either Ian Hill or Paul Whitehead, my money is on the latter. I can't see that any other builder would build on BP on a piecemeal basis without wanting hugely reduced land prices, and the builder is the key to the deal imho.

 

300 houses (eventually) on the BP site is gonna cost a lot to build (min £50k each?) and would likely have a land cost attached too (£50k each too?). That's a fair amount of money to invest wiht no return, I can't say I'd take that risk for no reward. Would any of us?

 

If it works for the club (first and foremost) and it works for you harry, then fair play. The only problem is the land issue at failsworth, although that would be a problem for both parties. And I'd also suggest that the FRAGs might have aproblem proving that the land IS a protected/whatever trust - the Charity commision say there's no proof it is, but no proof it's not, and as we all know, you cannot prove a negative; you can only prove what actually is.

[garcon]

Thanks Pau, er, Harry.

 

All I wanted was a bit of clarity, personally didn't need the detail but hopefully it will put a few stories to bed.

 

I never doubted that your opening post to this thread was made as a fan, I just thought it appropriate that any interest was declared - because although some seem to think everyone on this board knows the full story that isn't (wasn't) the case.

 

And don't you dare stop posting - I might disagree with you on some things but you are one of the few consistent voices of reason on here.

Edited February 19, 2010 by garcon

[leeslover]

Like a lot of people on here I know who Harry is (I met him on a Beardybus), I also reckon an awful lot of our 40-50 year olds who don't know him by MB name will have bounced off him at one time or another on an away day in their youth. I know what he does for a living an that he is involved with the development but not how it works out. I must say that on a personal basis I would be astonished if he was looking to take the club for a ride in any way, and wouldn't be surprised if it was slightly the other way. However, Mark and I are going into our meeting with the Club next week with an open mind and if we can bring some impartial clarity into these aspects of the proposed move then we will do so.

[Stitch_KTF]

Right. It's time to (hopefully) kill stone dead a number of misconceptions that people may or may not have about me and my involvement.

 

Over the last few weeks, I have receieved various comments about this supposed "financial gain" that I am apparently making from my involvement, not least from some on here. The best one though came a week last Saturday when I was enjoying a quiet meal with my wife at a local pub/restaurant following the Millwall game. Obviously someone recognised me and decided I was fair game and claimed that it was common knowledge that I was making £1.7 million pounds out of this. I had to pick my Mrs, who is also a latics fanatic, up off the floor at that comment. She couldn't stop laughing and asking me why I hadn't told her.

 

If you want to know what we get out of this, then read the story very carefully from when the project was announced last September.

 

Plans announced

 

I thought the third paragraph was clear enough, but just in case I quote it below for clarity with the all important word highlighted.

 

"The joint venture has been put together by Managing Director Simon Corney, Club Director and Director of Ryder & Dutton Ian Hill and Holroy Developments Managing Director Paul Whitehead and is seen as the best way forward for developing the Boundary Park site to ensure that all the profits from the sale of the properties assists in the funding for the new stadium."

 

Yes our Company will take some money out of the project, but you have to make a profit or you make a loss and if you continue to make a loss you go out of business. At bthe end of the day, I have come up with a scheme that gives the club the best possible return and no one has bettered it.

 

Lets be frank. Since the crash in the housing market, how many posters on here have come up with a viable solution to the problems facing the club? It's not a critisism, but a genuine question. I chose not to sit on my backside and let others find that solution. I had an idea, approached the club with it and it turns out that it is so far the only viable solution on the table. If you have an alternative I'm sure that Messrs Blitz Gazal and Corney will be eager to hear it. If it beats what I have put forward; I'll gladly step aside. Until then.......................

 

People will think what they want to think. I can't stop or avoid that, but the simple fact is that I am a Latics fan and have been all my life. I want what is BEST for the club and it's future. Yes I "work" in the ticket office, but the word work suggests a payment is receieved for services rendered. You wouldn't believe how much it has been suggested I get paid and not once has anyone got it right. The truth is I have have worked there since October 1975 when I was 15. I love the buzz on a match day. It's brilliant and as I have gotten older it is in all honesty a break from the trials and tribulations of working life. It's my hobby. I've seen people on here have problems with tickets and other things and have where possibvle sorted them out, no fuss, no glory just pleasure in serving the club.

 

The same applies with the BP development. I approached the club with this idea in December 2008, way before Failsworth came on the scene, so to accuse me of doing this article as a way to line my pockets, is wide of the mark. I've done the article because I am sick and fed up with the Politics in this town ballsing up just about every major regeneration project. Latics have been on the end of it for 20 years now and they managed to kill off the egg chasers, something we should never forget. To me it looks like it may happen again thats why I am so passionate. I've shown that I won't sit on my hands when action is required and I won't do so now.

 

Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. I respect those who oppose the move and understand why they do. If you ask me do I WANT to leave BP. then my answer would like 90% of other fans be a no. However, having been close to the project I have formed a different opinion and I think the move will give us a better future than staying at BP. That is my honest belief. I want my son to still be watching latics in 30 years even if I'm not around to do so. I want latics fans to stick together for the future of the club just like the summer of 2003 and the march in support of the planning in 2007.

 

There are quite a few on here who know me and who know how open I am about what I do. Those who do know me also know my dedication to the club. For those who doubt me, you can usually find me in the Grey Mare after a Saturday home game. If you want a chat and to know more call in and have a drink. I'll always chat anything Latics related.

 

Finally, for outoftheblue and the part of your post highlighted above, don't make comments that you can't prove and if you knew the facts you would prove to be blatantly wrong.

 

I hope I have answered the questions raised. I have never tried to hide who I am or what I do, but at the same time I've never publicised it because after all this is just a meassage board. If knowing what you now do, the majority don't think I should post then fair enough I'll stay off here. Until then, I'll keep giving my opinion.

 

Er, nearly forgot.

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

Harry

just for paddy sorry Lee Sinnott

 

 

Fair enough (but you still employ :censored: brickies).

[oafc0000]

I asked for a bit of clarity months ago from Harry regarding his involvement with the scheme. He dodged answering for months leaving it up to others to speak up... You should not be surprised if people then start to think what the hell is this guy up to.

 

I don't think Harry is out to screw anyone. Anyone who has been involved with the club for so long clearly is going to care. What I do think though is that money has a negative effect on pretty much everyone, also directors have a legal responsibility to operate in the best interest of their companies, and rallying cries from people who's business do stand to turn profit should viewed with some cautious eyes.

 

I think we all deserve to have privacy on this MB. The only time I think that changes if you have some sort of involvement with a scheme / club / situation that is more than just being a fans. As this is a fans forum.

 

I am glad the like of Garcon understand this and have pushed for clarity, as I failed when asking for it.

 

I present this opinion as a fan, and nothing more....

 

Off back to my cave now...

Edited February 20, 2010 by oafc0000