rudemedic Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) In overly simplified terms there are two ways to play against higher ranked opposition in the cup. Park the bus or pull the bluff and blow the :censored:ing bugle from kick-off. We attempted to park the bus tonight, we went for it against Liverpool (and to a lesser extent Everton). If you lose going either way you always look a bit of a prick, but the fans would rather see us go for it and lose (actually spanked would more often than not be more appropriate) than lose meekly having obviously gone for parking the bus. It was a cup game against fairly decent higher league opposition, if they turn up 999/1000 they win. They turned up, but didn't really have to and hence they won. Whilst BP's repetitive banging of the too defensive at home drum is a bit irksome he has a point, Leyton Orient are legitimate contenders for promotion this season but that doesn't mean we should park the bus at home in the league (you should never do that at this level really), if Johnson parks the bus and we still lose the moaning could be as biblical as the rain tonight. Doubly so given our unbeaten league run. I'd expect that the majority of the team that finished should expect to start, bar bringing in Jones and Forte, although some others might change positions. The fact that tonight was a bit of a free pass doesn't disguise that more one player was poor and a few more were below par. Edited August 12, 2014 by rudemedic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC0AFC Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 mellor,some tidy stuff!!!!!!!winchester glides across the pitch and is a class apart!!WTF,is this a joke of a post or have you had too many stellas before the kickoff Mellor/Winchester different players don't compare them... Mellor wasnt our worst performer tonight, tried to play a few really good passes, woodgate and ayala just one step ahead... don't write him off just yet (well, most have anyway) Winchester did what he does best, glides through defences like there training cones, needs to be central to be most effective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc21 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I think that's the balanced view of what we saw tonight. They were clearly the better side, with better quality players. But what looked worrying was that their better technically players also looked fitter and more up for the game than ours did? And that shouldnt happen; especially the 'up for it' part. Not once did one of our players actually snap into a challenge and come out of a 50/50 with the ball, we lost every individual battle. The gulf in quality was plain to see. Reach, Whitehead, Leadbietter, Williams, Nsue, Ayala, Woodgate....they were just so much better than our players. But they also wanted it; when ours didnt appear to. And that's a real worry. My 1st competitve game of the season having missing Colchester. I watched the Hudds pre-season game though; so its 2 games in for me. Too early to make any real sweeping judgements on the players. What i will say is Liam Kelly doesnt look anywhere newr good enough at present; he was utterly pish tonight. Mellor, JCH, Philliskirk, Mills & B Wilson also all had shocking games. But Kelly in particular was simply awful. Benifit of the doubt for all of them. I'll put it down to early season rustiness, and a lack of match sharpness. I hope it's that though, i really do. I'm clutching at straws, but the bright sparks from tonight were the 2 half time subs; Dayton & Winchester. And at a push, Dieng stuck with it and kept going and at least tried to affect the game. But even then, i'm pushing it. Best to sweep this one under the carpet i think. It was awful. Really bad. I hope it's a freak, a blip and we never go 5 at the back at home again. And we never :censored: out of evey single challenge again. And we manage to actually put some passes together again, instead of shanking it out of play or giving it straight to the opposition... I'm hoping it improves; quickly... spot on sly,boro seemed a lot more up for it than we did in the 50\50 challenges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I think that's the balanced view of what we saw tonight. They were clearly the better side, with better quality players. But what looked worrying was that their better technically players also looked fitter and more up for the game than ours did? And that shouldnt happen; especially the 'up for it' part. Not once did one of our players actually snap into a challenge and come out of a 50/50 with the ball, we lost every individual battle. The gulf in quality was plain to see. Reach, Whitehead, Leadbietter, Williams, Nsue, Ayala, Woodgate....they were just so much better than our players. But they also wanted it; when ours didnt appear to. And that's a real worry. My 1st competitve game of the season having missing Colchester. I watched the Hudds pre-season game though; so its 2 games in for me. Too early to make any real sweeping judgements on the players. What i will say is Liam Kelly doesnt look anywhere newr good enough at present; he was utterly pish tonight. Mellor, JCH, Philliskirk, Mills & B Wilson also all had shocking games. But Kelly in particular was simply awful. Benifit of the doubt for all of them. I'll put it down to early season rustiness, and a lack of match sharpness. I hope it's that though, i really do. I'm clutching at straws, but the bright sparks from tonight were the 2 half time subs; Dayton & Winchester. And at a push, Dieng stuck with it and kept going and at least tried to affect the game. But even then, i'm pushing it. Best to sweep this one under the carpet i think. It was awful. Really bad. I hope it's a freak, a blip and we never go 5 at the back at home again. And we never :censored: out of evey single challenge again. And we manage to actually put some passes together again, instead of shanking it out of play or giving it straight to the opposition... I'm hoping it improves; quickly... Like you say the worrying thing was the attitude, we have played higher grade sides before at home and always took the game to them. The manager said before tonight's game the team must not start sluggishly, the other worrying thing is the players don't appear to be listening to him as again the opposition was handed the early initiative. You can bet the Leyton Orient scout will be reporting this back to the manager and he will tell his players to take early control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) I think that's the balanced view of what we saw tonight. They were clearly the better side, with better quality players. But what looked worrying was that their better technically players also looked fitter and more up for the game than ours did? And that shouldnt happen; especially the 'up for it' part. Not once did one of our players actually snap into a challenge and come out of a 50/50 with the ball, we lost every individual battle. The gulf in quality was plain to see. Reach, Whitehead, Leadbietter, Williams, Nsue, Ayala, Woodgate....they were just so much better than our players. But they also wanted it; when ours didnt appear to. And that's a real worry. My 1st competitve game of the season having missing Colchester. I watched the Hudds pre-season game though; so its 2 games in for me. Too early to make any real sweeping judgements on the players. What i will say is Liam Kelly doesnt look anywhere newr good enough at present; he was utterly pish tonight. Mellor, JCH, Philliskirk, Mills & B Wilson also all had shocking games. But Kelly in particular was simply awful. Benifit of the doubt for all of them. I'll put it down to early season rustiness, and a lack of match sharpness. I hope it's that though, i really do. I'm clutching at straws, but the bright sparks from tonight were the 2 half time subs; Dayton & Winchester. And at a push, Dieng stuck with it and kept going and at least tried to affect the game. But even then, i'm pushing it. Best to sweep this one under the carpet i think. It was awful. Really bad. I hope it's a freak, a blip and we never go 5 at the back at home again. And we never :censored: out of evey single challenge again. And we manage to actually put some passes together again, instead of shanking it out of play or giving it straight to the opposition... I'm hoping it improves; quickly... Just got back and had time to think about the game in the car.Agree with the vast majority of what Sly says. What was disappointing was the apparent lack of "being up for it" , absence of going for loose balls , snapping into tackles . And some basic technical deficiencies were evident - poor passing and control. Mellor in the space of about ten minutes hit four passes straight to Boro players. Sorry, but he had a great chance this evening to claim a place but blew it. Philiskirk? Is this the same player of the first half of last season? Runs but little else at present. Got to have more bite in your play young man. Pluses ? Winchester looked interested , Dayton worked hard, Brown had a good ten minutes after he came on as sub. Defensively- in the first half until they scored Boro hadn't had a shot on target and Elekobi seems a good asset. But we were outclassed . Boro showed how to close down, get to loose balls first, were technically superior and have some very good players. Considering Woodgate & Hines , their centre backs, are unlikely to start on Saturday and they completely snuffed our forwards out , shows the gulf in squads. Oh well , roll on Saturday ! Edited August 12, 2014 by LaticsPete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc21 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Mellor/Winchester different players don't compare them... Mellor wasnt our worst performer tonight, tried to play a few really good passes, woodgate and ayala just one step ahead... don't write him off just yet (well, most have anyway) Winchester did what he does best, glides through defences like there training cones, needs to be central to be most effective im not saying mellor was our worst player tonight but i know for a fact he will never be the best player,as for winchester, he has put more effort in,but as for the comment of(worth the entrance fee)jesus!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 On that showing, and that of the Hudderfield game, for the midfield starting positions; it should be Winchester and.... He has to get a run now. Surely? If he doesnt, he needs to pack a bag, bang on LJ's door and demand a move. He can do no more. He has to start the next 10 games or so; injury / suspension allowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 On that showing, and that of the Hudderfield game, for the midfield starting positions; it should be Winchester and.... He has to get a run now. Surely? If he doesnt, he needs to pack a bag, bang on LJ's door and demand a move. He can do no more. He has to start the next 10 games or so; injury / suspension allowing. The other players must be instructed to give Winchester the ball, not isolate him. Also the manager must give Winchester the license to run at players with the ball and make sure he's supported when breaking at speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 On that showing, and that of the Hudderfield game, for the midfield starting positions; it should be Winchester and.... He has to get a run now. Surely? If he doesnt, he needs to pack a bag, bang on LJ's door and demand a move. He can do no more. He has to start the next 10 games or so; injury / suspension allowing. Depends on what formation we play. We'll get overrun in midfield if it's him and another in CM in a 4-4-2. 4-1-4-1 then its possible to play him in CM and not be overrun but perhaps a possibility is him playing behind the strikers/in front of the midfielders if we play 3-5-2 again which will give him a free role Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Depends on what formation we play. We'll get overrun in midfield if it's him and another in CM in a 4-4-2. 4-1-4-1 then its possible to play him in CM and not be overrun but perhaps a possibility is him playing behind the strikers/in front of the midfielders if we play 3-5-2 again which will give him a free role I have a feeling the 3-5-2 experiment has ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Depends on what formation we play. We'll get overrun in midfield if it's him and another in CM in a 4-4-2. 4-1-4-1 then its possible to play him in CM and not be overrun but perhaps a possibility is him playing behind the strikers/in front of the midfielders if we play 3-5-2 again which will give him a free role He just needs to be in there. FWIW; i'd play him where he was vs Hudds and tonight (i didnt go to Colchester) Wide Right. But not in a traditional winger role. Just a right sided midfielfer, with instruction to get on the ball. On early showings this season (and starting to fulfill on early promise now) - he's our best player and most creative one; most likely to actually "do something" with the ball... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) He just needs to be in there. FWIW; i'd play him where he was vs Hudds and tonight (i didnt go to Colchester) Wide Right. But not in a traditional winger role. Just a right sided midfielfer, with instruction to get on the ball. On early showings this season (and starting to fulfill on early promise now) - he's our best player and most creative one; most likely to actually "do something" with the ball... You mean the role Danny Whitaker played and from where he scored some fine goals Sly ? Edited August 12, 2014 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I have a feeling the 3-5-2 experiment has ended. Possibly, but before it gets binned it should be tried with the right players in the right positions. Brown is more suited to a wingback role than B.Wilson is, Dieng would be better as the middle defender as he seems more suited to bringing the ball out of defence and being able to play as a DM/ sweeper between defence and midfield when attacking. Winchester behind the strikers and based on what I've seen so far that'd be Forte and Gros (fast forward and a target man). CM could be a problem, but considering the injury and time out that Kelly had it could be a while until we see the best of him. He just needs to be in there. FWIW; i'd play him where he was vs Hudds and tonight (i didnt go to Colchester) Wide Right. But not in a traditional winger role. Just a right sided midfielfer, with instruction to get on the ball. On early showings this season (and starting to fulfill on early promise now) - he's our best player and most creative one; most likely to actually "do something" with the ball... Yep that's where he should be played if we do go 4-4-2, kind of like a third CM but playing a bit wider than a CM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhamoafc Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Yes maybe we were against a good team in a league above us, and yes we were underdogs. But that performance is completely unacceptable. The players had no fight, no passion and no intent. They are not helped by these strange tactics that LJ has been using. Saturday we played for 20 minutes after going a goal down and then went back to negativity. And tonight was just pure negative. We change the formation we are using every 10 minutes and it can't be easy for the players. I think we realise that 3-5-2 doesn't work. We have no support up front, midfield is too deep and tw defence looks all over the place! Gros tries hard, movement isn't bad and he shows JCH up with his hold up play and link up play but he's not going to score goals. JCH just doesn't look interested, lazy and he has zero football brains. Kelly is captain anonymous so far, expect better from him. I'd build a team around Winchester, James Wilson Jones(if fit). I'd probably include Dayton in that too, give him games. We miss Lockwood, we look lost at the back and we miss his leadership and organisation skills. I don't understand the concept of resting players in the second game of the season, surely we need to go out to win the game and get these players gelling because at the minute, especially in possession we look like a team of strangers! We don't look fit at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markspark92 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Kelly, Dieng awful gave ball away so many times, Philly and JCH awful struggled to get involved, only standouts where James Wilson and Winchester when he came on, Dayton tried also, very good oppo think they'll be up there this season, I'm not to botherd about League Cup would rather take 3 points on Saturday Edited August 13, 2014 by Markspark92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Guru Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 The boys need a win quick to get morale up as a new bunch...nothing worse than a team without strong bonds in a bad rut as in their heads they will all be blaming each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 mellor,some tidy stuff!!!!!!!winchester glides across the pitch and is a class apart!!WTF,is this a joke of a post or have you had too many stellas before the kickoff I said: Midfield are still finding out about each other, Mellor looked like he has bulked up, some tidy stuff, missing a ball winner in the middle. Note the comma after Mellor? He does look like he has bulked up, (comma there too) we did play some tidy stuff in spells, kept possession, didn't do much with it but for a second game, against higher league opposition we did keep the ball at times. We are missing a ball winner in midfield too. Finally no, I didn't have too many Stellas before the game, I stayed late at work and drove straight there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snookmeister Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 It's a good job we're unlikely to ever get promoted from League One. It would be absolute carnage.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 So why didn't Everton and Liverpool score 6 when we didn't play defensively against them? Different games, Liverpool put a 2/3s strength team out and thought they would steamroller us as we were playing gash at the time, Dickov was going to get sacked if it wasn't for that cup tie. Full BP, magic of the cup, small boys, isn' it, football 'eh? Same as Everton. Last night was a miserable wet night with 4,000 there against a full strength Championship side who were looking to kick on after a win on Saturday. 99 times out of 100 we would lose last nights match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 It's a good job we're unlikely to ever get promoted from League One. It would be absolute carnage.... No danger of that happening for at least 3 years, the team and club are in no shape for that to happen. But, to be fair, Broady has managed to con someone into sponsoring the patch of mud known as the car park behind the Lookers so maybe they can sell ice to the Eskimos, pretty much everything last night was sponsored by something or other so money is coming into the club. Looks like the off field stuff is getting its act together and operating like a 21st century business should, should hopefully rub off on the playing side of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I can guarantee if the players had sprinted around the pitch snapping into tackles and got beaten 3-0 there'd have been a huge clamour for more guile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Guru Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Different games, Liverpool put a 2/3s strength team out and thought they would steamroller us as we were playing gash at the time, Dickov was going to get sacked if it wasn't for that cup tie. Full BP, magic of the cup, small boys, isn' it, football 'eh? Same as Everton. Last night was a miserable wet night with 4,000 there against a full strength Championship side who were looking to kick on after a win on Saturday. 99 times out of 100 we would lose last nights match. I agree...however the manner of the defeat and spirit of defeat was dissapointing. Felt like our plan was containment and once they scored after 30 minutes we didn't know what to do or how to pull it back. No shots on goal is going to be difficult to stomach for fans and LJ needs to find a balance as at the minute it feels like he wants to play a counter attacking game with pace and power on the break but have yet to see that due to lack of drive and impetus in the middle. Especially when jones and Winchester aren't on the pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 It is the second game of the season played in a biblical rain storm last night and I bet half the players don't know the first name of the bloke who was stood next to them on the pitch in the same colour Jersey yet. The only thing you can judge off last night is whether there are any more layers of bricks at the back of the new stand and I forgot to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Slagging off Gros for missing from the penalty spot is harsh, he was trying to deflect a shot from Mills goalwards and didn't quite manage it,. If he could manage to hit the corner flag with it he could've managed to hit the back of the net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Teach a man to fish and he will eat everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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