What do you think of this ?

[ceskylatic]

Personally,I don't give a kipper's dick about the England national team or how well they do.As a supporter of a lower league club,what affiliation to these overhyped and overpaid Premier League players do I have?Yes they were born in the same country as myself,but I don't think I could feel anymore detached from them.

However,surely Dyke and his cronies are not naive enough to believe this madcap plan to introduce a League Three will have any effect whatsoever on the development of the national side.Perhaps they want to be seen as trying to be proactive but it just appears to be a half-baked idea that hasn't been thought through.

[oafc-latics]

Thought a lot about this - this plan is nonsense and would add absolutely nothing. It would be relatively easy to sort out the English game as I see it:

 

• Announce now that starting in 2020, 7/11 of the starting XI for all Premier League clubs must be eligible for selection by England. This would force them to immediately put some of their big bucks towards youth systems.
• Put proper investment into grassroots - maybe a tax by the FA of 1% on transfer fees to cover it?
• For God's sakes stop putting children on full sized pitches. Refereed many an U12 game that ends up about 13-8 because the goal is 8ft high and the goalkeeper is half that! They just end up shooting from anywhere!
• Maybe further reform the youth game - no 11 a side leagues till 14? Play small sided stuff till then, on appropriately sized pitches

Not a chance in hell they'll do it, would likely ruin their precious profit margins...

 

Exactly, this League Three bollocks will just mean that more kids who haven't been coached as well as they could have been will get signed up. And then play their careers in League Three. I know this is all for the national team, but I didn't realise it was for the England C team.

 

Not read the report, but everything I've heard has pretty much no mention of coaches. Don't know the exact numbers, but England has about 10% of the top quality coaches as Spain/Germany/France. More British coaches = better British players and managers = More British players and managers at the top.

[jimsleftfoot]

Is it right in saying that with the ban on European players we would not be able to sign the likes of wesolowski kusunga if it came about in 2017-18. How is this fair on us when a man city can spend loads on an augero or the next big thing. These forego players help to develop the younger players and if you have a look at the lower most are British born players. Why don't they do something about the premier greed that will sort it out. Like Adrian Durham stated that there is a lot of Wnglish players playing like Lallana and Barkley you only need 23 players I'm show we have enough for that

 

If Kusunga has Swiss nationality, I think he is covered by similar rules to the EU (as our EEA countries). Yes Aussies would be a problem, but Wes may have or probably could apply for dual Aussie/GB citizenship being that he's been over here for about a decade.

[slystallone]

Personally,I don't give a kipper's dick about the England national team or how well they do.As a supporter of a lower league club,what affiliation to these overhyped and overpaid Premier League players do I have?Yes they were born in the same country as myself,but I don't think I could feel anymore detached from them.

However,surely Dyke and his cronies are not naive enough to believe this madcap plan to introduce a League Three will have any effect whatsoever on the development of the national side.Perhaps they want to be seen as trying to be proactive but it just appears to be a half-baked idea that hasn't been thought through.

I'm like you, i'm so disattached to the National side now. I barely watch England games now; maybe the later night highlights if nothing else is on, but i haven't watched a live England game for years.

 

I still want to side to do as well as possible; but i really don't want any changes to try and inprove tr National side to affect my own club at lower league level.

 

The stupid thing about this whole debarcle is the B Team farce is taking away from some decent points in the rest of the report.

 

I just can't believe that having alledgedly studied Spain and how they do things, the main thing they've taken away is the B Team.

Spain have over 25,000 FIFA accredited coaches working at grass-roots level.

England has less than 3,000.

 

That should be the focus.

Improve the younger players during their formative development years - give them access to better coaches, better facilities and give them a better chance.

 

An 18 / 19 year from a Premier League side playing at a level equivilent to the Conference Premier is not going to suddenly develop into a World Star from playing at that level. That player, having been given better coaching and better facitilities at an earlier age would be a better & more rounded player at that age though; and might not need the B Team - he might be ready for the 1st team sooner?

 

Its the development level - grass roots - that needs the attention.

Then, its Premier League clubs youth sides that need looking at. A Cap / Block on foreign youth players in those sides would give better through-fare and access to Engligh youngsters coming through.

Maybe a slight tweak here & there to the current loan system to freshen it up; and there really is no need whatsoever for a bollocks idea like a newly created B Team league.

 

Awful idea and so out of touch with the feelings of English football fans from teams outside of the Premier League; and to an extent, the Championship.

 

Its such a bollocks idea - it's almost certain to be passed and go ahead.

[Twisbrogan]

Spot on Sly, especially with the selective assessment of why Spain produces players with better control and game intelligence. How they put this down to B teams rather than quality coaching is crazy.

 

There are some worthwhile debates to be had from the report but there's no way will the FA stand up to the Premier League to implement them such as quotas for home grown players in squads. The commission would probably view the imposition of B teams on the rest of the Football League as easy pickings though. If the PL clubs cared about developing more British players, they'd be doing it now but they're not. A few weeks ago when my lad was training at City's Platt Lane, a lad from Germany was being shown around before being a guest at a match in the afternoon in readiness for him signing. He must have been 10 or 11 - they don't care about the national game and why should they but the FA should stop trying to convince us that they do (which is what they did when the PL was initially launched).

 

I'd like to have been in the commission room when someone pointed out that in the late 70s & 80s, English clubs dominated European competition with loads of British players and yet England didn't ever look close winning anything.

[ceskylatic]

Very good point Sly re the coaching.I wasn't aware of the difference in numbers though compared to Spain.That's quite an eye-opener.

Lack of adequate facilities at grassroots level is a contributory factor to the hindrance of development also,add to that the continual cuts from local government meaning less facilities are available each year.

[nzlatic]

Had a listen to the Mills v Claridge debate. It started with Dyke being interviewed and when challenged about the proposals his answer was along the lines of "well, if people don't want the england team to do well then we won't bother". Terrible, childish reaction.

 

Claridge absolutely destroyed Mills. The coaching point was raised and that's apparently being looked at as well later in the year. It's baffling to think that the B team proposal is the first thing to suggest over the lack of coaches.

Mills also talks about how the loan system is failing. His example is Ross Barkley who went to Leeds on loan but didn't get played. Yep, cos it's really gone to :censored: for him since then hasn't it Mills?

 

The people they've got to argue the case for this haven't put forward one point yet that can't be shot down.

[HarryBosch]

The most amazing thing about the way they continuously dismiss the coaching issue is that there must be thousands and thousands of people out there who'd be up for getting involved in it part time/voluntarily then possibly full time if they found they had an aptitude for it.

 

I've got a 3 yr old lad and I really hope he gets into playing in a few years and I can get involved in coaching like a couple of mates I know have done. There are already courses out there at kids levels and surely it would be so, so easy to extend it's scope and there'd be plenty of take up?

[HarryBosch]

Another big difference in Spain is if you walk around any town or city there are fenced in, floodlit all weather multi use, free public pitches - also usually with basketball hoops and marked out for handball and the like aswell as football.

 

Even in the centre of Madrid of busy city centre streets amidst apartment blocks they're everywhere.

 

Granted their winters aren't as harsh as ours but they do get bad weather and they're still able to play.

 

We spent 4 or 5 hours a night playing until it was dark for 3 summer months when I was a kid then didn't for the other 9 months of the year.

[deyres42]

Dyke is a shrewd cookie, doubt for a second that he thinks the headline grabbing proposal will ever see the light of day, it has got people talking about it though which is half the battle.

[HarryBosch]

Dyke is a shrewd cookie, doubt for a second that he thinks the headline grabbing proposal will ever see the light of day, it has got people talking about it though which is half the battle.

 

Disagree. He sounds palpably bemused and affronted that it's met with such negative reaction when you hear him interviewed on it.

[opinions4u]

Dyke is a shrewd cookie, doubt for a second that he thinks the headline grabbing proposal will ever see the light of day, it has got people talking about it though which is half the battle.

There's another agenda behind it. Or he's a cock.

[help_shiny]

cant help getting the feeling that we are being set up for a fall here dickhead dyke and his cronies know this would never get through and would meet with lots of opposition watch them "listen to the fans/clubs etc " and withdraw it but substitute something else as "we took this away but are gonna have to do this rather than nothing " and it be a fudge that in the long run doesent do anything for the clubs outside the premier league

 

I'm also thinking along those lines."great news guys, we've listened to your feedback and are pulling the B team idea.Instead *drum roll* we've decided to let PL clubs buy FL clubs.Everyone's a winner"

[deyres42]

 

Disagree. He sounds palpably bemused and affronted that it's met with such negative reaction when you hear him interviewed on it.

True, and I haven't been following it that closely, doubt they thought the backlash would be quite so hostile though and it strikes me as being the start of a means to an end rather than something they will go through with.

[jimsleftfoot]

Had a listen to the Mills v Claridge debate. It started with Dyke being interviewed and when challenged about the proposals his answer was along the lines of "well, if people don't want the england team to do well then we won't bother". Terrible, childish reaction.

 

Claridge absolutely destroyed Mills. The coaching point was raised and that's apparently being looked at as well later in the year. It's baffling to think that the B team proposal is the first thing to suggest over the lack of coaches.

Mills also talks about how the loan system is failing. His example is Ross Barkley who went to Leeds on loan but didn't get played. Yep, cos it's really gone to :censored: for him since then hasn't it Mills?

 

The people they've got to argue the case for this haven't put forward one point yet that can't be shot down.

Did Mills have anything else to say about Barkley or was that his argument? If so, what an assumption.

 

See this perhaps highlights a major problem with this report. The idea that playing time in competitive matches is the be all and end all. So it's nothing to do with the individuals themselves under achieving, losing focus? Are lessons not learnt from being in a 'real' environment like Oldham or league 1?

[jimsleftfoot]

True, and I haven't been following it that closely, doubt they thought the backlash would be quite so hostile though and it strikes me as being the start of a means to an end rather than something they will go through with.

 

I think they have been rather condecending towards lower league clubs. The report is rubbish one sided crap without decent analysis. For it to be any good, it should be seeking to disprove what it is looking to implement in order to provide a strong arugment, it's got nowhere near doing that.

[leeslover]

I just can't get past thinking it's a :censored: idea from the development point of view. At the moment they can loan players out to the right level and the right club for them to learn - like Bertrand going up a level after us. They'll learn a lot less playing with other kids. How does that compare with playing beside a Sean Gregan, Andy Liddell or Simon Charlton in a real game?

[BlueJazzer]

Sly and Cesky. I don't get it. Why the 'detatchment' from the English team? What does supporting a lower league team have to do with anything? Does that mean if we were in the premier league and had an international then you'd be a fan again? What about a bit of national :censored:ing pride? The only attachment you have with Oldham Athletic is that (presumably) you were born here. And I'm also presuming you were born in England? Just because we are too :censored: (yeah I said it) to have Internationals in our team doesn't mean you shouldn't follow them. That's just bitterness.

Edited May 9, 2014 by BlueJazzer

[latic12345]

The idea generally is ridiculous. The lower league structure here is probably the best in the world. We have over 92 professional clubs and I can only see this being hurt by having B teams. The good young players in the top clubs already play at our level or above through the loan system. Creating these B teams means this is less likely to happen and will have a significant impact on the game in the lower leagues.

 

The issue I have though is more with the xenophobic nonsense of foreign players ruininng our national team that drives people to solve problems that simply dont exist. I think we all accept that the England team is in a transitionary period. However, the stat quoted yesterday was that there were 32% of starting births in the Premier League given to players eligible to play for England in 2012-13 compared to 69% 20 years previously. Forgive me, but can someone please remind what all these players elgible to play for England were doing in the Summer of 1994 whilst the football world was playing in the USA? Can anyone compare that to what the 32% will be doing in the Summer of 2014? I know which cohort I'd rather be in...

 

The fact is that English football has never really competed on an international stage. We won the World Cup once, in our own back yard. Outside of that we've made the Semi Finals once and it was a huge surprise and a gigantic effort from Bobby Robson and his team. After that, the best we have ever achieved is the Quarter Finals. This still means we are in the top 8 in the world. It can also be argued that the timing is pretty poor as, despite being in a transitionary period, the future for England looks bright right now with Rooney still around for a few more years, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Wilshere, Sterling, Sturridge, Barklay, Henderson, Finnegan, Stones, Lallana, Rodriguez, Luke Shaw and Joe Hart still probably having 8-10 years left at the top to name those who come to mind off the top of my head.

 

Attracting all these "foreigners" means we have the most commercial and, what is generally acknowledged as, the most exciting league in the world. It attracts huge amounts of investment and is probably one of our biggest exports. If we want to improve the national side, embrace it. Attract more investment. Then ensure that these large sums of investment are used correctly - to improve the grass roots of the game and improve the facilities and coaching of the next generation not syphoned out of the game through huge wages, agents fees and leveraged buy outs. Don't ruin the very fabric of the game.

Edited May 9, 2014 by latic12345

[HarryBosch]

Sly and Cesky. I don't get it. Why the 'detatchment' from the English team? What does supporting a lower league team have to do with anything? Does that mean if we were in the premier league and had an international then you'd be a fan again? What about a bit of national :censored:ing pride? The only attachment you have with Oldham Athletic is that (presumably) you were born here. And I'm also presuming you were born in England? Just because we are too :censored: (yeah I said it) to have Internationals in our team doesn't mean you shouldn't follow them. That's just bitterness.

I would have agreed with this 5 or 10 years ago.

 

But, it's changed.

 

When I was a kid and into my 20's I wouldn't miss an England friendly, in fact I probably never did from being a young kid until maybe age 30.

But then Gascoigne, Beardsley, Lineker, Shearer, Butcher, Pearce etc were replaced with Ferdinand, Ashley Cole, Rooney and various other objectionable wankers who epitomise everything that has become wrong with top flight football in this country.

 

Every England game was always on TV aswell at a time when ITV's Big Match was our only opportunity to watch live football on TV. Nowadays I'd rather watch Chelsea playing Atletico Madrid than an England friendly with a third string Brazil side.

 

And friendlies - we used to field full strength sides for 70 minutes and, if I remember rightly, had a decades long record of never having been beaten at home. Nowadays they're a farce, mainly due to Premier League clubs calling the shots with regards to how long England are allowed to use their player for.

 

And Latics was a predominantly enjoyable experience during those days and a matchday only pastime, now you're SOMETIMES WORRIED whereas back then all was well and you can talk about it with other Latics fans all day long on the internet. It's become all consuming where it never even could have been in the past.

 

It's changed.

 

Don't get me wrong though, tournament summers watching England games in the pub with mates are second only to a decent Latics away trip and probably better than Stevenage at home on a cold Saturday in October. If we do ever win anything that weekend for me will be as lost as anybody elses.

 

It's still not quite the same as it used to be though and Oldham is more important than England to me now when there was a time they'd have been equal.

 

These proposal's from Dyke have highlighted the fact I don't actually care about England as much as I used to and care about Latics more. Or both.

Edited May 9, 2014 by HarryBosch

[oafcmetty]

 

And Latics was a predominantly enjoyable experience during those days and a matchday only pastime, now you're constantly wracked with worry and can talk about it with other Latics fans all day long on the internet. It's become all consuming where it never even could have been in the past.

 

Err what?

[nzlatic]

Did Mills have anything else to say about Barkley or was that his argument? If so, what an assumption.

 

See this perhaps highlights a major problem with this report. The idea that playing time in competitive matches is the be all and end all. So it's nothing to do with the individuals themselves under achieving, losing focus? Are lessons not learnt from being in a 'real' environment like Oldham or league 1?

 

Mills brought up the overhaul of the loan system, Claridge asked what was wrong with it and Mills gave the Barkley example. He didn't elaborate on it. Claridge went on to raise the real issues with the loan system - namely it's hard for teams to afford to loan the quality players because they earn so much.

 

Mills also championed the feeder team idea, seemingly saying that part of the problem is that young english players go out on loan and don't get coached properly. So with the feeder system the Prem teams would be able to "control that". Claridge kicked off saying that you can't have prem teams taking over the running of league teams.

[HarryBosch]

Err what?

The fact we nearly went out of business, could do again, are usually toying with relegation etc.....

 

"constantly" was maybe too strong a word though

[HarryBosch]

Mills brought up the overhaul of the loan system, Claridge asked what was wrong with it and Mills gave the Barkley example. He didn't elaborate on it. Claridge went on to raise the real issues with the loan system - namely it's hard for teams to afford to loan the quality players because they earn so much.

 

Mills also championed the feeder team idea, seemingly saying that part of the problem is that young english players go out on loan and don't get coached properly. So with the feeder system the Prem teams would be able to "control that". Claridge kicked off saying that you can't have prem teams taking over the running of league teams.

Is there anything in the rules at the moment to stop is having an agreement, formal or informal, with a club like City or Liverpool where LJ could work a bit with Veira or Pellegrini or Rodgers and take their players on season long loans on the proviso we adopt certain coaching practices that they'd want us to?

[nzlatic]

 

I would have agreed with this 5 or 10 years ago.

 

But, it's changed.

 

When I was a kid and into my 20's I wouldn't miss an England friendly, in fact I probably never did from being a young kid until maybe age 30.

But then Gascoigne, Beardsley, Lineker, Shearer, Butcher, Pearce etc were replaced with Ferdinand, Ashley Cole, Rooney and various other objectionable wankers who epitomise everything that has become wrong with top flight football in this country.

 

Every England game was always on TV aswell at a time when ITV's Big Match was our only opportunity to watch live football on TV. Nowadays I'd rather watch Chelsea playing Atletico Madrid than an England friendly with a third string Brazil side.

 

And friendlies - we used to field full strength sides for 70 minutes and, if I remember rightly, had a decades long record of never having been beaten at home. Nowadays they're a farce, mainly due to Premier League clubs calling the shots with regards to how long England are allowed to use their player for.

 

And Latics was a predominantly enjoyable experience during those days and a matchday only pastime, now you're constantly wracked with worry and can talk about it with other Latics fans all day long on the internet. It's become all consuming where it never even could have been in the past.

 

It's changed.

 

Don't get me wrong though, tournament summers watching England games in the pub with mates are second only to a decent Latics away trip and probably better than Stevenage at home on a cold Saturday in October. If we do ever win anything that weekend for me will be as lost as anybody elses.

 

It's still not quite the same as it used to be though and Oldham is more important than England to me now when there was a time they'd have been equal.

 

These proposal's from Dyke have highlighted the fact I don't actually care about England as much as I used to and care about Latics more. Or both.

I'm pretty much in the same boat. 15 years ago I used to stand in pubs and sing the national anthem for :censored:ty midweek friendlies. Now I don't even watch qualifiers properly on the tv. I'm partly putting that down to being mid 30s now, but a lot of it is to do with the players. To go from Butcher, Pearce, Gazza, Platt, Lineker, Ince, Adams, Shearer etc who you could really get behind to Ferdinand, Lampard, Cole, Rooney - all precious wankers who earn far too much.

 

Plus out of all the players of the last 10 years or so, how many played overseas? How many want to better themselves as footballers and people and how many just want to negiotiate the biggest possible contract whilst their wags can concentrate on being papped for OK?

 

I've no idea what society is like in other countries, but England is all about fame and fortune, not achievement. How many of our champions in any sport go on to be multiple champions? They get to a certain level and they're happy with their lot.

 

It's just so hard to get behind the team when they don't seem to care whether they win or not. The difference in class between the players from the 90s I've mentioned and those from the 00s is massive, but the 90s lot got to 2 semi finals. The "better footballers" of the 00s and 10s have done nothing.