piglinbland Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Exactly. Nothing but contradictions from the 'out' camp. "We are under the yoke of Brussels but exit will cause no change" "We have no say in the EU, but if we leave, Brussels will acquiesce to our every whim" Britain has been in decline for over a century. There is no dynamic on the horizon, no panacea should we leave the EU that would halt our slide into oblivion. On the other hand, there is a chance that Britain, if she wanted to, could influence the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Exactly. Nothing but contradictions from the 'out' camp. "We are under the yoke of Brussels but exit will cause no change" "We have no say in the EU, but if we leave, Brussels will acquiesce to our every whim" Britain has been in decline for over a century. There is no dynamic on the horizon, no panacea should we leave the EU that would halt our slide into oblivion. On the other hand, there is a chance that Britain, if she wanted to, could influence the EU. No, you're just arguing with the voices in your head. Nothing changes for at least 2 years in trading terms with the EU. If you think we can't agree trading terms at least as good as Turkey or Switzerland in that time you are mad, or you think the EU is a nasty bitter organisation that doesn't believe a word of the things it says it stands for and would break all it's obligations to exclude us. If it did, we might still increase our sales to it as many non EU countries have done without trade deals. Britain in decline? You want to imagine that leaving is based on a desire to see Dreadnoughts sailing around the world. I couldn't give a :censored: about that. Britain is kicking are compared to the Eurozone though. It would do far more so without pointless regulations and trading openly with the future of the world economy whilst maintaining relations with it's stagnating and crisis prone past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I'm sat at Calais waiting for a delayed ferry. Three passport checks within about 50 yards after flying between France & Spain twice with no check upon landing. Heavy duty barbed wire all the way in. Passed what I assume is the Jungle. So we don't offer the free movement mainland Europe does so coming out won't change that. But Would staying in mean we may offer it in the future? Would coming out mean we potentially wouldn't have to take any of the people trying to get across from Sangatte? While I like the idea we help such people, within reason, would it be a bad thing if they stopped going to such dangerous lengths to get here & fewer of them died? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Meanwhile, Switzerland are struggling so much they've been considering giving everybody 2 grand a month as a guaranteed minimum income work or play... http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0YR0CW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglinbland Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Switzerland are doing so well outside the EU that they just voted to reject free money! Seriously, the European bank has been studying a plan to hand out money to every EU household in a desperate attempt to stimulate growth. The trouble is, the 100 billion they propose to 'float' would result in little more than 200€ per head - hardly enough to create a spending frenzy. Call me old fashioned, but isn't the best way to get money moving again the creation of tax concessions at the low end of the income bracket? You can always offset by taxing the very rich (heaven forbid!). Within reason, artificial stimulation of the economy works (as seen in Britain). It's time countries like France got rid of their massively complex, self-serving and archaic civil services. OK, I've got that off my chest but I'm still very much in the remain camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 The most reprehensible, profiteering airline known to man - RyanAir - have sent out an email urging people to vote to remain if anyone is still undecided..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 The most reprehensible, profiteering airline known to man - RyanAir - have sent out an email urging people to vote to remain if anyone is still undecided.....Now that they're a big player they'll be after regulations stopping small companies coming up and challenging them like they once did to the likes of BA and Lufthanse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Meanwhile, Switzerland are struggling so much they've been considering giving everybody 2 grand a month as a guaranteed minimum income work or play... http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0YR0CW Not quite, the government were against this and thought it would damage the economy but it was debated as a result of a petition getting 100k + signatures. I'll admit that I'm not sure how it turns into a referendum but it was pretty much shot down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 The most reprehensible, profiteering airline known to man - RyanAir - have sent out an email urging people to vote to remain if anyone is still undecided..... I hope people make such decisions based on what is said and not merely who says it (though Gove to me is equally reprehensible). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 The most reprehensible, profiteering airline known to man - RyanAir - have sent out an email urging people to vote to remain if anyone is still undecided..... Do they still land people at a small airport about 200 miles from the place they thought they were flying to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Does anyone think this whole thing is a massive waste of public money. As Cameron tries to appease people in the Tory party who have been squabbling about Europe for the last 30 years and in some cases people are using this to drive tgeir own personal agendas. Brexit is based on a grievance no plan whatsoever to improve Britain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Does anyone think this whole thing is a massive waste of public money. As Cameron tries to appease people in the Tory party who have been squabbling about Europe for the last 30 years and in some cases people are using this to drive tgeir own personal agendas. Brexit is based on a grievance no plan whatsoever to improve Britain. Exactly. This is an internal tory party squabble that has been thrown to the serfs to 'settle' but just like the Scottish independence referendum it won't solve anything. I can't think of any outcome being better than the other in this one, both are just different ends of the same :censored:ty stick. Like being asked to chose between a punch on the nose or a kick in the balls. I think I'd rather have the punch on the nose as that will hurt short term but will heal possibly at a different angle but still preferable to a kick in the balls which bloody well knacks which ever way you look at it. I think I've decided to vote Remain as whilst I love Europe I think that the EU is a right old bloody mess that needs massive major surgery. Whether it will get this as a result of a Remain vote I don't know, but I do think that if we vote to Leave the whole thing is likely to collapse in about 2 years. As well as just when you have an amicable break up from a partner, you say you will be friends, you might even go for a couple of drinks a few times but sooner or later it ends up with one of you screaming in the street and tears and things as promises are broken and general weirdness descends. Alternatively you decide to stick together and make the best of it even though it makes your skin crawl when they just don't get to the end of the sentence 5 minutes after they have already made their point twice!!! And their mother comes round to often. Vote Remain! It will still be :censored: but possibly less :censored: than to Leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 ‘Understanding’ the concept of anthropic climate change is very easy. Indeed, this is its attraction to those who only require simplistic and convenient answers and the politicos who would choose it as a tool of control. There has been no meaningful ‘debate’ owing to the sceptics (swivel eyed loonies) being pursued with almost religious fervour; the believers ‘refuting all science’ that contradicts or diminishes their theory. As for the ‘real debate being over 20 years ago’ I think not. The main part of the problem lies in the two groups using different definitions of how global warming appears in the climate. This is one of the reasons that those advocating that global warming is real now use the term “climate change,” since it is more reflective of the real issue. The other problem lies in proof, and in studies that try to prove whether or not global warming is real. Contrary to public belief, the results of all scientific studies aren’t conclusive. To be considered proof of a hypothesis, the studies have to be able to be replicated by others and produce the same results. With the global warming studies, analysis of decades of weather data is often used. The first problem is that weather data from 100 years ago wasn’t kept to modern standards of evidence. The second problem is that analysis is interpretation; you can really put any spin on it. This is why some of the arguments for and against whether global warming is real can use the same data and come to different conclusions. Cows and their incessant farting are the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzell54 Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Exactly. This is an internal tory party squabble that has been thrown to the serfs to 'settle' Not exclusively true and it does no good to attempt to reduce this important issue to party politics. There are many Labour MP's past and present who were/are against membership (Hugh Gaitskell, Tony Benn and more recently Frank Field, Tessa Jowell and the Guardian's Owen Jones (who is so far to the left he's almost off the edge). Not to mention a certain J Corbyn, who until recently was vehimently anti EU. I can't think of any outcome being better than the other in this one, both are just different ends of the same :censored:ty stick. Like being asked to chose between a punch on the nose or a kick in the balls. I think I'd rather have the punch on the nose as that will hurt short term but will heal possibly at a different angle but still preferable to a kick in the balls which bloody well knacks which ever way you look at it. I think this is the remain option. I think I've decided to vote Remain as whilst I love Europe I think that the EU is a right old bloody mess that needs massive major surgery. Whether it will get this as a result of a Remain vote I don't know, Cameron's pathetic attempt to renogotiate should give you an answer to this. If not look for evidence of reform over the last 40 years. but I do think that if we vote to Leave the whole thing is likely to collapse in about 2 years. This is a definite possibility regardless of the outcome - better off out of it - it will be nasty. As well as just when you have an amicable break up from a partner, you say you will be friends, you might even go for a couple of drinks a few times but sooner or later it ends up with one of you screaming in the street and tears and things as promises are broken and general weirdness descends. Alternatively you decide to stick together and make the best of it even though it makes your skin crawl when they just don't get to the end of the sentence 5 minutes after they have already made their point twice!!! And their mother comes round to often. Why make the best of something when striking out on your own will set you free? Vote OUT! It will still be :censored: but possibly less :censored: than to REMAIN. FIFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Does anyone think this whole thing is a massive waste of public money. As Cameron tries to appease people in the Tory party who have been squabbling about Europe for the last 30 years and in some cases people are using this to drive tgeir own personal agendas. Brexit is based on a grievance no plan whatsoever to improve Britain. Brexit is based on a hell of a lot ore than grievance. The fact that there s no plan is down to the government. It's the government which will have to carry out the wishes of the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 In other EU countries they just keep holding referenda until the government gets the result it wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzell54 Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 In other EU countries they just keep holding referenda until the government gets the result it wants. The will not need to do this remain are already plotting to keep the Uk in regardless of the vote, see this link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Brexit is based on a hell of a lot ore than grievance. The fact that there s no plan is down to the government. It's the government which will have to carry out the wishes of the people. Ofcourse it's a grievance it's a protest vote just like those voting for Trump in the US half of the people voting for Brexit haven't got a clue what they are voting for anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Brexit is based on a hell of a lot ore than grievance. The fact that there s no plan is down to the government. It's the government which will have to carry out the wishes of the people. Any plan will be down to whoever gets in at the next General Election won't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglinbland Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) To those in a position to influence anything, it will mean not a jot to be in or out of the EU as the elite are true internationalists - real wealth knows no sovereignty. Fear for the people though - in history, a drift towards isolation and a lessening of accountability towards the international community spells hardship for the masses. Less money and less freedom. Edited June 7, 2016 by piglinbland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Any plan will be down to whoever gets in at the next General Election won't it? No, they should have a plan in place now to implement on June 24th. if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Ofcourse it's a grievance it's a protest vote just like those voting for Trump in the US half of the people voting for Brexit haven't got a clue what they are voting for anyway. It's not a protest vote from me, nor for many other people I have spoken to. I stopped voting in general elections for years, because all the parties were for staying in what is now the EU. UKIP changed all that, and we now have a referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 In other EU countries they just keep holding referenda until the government gets the result it wants. Neverendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzell54 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) 21 pages in and still no exit plan. Regardless of how messed up Europe is today, we're going to need more than sellotape, WD40 and good old British spunk to affront the upheavals of an exit. This is a plan: http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf some 400+ pages. I suggest watch the video. This is the video to go with it: Edited June 8, 2016 by frizzell54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 No, they should have a plan in place now to implement on June 24th. if needed. But they'll have 2 years won't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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