steveecky Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Listened to commentary on Player today and to be frank, I've heard it all before: - unlucky in their box; individual mistakes; rubbish refereeing decisions; come down to BP and get behind the boys next time. But, can I get beyond the two latest results (and the Reserves drubbing)? What really worries me is that there seems to be no real longer term plan either - we don't appear to be bringing players through from the reserves to challenge for places - we don't look likely to produce anybody that can be sold on. Watching 'Being Liverpool' on TV it was interesting to see how Brendan Rogers was influencing the club not just for the next match but for the next few seasons - now I know Liverpool and Latics are a long way apart but does anyone see that the Latics have any strategy other than getting in a few out of contract players and loanees each season and hoping for the best. If you asked SC or PD "where do you see OAFC in 5 years time?" would they give you any vision of the future that you could sign up to? I long for OAFC to have a season where there appears to be genuine cause for optimism and matches would be about how much can be achieved rather than what are we going to suffer today! What I remember most about both Jim Frizzell and Joe Royle (showing my age I'm afraid) as managers was their ability to spot players that could really make it before anyone spotted the potential (eg the Irwin and Barretts of the time). Roll on the summer when the next OAFC team is put together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) We are in by no means the best position to have a long term plan, but when Dickov says that we are building something here it's very easy to pick holes in his statement. After last weeks result, today would've been a good opportunity to throw in some of the fringe players and youngsters to see how much of an impact they could make, instead the only change he makes is an enforced one. I think all the 1st team squad are useful to us in some way, shape or form but they are far from irreplaceable. I don't know the best way for us to approach the 2nd half of the season but if we are at a crossroads then I have a strong concern that the road straight ahead leads to a bad place. Edited December 22, 2012 by the_mighty_bosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Our brightest talent to most people, David Mellor, wasn't even on the bench today. Looks unlikely he'll be getting his chance. I also really like Yousuff M'Changama who is only 22 but he isn't getting games either. Connor Hughes has been used very infrequently. Winchester has seen little action and Millar wasn't on the bench either. They're all playing in the reserves who aren't too good, they're not getting competitive football and when they did it was for a very lowly team. Get 'em in the team or loan them out. They're worthless to us and to their development sitting in the stands or on the bench or playing in a poor reserve team, especially the one's who have seen competitive first-team football before i.e. Mellor and Winchester and M'Changama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 What does SC want? What has he asked PD to achieve? Our support is only good enough for the position we are in. We are still 16th. Anybody who thought we were going to get much out of this, I hoped for a draw, and the Doncaster game lives in a parallel universe. We need to beat Crewe and then Scunthorpe and be on 32 points by the year end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 On another note, one of our nurtured talents, Kieran Lee, has only played one time in the league this season for Wednesday. If Wabara goes back to City in January which looks increasingly likely with his recent form and our position and City's desire to get their loanee's further up the leagues, maybe he could return. I like Connor Brown and if we don't get a replacement for Wabara then I'd be fine with him taking the RB position but I'm not sure he's ready for week-in-week out football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 'Being Liverpool' on TV it was interesting to see how Brendan Rogers was influencing the club not just for the next match but for the next few seasons - now I know Liverpool and Latics are a long way apart but does anyone see that the Latics have any strategy other than getting in a few out of contract players and loanees each season and hoping for the best. Are those involved in the youth set up at fault here? Same staff for years and who have they brought through that's amounted to anything? We could actually compete with other league one & championship clubs in this area but don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 We are in by no means the best position to have a long term plan, but when Dickov says that we are building something here it's very easy to pick holes in his statement. After last weeks result, today would've been a good opportunity to throw in some of the fringe players and youngsters to see how much of an impact they could make, instead the only change he makes is an enforced one. I think all the 1st team squad are useful to us in some way, shape or form but they are far from irreplaceable. I don't know the best way for us to approach the 2nd half of the season but if we are at a crossroads then I have a strong concern that the road straight ahead leads to a bad place. Our brightest talent to most people, David Mellor, wasn't even on the bench today. Looks unlikely he'll be getting his chance. I also really like Yousuff M'Changama who is only 22 but he isn't getting games either. Connor Hughes has been used very infrequently. Winchester has seen little action and Millar wasn't on the bench either. They're all playing in the reserves who aren't too good, they're not getting competitive football and when they did it was for a very lowly team. Get 'em in the team or loan them out. They're worthless to us and to their development sitting in the stands or on the bench or playing in a poor reserve team, especially the one's who have seen competitive first-team football before i.e. Mellor and Winchester and M'Changama. Good points chaps. It would be good to see what a bit of youthful exuberance and lack of fear does to the team. Any of those you think could just go for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I like Connor Brown and if we don't get a replacement for Wabara then I'd be fine with him taking the RB position but I'm not sure he's ready for week-in-week out football. I can't agree with this, I have not seen this kid make a mistake all season............................ leave him in every week (his enthusiasm deserves it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I can't agree with this, I have not seen this kid make a mistake all season............................ leave him in every week (his enthusiasm deserves it). It's not particularly his ability. He's full of it, in fact, I would go as far as to say he is the best talent we have at the club. His temperament still worries me. He has a mad streak in him and with the lack of leaders in the side to discipline him, I can see maybe some stupid mistakes. I agree with you though, he's been tremendous so far, defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatjoe1 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Long termism is impossible when you have a revolving door policy. How many players have we had in the last three years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Its really hard to see the grand plan and has been for sometime we have had to consistantly cut back the budget seen crowds dwindle Boundary Park just keeps decaying a new stand is no more than a few pretty pictures Will see this even get started in the next 12 months I want it too don't we all and I'm hoping a new stand can just get us started on some forward momentum and stop this consistant stagnation We are on the verge of sacking yet another manager one who we have given more time than most others but like the other 9 managers we have had in the 15 years of league 1 can't get us to go forward and with a udget that has been cut year on year you are always going to struggle. We have had alot of people come on this board and tell us why they no longer go and the same things come uplack of a buzz, poor facilities, poor football. If you want to get these people back or better still if you want to get a new generation who will come and watch us then you need to give them something to inspire them. I'm hoping a new stand with add ons will start having the efffect of money comeing back into the club crowds start to rise and we see a better standrard of football. I'm hoping this can happen soon and we see a turn in fortunes, But a change in fortunes isn't going to happen with a new man in the dugout it will be papering over the cracks yet again anyone who thinks the problems begin and end here are not seeing the bigger picture. We've heard this idea coming from both Corney and Dickov about this being the most talented side in years and quite frankly its the biggest load of bollocks I've heard in a long time for me out of the current crop only Jose Baxter would get into any of John Sheridans Oldhan Athletic sides. It doesn't take away from the fact that we are still underachieving but some of the talk at the start of this season was that this side would challenge for the top 6 which was pie in the sky. I resigned myself to the fact that Paul Dickov will not be our manager for much longer a change here alone is not going to see any real lasting change just ask the other 8 managers we've had since we've been in league 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatjoe1 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 It's a vicious circle. We really need investment. Investment for the ground. Investment to cover wages and buy players whilst making losses for a few years. Both of these will eventually bring in the crowds. Investment is the key. We ain't got any. We're screwed. In the meantime, a new manager might give us a temporary boost, like the much maligned Ronnie. Then the circle will simply turn back. Perhaps we need to just enjoy the matchday experience without ever having any lurking ambitions of any kind............the pies...the warmth...the humour....the toilet facilities.....the grass (it's so green)......the comfortable seats designed for the bigger framed gentlemen..... I'll be there on Saturday! It's like being married. I really want to scream and punch someone in extreme frustration, there is an increasingly limp feeling in the groin, the stress, the cost, the dread come Saturday night afternoon(and she/it don't get prettier without any investment, trust me), but you still feel the love and life wouldn't quite be the same without her/it. It would just leave a big hole! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) Its really hard to see the grand plan and has been for sometime we have had to consistantly cut back the budget seen crowds dwindle Boundary Park just keeps decaying a new stand is no more than a few pretty pictures Will see this even get started in the next 12 months I want it too don't we all and I'm hoping a new stand can just get us started on some forward momentum and stop this consistant stagnation We are on the verge of sacking yet another manager one who we have given more time than most others but like the other 9 managers we have had in the 15 years of league 1 can't get us to go forward and with a udget that has been cut year on year you are always going to struggle. We have had alot of people come on this board and tell us why they no longer go and the same things come uplack of a buzz, poor facilities, poor football. If you want to get these people back or better still if you want to get a new generation who will come and watch us then you need to give them something to inspire them. I'm hoping a new stand with add ons will start having the efffect of money comeing back into the club crowds start to rise and we see a better standrard of football. I'm hoping this can happen soon and we see a turn in fortunes, But a change in fortunes isn't going to happen with a new man in the dugout it will be papering over the cracks yet again anyone who thinks the problems begin and end here are not seeing the bigger picture. We've heard this idea coming from both Corney and Dickov about this being the most talented side in years and quite frankly its the biggest load of bollocks I've heard in a long time for me out of the current crop only Jose Baxter would get into any of John Sheridans Oldhan Athletic sides. It doesn't take away from the fact that we are still underachieving but some of the talk at the start of this season was that this side would challenge for the top 6 which was pie in the sky. I resigned myself to the fact that Paul Dickov will not be our manager for much longer a change here alone is not going to see any real lasting change just ask the other 8 managers we've had since we've been in league 1. There are some bright young managers out there in non league, but they are constantly overlooked in favour of failed experienced managers or recently retired players brandishing their new coaching badges (all singing from the same tattered hymn book). One was mentioned on here the other day, who after taking his 2 previous clubs to promotion has now changed the fortunes around of Grimsby Town to go top of the Conference...a certain Rob Scott (jointly with Paul Hurst). Looks like a a couple of guys on the way up. Edited December 23, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 But a change in fortunes isn't going to happen with a new man in the dugout it will be papering over the cracks yet again anyone who thinks the problems begin and end here are not seeing the bigger picture. We've heard this idea coming from both Corney and Dickov about this being the most talented side in years and quite frankly its the biggest load of bollocks I've heard in a long time for me out of the current crop only Jose Baxter would get into any of John Sheridans Oldhan Athletic sides. It doesn't take away from the fact that we are still underachieving but some of the talk at the start of this season was that this side would challenge for the top 6 which was pie in the sky. I don't think many Latics fans can be accused of doing that - most are aware of the infrastructure problems the club has. It's a bit of a cop-out to constantly blame the lack of long-term goals of the club for poor player and management performances that are happening now - there are issues purely on the playing side that have just been dreadful. We have enough quality here and they should be doing better than they are. That has nothing to do with budget, the fourth stand, dwindling crowds or the pies selling out. There's quite a few players that have been bought in that we're fairly unspectacular signings that could have gone either way (Brown, Grounds, Byrne, Taylor...). It's unfortunate that none of them have really turned out to be good, but the real disappointments have been the "big" signings like Croft, Simpson, Montano and Wes. It's these players that are cutting the biggest parts out of the budget but have just been an absolute let down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 We can't buy our way out of this mess. Don't forget the wages cap. We do have two players for the future - Dan Taylor and Liam Jacob. The future is staying in League 1 and just staying in League 1 isn't going to give us the buzz we want. Vicious circle. As hard as it is we have to Keep the Faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 There are some bright young managers out there in non league, but they are constantly overlooked in favour of failed experienced managers or recently retired players brandishing their new coaching badges (all singing from the same tattered hymn book).One was mentioned on here the other day, who after taking his 2 previous clubs to promotion has now changed the fortunes around of Grimsby Town to go top of the Conference...a certain Rob Scott (jointly with Paul Hurst). Looks like a a couple of guys on the way up. 2 names for you Dave Penney and Brian Talbot Both had success at Non-league before trying their hand at Latics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) 2 names for you Dave Penney and Brian Talbot Both had success at Non-league before trying their hand at Latics 2 names for you Martin O' Neill and Nigel Adkins. Both had successes at Non-league now plying their trade in the Premiership. Edited December 24, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimeblue Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 2 names for you Dave Penney and Brian Talbot Both had success at Non-league before trying their hand at Latics Both of whom statistically probably have a better record than PD. There's half a season, intermittent decentness and the fact he's not as much of a dick as those 2 that's somehow keeping him from being classed in the same category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Scott McNiven is giving it a decent fist at Hyde. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) Scott McNiven is giving it a decent fist at Hyde. On probably the smallest budget in the league too. I see the coach there is the well respected Gavin McCann, Edited December 24, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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