NewBlue Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Derbyshire will score if we give him the ball near the goal, but we don't. Smith, yesterday, had very little help either. Lets be honest, if you give Smith the ball with his back turned to goal you're unlikely to get much. Derbyshire made the goal that way yesterday but it was individual quality that gave him the assist. When we beat Crewe and Preston Baxter pretty much played as the second striker and the players that created the chances were Wes and Furman who pressed forwards, yet the winning formula that we had in them matches seems to have been ignored and disregarded by Dickov, astonishingly. Why can't Dickov to watch these matches back, review them and learn from them? I simply don't understand. The players, Dickov and the fans all know that we should've trounced Shrewsbury, with or without Montano & Baxter. They are :censored:e. 3 points, good - but it was a diabolical spectacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Hoof it to Smith = midfielders have to run on to it. They don't. Baxter and Derbyshire up top = keep it on the floor, run the channels, midfield pushing up to feed off the scraps. They don't. Wingers on pitch = full backs who overlap. Only one does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Get more early crosses in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Don't play both Furman and Wesolowski I'd drop Furman Every other player on our books who can play centre mid would offer more creativity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 Get more early crosses in... Our wingers get doubled up on because they are our only point of attack. I blame our attacking failures on the CM's, or the tactics that they are briefed on, they impact our system very negatively. If they press, we score, as proved, if they sit, we don't, as proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy_Fent Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) better passing better movement more effective set-pieces let the central midfielders attack the space in front of them let the full backs overlap from time to time don't rely soley on wingers don't rely soley on the long ball don't rely soley on Baxter don't play a rigid formation try and exploit the weaknesses of the opposition Edited November 25, 2012 by Tommy_Fent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 As mentioned in the Zzzzzzzzz thread it comes down to confidence We need to believe in our selves more and take a few more risks midfielders and full backs must push on and gamble and try a few things. We must show more courage on the ball go looking for the pass's and when the ball does come to them don't try and just get rid of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Our wingers get doubled up on because they are our only point of attack. I blame our attacking failures on the CM's, or the tactics that they are briefed on, they impact our system very negatively. If they press, we score, as proved, if they sit, we don't, as proven. I'm not so sure - we get the ball in some good wide positions, but too often in my opinion knock it back into midfield and lose the opportunity to get the ball in early. It doesn't help, as has been said elsewhere, that the full backs don't do much over-lapping. Morais was good on the wing for us last season and got some decent crosses in, Montano has shown glimpses of being unafraid to take his man on and get the ball in the box, but I don't think there's been enough of this sort of play. Might be too much to ask - thing I'm just hoping for a return to the glory days of an Adams/Holden kind of set-up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Hoof it to Smith = midfielders have to run on to it. They don't. Baxter and Derbyshire up top = keep it on the floor, run the channels, midfield pushing up to feed off the scraps. They don't. Wingers on pitch = full backs who overlap. Only one does. Spot on that, exactly how i see it. Midfielders not doing the basics and it's costing us, it's got to be a Dickov tactic but it's clearly not working most of the time, why hasn't he done anything about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazlatic Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Why make it easy for the opposition and only play one way? Mix it up... Wingers/overlapping full-backs, centre-midfielders attacking or threading balls through to forwards and the odd long ball for good measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 We almost always fail to dominate midfield..... As the home team the onus is on us to force the initiative. We have surrendered the middle of the park to the opposition in 90% of the home games I have seen. It's not difficult to understand why we are so poor at home, it ain't rocket science. Dickov has said recently that we have one of the best midfield pairings in the division........ Is he watching the same team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStationLatic Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Get the players playing a better formation than the outdated 4-4-2, rather than trying something for 45min in a home game, hearing a few boos, and abandoning it in a panic. Some teams still play it well don't get me wrong, but there's a reason it's being ditched at all levels. We appear a clear answer to why - teams double up on our wingers and play three in the middle or drop a striker back. That pushes our 'two' deep. We then resort to long balls to isolated strikers and can't follow up effectively. It's like England! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 better passing better movement more effective set-pieces let the central midfielders attack the space in front of them let the full backs overlap from time to time don't rely soley on wingers don't rely soley on the long ball don't rely soley on Baxter don't play a rigid formation try and exploit the weaknesses of the opposition Repeat that at the interview and you just might get the next manager's job Tommy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) Joe Royle was talking on the radio earlier and he was making the point that. as a striker, he used to want the ball as early as possible - and that once it had gone forward lots of other players had to get upfield to support the striker. He described how he thrived on accurate, early balls from John Hurst at Everton, Alan Oakes at City, and Norman Hunter. To me it doesn't matter if we do play the long ball, as long as the support gets up quickl, which doesn't always happe, And I think back to two great goalscoring partnerships at Latics. Fryatt and Shaw, Lochhead and Garwood (if you don't know who I'm talking about - find out if you want to call yousrelf a supporter) . Target men (who could also score goals) and someone to feed off them - but also lots of goals from others who pushed on - Alan McNeill, Alan Groves, Keith Bebbington, George McVitie. There seems to be a general agreement that there is a need for midfield to be more aggressive in terms of attacking - but that doesn't preclude the long ball. Edited November 25, 2012 by LaticsPete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy_Fent Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) Get the players playing a better formation than the outdated 4-4-2, rather than trying something for 45min in a home game, hearing a few boos, and abandoning it in a panic. Some teams still play it well don't get me wrong, but there's a reason it's being ditched at all levels. We appear a clear answer to why - teams double up on our wingers and play three in the middle or drop a striker back. That pushes our 'two' deep. We then resort to long balls to isolated strikers and can't follow up effectively. It's like England! this this and this again. Along with this idea amongst a lot of fans that "Football is simple" our "tried and tested" mentality towards tactics is in my opinion the reason why England have dropped so far behind in the last 10 years, when I used to play as a kid it was a case of, stick the big lads at the back to knock it long to the short quick strikers and wingers, I'm sure this was the case with many other people on here. But the new generation of players coming through in the future will of been brought through are more used to playing 5/6 even 7 a-side where the emphasis is more on having a neat first touch and playing a lot more as a team. 4-4-2 can possibly still work but the rigid positioning and mentality has to change, you could argue that Spains 4-6-0 formation in the European Championships was more of a 4-4-2, only with the two forwards dropping much deeper to allow that extra option for the team to play out of defense. The key is to attack as a team and defend as a team, rather than everyone having their own job to do. Edited November 25, 2012 by Tommy_Fent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Get the players playing a better formation than the outdated 4-4-2, rather than trying something for 45min in a home game, hearing a few boos, and abandoning it in a panic. What boos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Heck C-Beck Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 One thing I feel we clearly lack is athleticism in terms of real strength, height, pace and aggression. I think we are good technically and when not lumping it forward to Smith can keep it neat and tidy knocking it around along the floor, but we are just too laboured when bringing the ball forward. It would be great to have some real pace up top and someone in the middle of the park who could bring the ball forward at speed. I thought there was very little between us and Tranmere but when they broke from defence, they did so at speed and in numbers and it was very effective. Everyone says with these players we should be higher up the league but while individually most of them should be playing at this level, as a team I think they will always struggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 One thing I feel we clearly lack is athleticism in terms of real strength, height, pace and aggression. I think we are good technically and when not lumping it forward to Smith can keep it neat and tidy knocking it around along the floor, but we are just too laboured when bringing the ball forward. It would be great to have some real pace up top and someone in the middle of the park who could bring the ball forward at speed. I thought there was very little between us and Tranmere but when they broke from defence, they did so at speed and in numbers and it was very effective. Everyone says with these players we should be higher up the league but while individually most of them should be playing at this level, as a team I think they will always struggle. For aslong as i've watched Latics we have in the main lacked pace. Every team apart from the Dowie season with Wayne Andrews and when he was ever fit Josh Low. FFS when Craig Dudley tipped up he was the quickest player i'd seen in a Latics shirt in a while even with his asthma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) For aslong as i've watched Latics we have in the main lacked pace. Every team apart from the Dowie season with Wayne Andrews and when he was ever fit Josh Low. FFS when Craig Dudley tipped up he was the quickest player i'd seen in a Latics shirt in a while even with his asthma. They looked quite exciting on this video not so long ago, what's gone wrong ? I also remember a live BBC radio broadcast from Big Joe's days when Jimmy Armfield described the Latics players as "'all quick". Edited November 25, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrown23 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Chris Taylor involved in a lot of those goals, I thought he was meant to be :censored:...... Seems to be a fair few people in and around the box as well, midfielders pushing forward and having some determination to get into goalscoring positions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Oumare Tounkara! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 They looked quite exciting on this video not so long ago, what's gone wrong ? I also remember a live BBC radio broadcast from Big Joe's days when Jimmy Armfield described the Latics players as "'all quick". That video would be from a season when we finished 17th, we are currently 16th. Why is a season when we finished below where we are now an example to be held up to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Alot of goals in that montage from midfielders taking the ball on and having a crack Dale Stephens Chris Taylor and Dean Furman perhaps we need to encourage them to do abit more of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shefflatic Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 wonder what we would be like with a forward options of Tounkara, Baxter, Derbyshire and Simpson (Tonk for Smith) pace, power, trickery.......ooooh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 better passing better movement more effective set-pieces let the central midfielders attack the space in front of them let the full backs overlap from time to time don't rely soley on wingers don't rely soley on the long ball don't rely soley on Baxter don't play a rigid formation try and exploit the weaknesses of the opposition This, this and bit more of this. When he was basicaly :censored: or bust, PD let the shackles off and sent the side out to win; to attack & press from the off. We fully deserved the wins vs Crewe and Preston - playing the way we, as fans, know this group are capable of. For some mindboggling reason; once we got those results - coupled with the Orient one; he went straight back to type - rigid, defensive, dull 'lets not get beat' style tactics and game-plans. Let's not beat about the bush. Shrewsbury were utter :censored:e yesterday. Dross. Marvin Morgan looked like he's be useful in a decent side, and Jones; the number 5 CB was a clever and world-weary CB who knew how to 'play the game'. Other than that - god they were terrible. And we beat them. 1 nil. just. It's really not good enough. That should have been a cricket score. If only the team was sent out to attack. We should have had 3, 4, 5 + against that lot. We won a scrappy, spawny, sloppy 1 nil. Speaks volumes that. I've been a 'give him more time' poster..............if that more time involves more home games like that; then - well, I take it back. We need to look elsewhere...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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