Stevie_J Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Year to 31st DEC 2004 LOSS 867877 Year to 31st DEC 2005 LOSS 875562 Year to 31st DEC 2006 LOSS 619639 Year to 31st DEC 2007 LOSS 537846 Year to 31st DEC 2008 LOSS 414006 Includes Everton away Year to 31st DEC 2009 LOSS 1523937 Includes Eardley to Blackpool Year to 31st DEC 2010 LOSS 784815 Includes O'Grady to Rochdale Year to 31st DEC 2011 PROFIT 7519 Includes Stephens to Southampton (loan), Stephens to Charlton, Evina to Charlton, Smalley to Oxford & Eaves to Bolton 18 Mths to 30th JUNE 2013 PROFIT 283725 Includes Liverpool AWAY and next season at home & Everton home & away & Furman to Doncaster (loan) Year to 30th JUNE 2014 PROFIT 450180 Includes Liverpool away, Tarkowski to Brentford, cut of Stephens transfer from Charlton to Brighton & Smith to Bristol City Year to 30th JUNE 2015 --------------------------------DUE BY 31ST MARCH 2016 BUT MIGHT BE LATE-USUALLY ARE LATE, including Clarke-Harris to Rotherham & Philliskirk to Blackpool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Thank you Simon. Clearly all profits which relate to supporting our club will find their way to the football club. All profits from from non footballing activity will rest with OEC. This will generate more money for the football club. So far so good and in some eyes not as good as it could have been because it is not all profits from the North Stand. So be it. BUT yes a big BUT. As supporters of the football club - the ones who still pay most of the costs - our main concern seems to be that the football club might be paying for or holding the debt for the construction of the new stand. It seems to me that Brassbank builds the stand and we rent it, or parts of it, from them. If the football club has paid anything towards the cost of constructing or finishing the stand then that can only come out of profits/revenue from football related activities or from new debt. Much depends on the terms of the lease but even if it is a peppercorn rent that would seem rather unfair on the football supporters if profits/revenue from football related activities are either servicing the debt or worse still servicing and repaying the debt. In the likely event that this question will remain unanswered our disquiet will continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Year to 31st DEC 2004 LOSS 867877 Year to 31st DEC 2005 LOSS 875562 Year to 31st DEC 2006 LOSS 619639 Year to 31st DEC 2007 LOSS 537846 Year to 31st DEC 2008 LOSS 414006 Includes Everton away Year to 31st DEC 2009 LOSS 1523937 Includes Eardley to Blackpool Year to 31st DEC 2010 LOSS 784815 Includes O'Grady to Rochdale Year to 31st DEC 2011 PROFIT 7519 Includes Stephens to Southampton (loan), Stephens to Charlton, Evina to Charlton, Smalley to Oxford & Eaves to Bolton 18 Mths to 30th JUNE 2013 PROFIT 283725 Includes Liverpool AWAY and next season at home & Everton home & away & Furman to Doncaster (loan) Year to 30th JUNE 2014 PROFIT 450180 Includes Liverpool away, Tarkowski to Brentford, cut of Stephens transfer from Charlton to Brighton & Smith to Bristol City Year to 30th JUNE 2015 --------------------------------DUE BY 31ST MARCH 2016 BUT MIGHT BE LATE-USUALLY ARE LATE, including Clarke-Harris to Rotherham Thanks Stevie but I have taken out the Sale to Blackpool as it was in Jan 2016. I havent checked the other dates for transfers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Wasn't there an interest rate on the documentation someone found? Should we be asking what the interest rates & charges are for the clubs banking too? What tariff are they on for gas & electricity? How much are we paying for pens? Bogroll? I mentioned the rate previously but looking at the documents again, it was just the default rate of 4% over base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Thanks Stevie but I have taken out the Sale to Blackpool as it was in Jan 2016. I havent checked the other dates for transfers Good spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I mentioned the rate previously but looking at the documents again, it was just the default rate of 4% over base. Cheaper than Wonga then . But what was it for and when is it scheduled to be repaid are the questions that we will probably never get answered-except by Co House searches! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Bascially, if the £6m is static, then things are stable. If OEC is in lieu of interest payements, and does not reduce the debt, a whole financial different picture emerges. So, what you're saying is we've sacrificed one side of our ground and it's commercial aspect (or £6m) for these past 10 years of :censored:e? Or am I wide of the mark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I've said all I can on most of the key matters at this time, however I just thought it pertinent to reply on a couple of things mentioned in this thread. The statement wasn't prompted at all. I've always said to the Trust directors that I would do my very best to provide a public update once a quarter - if you look back my last one was November. This update was already mostly written before my radio appearance last week, but was rehashed to directly answer some of the main questions which I felt were important to address. Yes of course we should all remain vigilant, and as I've said this is my club so even forgetting my Trust role I certainly do and will continue to do so. Football, business and life is not black and white and some on here and on other spaces are drawing definitive conclusions on the future based on what, in reality, is a snapshot of a particular set of circumstances as they are now. Are things perfect - no, but in the real world when are they? Am I panicking about things with all I know - no. With that in mind I would just say that the more successful the North Stand is on both matchdays and non-matchdays the better for all of us. I'm not asking you to forget about asking questions or keep quiet, all I would say is that our most helpful role right now as fans is to back our team and our manager through the upcoming games and continue to play our part in getting the wins we need to stay in this division this season, even cranking it up a few positive notches. Speaking with Shez he's feeling very confident and that'll do for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 You still haven't explained why you think that is such a terrible thing, given that the lads who own Brassbank also own OAFC, albeit two of them don't appear to be actively involved. Let me know when the money from the houses and land sales hit the OAFC accounts / balance sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) So, what you're saying is we've sacrificed one side of our ground and it's commercial aspect (or £6m) for these past 10 years of :censored:e? Or am I wide of the mark? Not quite I don't think, the £6m I refer is the built up debt over the 10 years, but fundamentally for the purchase of the land, seperated to Brass Bank Ltd with potential benefits and downsides of that but currently not OAFC's. So anyone wanting to own OAFC is going to have to do 2 things, pay for OAFC and that brand and FL emembership & pay off BrassBank Ltd for the land. LEts be honest, it makes more sense for TTA to do that, but it can protect OAFC somewhat from other larger debts to, lets say the houses got huge cracks or something. Willt hink of a better examnple. I am going to defer to Chaddy Smoker, but the shareholder debt has decreased a bit over the past 3 years, yet we have found a reported £6.5m for a stand (with £6m for land in 2004 remaining as debt owned wholly by Brassbank not OAFC). £5.7m of the stand cost was OMBC, we seem to have made the shortfall from surplus. It is reported that £250k will be paid back shortly, say £100k for Philly. And possibly 2015 money. As said, it all depends on the arrangements for OEC. We don't know. So we are neutral-ish. I think we are potentially where we were before, with a nice new stand and bit extra season ticket money probably, and rent from the stand. Can't call what that extra is at the moment. Although it is to be hoped that the income from the stand is to reduce debt not interest repayment (which I fear as worse news) but we could still be slightly up in net terms if we get the rent levels right. So, it's not as simple as you infer. Editted to be clear land debt is not PAFC debt. Edited February 4, 2016 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Do we make enough money over the course of a season to cover all our bills? Undisclosed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Let me know when the money from the houses and land sales hit the OAFC accounts / balance sheet. What was the value of those sales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Not quite I don't think, the £6m is the built up debt over the 10 years, but fundamentally for the purchase of the land. I am going to defer to Chaddy Smoker, but the shareholder debt has decreased a bit over the past 3 years, yet we have found a reported £6.5m for a stand (with £6m for land in 2004 remaining as debt). £5.7m was OMBC, we seem to have made the shortfall from surplus. It is reported that £250k will be paid back shortly, say £100k for Philli. And possibly 2015 money. As said, it all depends on the arrangements for OEC. We donlt know. So we are neutral=ish. We are where we were before, with a nice new stand and bit extra season ticket money probably, and rent from the stand. Can't call what that extra is at the moment. Although it is to be hoped that the income from the stand is to reduce debt not interest repayment (which I fear as worse news) but we could still be slightly up in net terms if we get the rent levels right. The land is not part of OAFC. The OAFC debt has nothing to do with the land. Anyone who thinks they are connected is wrong. This needs to be understood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Not quite I don't think, the £6m is the built up debt over the 10 years, but fundamentally for the purchase of the land. I am going to defer to Chaddy Smoker, but the shareholder debt has decreased a bit over the past 3 years, yet we have found a reported £6.5m for a stand (with £6m for land in 2004 remaining as debt). £5.7m was OMBC, we seem to have made the shortfall from surplus. It is reported that £250k will be paid back shortly, say £100k for Philli. And possibly 2015 money. As said, it all depends on the arrangements for OEC. We donlt know. So we are neutral=ish. We are where we were before, with a nice new stand and bit extra season ticket money probably, and rent from the stand. Can't call what that extra is at the moment. Although it is to be hoped that the income from the stand is to reduce debt not interest repayment (which I fear as worse news) but we could still be slightly up in net terms if we get the rent levels right. Reserves (All negative) were £5.4M at 31st Dec 2011 but improved to be at 30th June 2014 £4.7M. Fixed Assets Expenditure in that last year to 30th June 2014 was nearly £2M-This is Spending in the year but might have been financed by loans (TTA) Creditors (including TTA) in that year increased from £6M to £8M. There is no published breakdown of the split. We spent £21K on player(s) on a 3 year deal. We had 1 player or players costing us £52500 who were sold or came to the end of their contract Edited February 4, 2016 by ChaddySmoker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The land is not part of OAFC. The OAFC debt has nothing to do with the land. Anyone who thinks they are connected is wrong. This needs to be understood. I understand it that way too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 What was the value of those sales? Very good question that Linda. Enough to keep Mr Blitz interested that's for sure. Nice little rent amount coming in on some of it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The land is not part of OAFC. The OAFC debt has nothing to do with the land. Anyone who thinks they are connected is wrong. This needs to be understood. I will amend my post, I did not mean to say it in a way that could be imerpretted that is was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) I understand it that way too! And me, have clarified, I did not mean it to imply anything else. Edited February 4, 2016 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Very good question that Linda. Enough to keep Mr Blitz interested that's for sure. Nice little rent amount coming in on some of it as well. Enough to go over and above their investment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Enough to go over and above their investment? I can see several houses at £250k+, but don't know how many bwere built there or were there cheaper houses too. THough they would have had a fairly high cost to. IIRC correctly there si an average of 20% profit, but I cannot recall if it is net or grosss. Net debt of Brass Bank had come down £1m or so, before the new stand, so I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Reserves (All negative) were £5.4M at 31st Dec 2011 but improved to be at 30th June 2014 £4.7M. Fixed Assets Expenditure in that last year to 30th June 2014 was nearly £2M-This is Spending in the year but might have been financed by loans (TTA) Creditors (including TTA) in that year increased from £6M to £8M. There is no published breakdown of the split. We spent £21K on player(s) on a 3 year deal. We had 1 player or players costing us £52500 who were sold or came to the end of their contract I'd think the extra £2m of assets would be the stand (as an asset under construction) and the extra £2m debt is the financing of the stand. On that basis, OAFC own the stand, presumably with a debt increase of around £6m. So then you would expect all sports direct income (rent & sponsorship) to go to OAFC, and rent from all those using the stand (OEC, Gym, other outlets?) to also be paid to OAFC at a full commercial rate. Of course it could be that OEC is only paying a pittance and thereby increasing its profits ; on the other hand it might not, but there are steps a minority shareholder could take if it's a pittance. But, if the income is not sufficient to cover cost of repayment, then the stand is a millstone around the club's neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 When did Oldham Athletic last actually own the land? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) When did Oldham Athletic last actually own the land? 1999 http://www.geocities.ws/Colosseum/Midfield/3860/bb13oct99.htm Edited February 4, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I am updating the Trust section hopefully with achievments but also communications. Ideally I'd like the posts to build up with questions on the Agenda, and then be reflected in the minutes. This is a supplement to the work the Trust do on their website.. http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php/forum/82-trust-oldham/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 When did Oldham Athletic last actually own the land? We should be careful, in my opinion, of just dismissing the ownership of the land on the basis that the club didn't own it before, the council did. The council owned it with the football club having the option to buy it back - the council was letting the club pawn it basically to bail it out of the :censored:. TTA used the club's option to buy it back and immediately separated it from the club and have exploited it as a something completely independent of the club - other than the club being its tenants in the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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