The EU referendum - 23rd June

[leeslover]

"We'll flog our stuff to others"

 

That was the statistical assurance I'd been seeking all along! Now i can sleep sound in the knowledge that we'll be surging ahead in no time.

 

leeslover - if only 6% (???????????) of British companies export to a market place of 500 million people right on our own doorstep, then we deserve to be in recession for eternity - whether we remain in the EU or not.

 

I suggest you all take your x25 magnifying specs off when you look at Britain on a map of the world.

I don't consider it a mark of shame that my local barbers shop doesn't sell to Hungary.

[al_bro]

"We'll flog our stuff to others"

 

That was the statistical assurance I'd been seeking all along! Now i can sleep sound in the knowledge that we'll be surging ahead in no time.

 

leeslover - if only 6% (???????????) of British companies export to a market place of 500 million people right on our own doorstep, then we deserve to be in recession for eternity - whether we remain in the EU or not.

 

I suggest you all take your x25 magnifying specs off when you look at Britain on a map of the world.

If you look at Britain on a map of economies you will find we are the 5th largest, and very significant. Too significant for the EU to ignore as a trading nation.

[jimsleftfoot]

If you look at Britain on a map of economies you will find we are the 5th largest, and very significant. Too significant for the EU to ignore as a trading nation.

I agree, they will give us a deal. But there is a world of difference between the deal we want and the deal we will get. We're sticking two fingers up at them, its not in their interests to see the UK doing well out of a Brexit.

Edited May 18, 2016 by jimsleftfoot

[piglinbland]

I agree, they will give us a deal. But there is a world of difference between the deal we want and the deal we will get. We're sticking two fingers up at them, its not in their interests to see the UK doing well out of a Brexit.

Yes, why make it harder than it already is?

 

As it stands, we're sticking two fingers up at them as we drive our lorries off the ferries unimpeded. Long may it last.

[mcfluff1985]

The EU want to buy the stuff we make and sell us the stuff they make. They're not going to be too arsey about it when these individual countries want the trade

[piglinbland]

So -

 

We don't want to be in the EU because the EU is a corrupt, self-serving and bureaucratic. However, once Britain is on the outside, the EU suddenly becomes a tame, sensible and fair-minded trading partner?

Edited May 18, 2016 by piglinbland

[mikejh45]

Yes, why make it harder than it already is?

 

As it stands, we're sticking two fingers up at them as we drive our lorries off the ferries unimpeded. Long may it last.

Like the tankers of Spanish wine which the French decided to pour into the drains a couple of months ago!!!

[Stevie_J]

 

You really don't get it do you?

 

The chaos in Greece is the fault of the EU and the insane Euro project.

 

That's a skewed view of the Greek debt crisis, most of which was down to insane government spending.

[frizzell54]

 

That's a skewed view of the Greek debt crisis, most of which was down to insane government spending.

 

Not really, the Greeks wanted to benefit from the borrowing power of the euro and they should never have been allowed to join.

There are only two ways forward now - debt forgiveness, go back to the drachma or both. The EU will not allow either and are currently in the process of asset stripping the country.

[leeslover]

That's a skewed view of the Greek debt crisis, most of which was down to insane government spending.

Without being able to devalue they needed capital inflows. Would have been insane private spending if the government didn't do it. This is why they need a political union to make the Euro, "work," they need to move that amount of money around through tax and spending.

[BP1960]

Got my ballot paper today, strange it was delivered with the same post as a Stay In leaflet.

[bigfatjoe1]

first dibs on the Pa

 

 

 

 

Not really, the Greeks wanted to benefit from the borrowing power of the euro and they should never have been allowed to join.

There are only two ways forward now - debt forgiveness, go back to the drachma or both. The EU will not allow either and are currently in the process of asset stripping the country.

 

First dibs on the Parthenon. It'll go well with the Elgin Marbles.

[leeslover]

first dibs on the Pa

 

First dibs on the Parthenon. It'll go well with the Elgin Marbles.

Too late, after going to Athens some years ago I decided to reunite the whole set on Tandle Hill.

[disjointed]

Too late, after going to Athens some years ago I decided to reunite the whole set on Tandle Hill.

Thats what it is. I feel a bit guilty letting my dog piss and :censored: on it now.

[leeslover]

Thats what it is. I feel a bit guilty letting my dog piss and :censored: on it now.

Athens, or Tandle Hill?

[bigfatjoe1]

Athens, or Tandle Hill?

Athens looks like dog :censored:. The most disappointing city I've ever been too. It still looked like the Turks were using it for bombing practice.

The Elgin Marbles were a bit :censored: as well. We'd be better doing a full reconstruction.

[leeslover]

Athens looks like dog :censored:. The most disappointing city I've ever been too. It still looked like the Turks were using it for bombing practice.

The Elgin Marbles were a bit :censored: as well. We'd be better doing a full reconstruction.

My thoughts entirely. I'd have been happy to be dropped to the Acropolis by helicopter and extracted 3 hours later.

[leeslover]

News round up then:

 

A Treasury report compares 2 trade options to the status quo, Canada and Switzerland. They didn't find the time to put the Norway model, with identical trading rights in the EU, through the computer.

 

The Treasury is still sitting on it's own report suggesting % growth from deregulation

 

The government is crediting the EU for cheaper flights, because it invented Easy jet and made oil prices collapse over the past year and a half.

 

A 3% jitter in currency prices will bankrupt families, whereas deliberately devaluing it by 30% over the last 6 years was the Right Thing to Do.

 

The sheer size of the network organising the Remain messages is enough to make you fear for democracy if we accept it this time. The arguments haven't even been allowed to get close to the surface beneath the surface of spin we have paid for.

Edited May 24, 2016 by leeslover

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

News round up then:

 

A Treasury report compares 2 trade options to the status quo, Canada and Switzerland. They didn't find the time to put the Norway model, with identical trading rights in the EU, through the computer.

 

The Treasury is still sitting on it's own report suggesting % growth from deregulation

 

The government is crediting the EU for cheaper flights, because it invented Easy jet and made oil prices collapse over the past year and a half.

 

A 3% jitter in currency prices will bankrupt families, whereas deliberately devaluing it by 30% over the last 6 years was the Right Thing to Do.

 

The sheer size of the network organising the Remain messages is enough to make you fear for democracy if we accept it this time. The arguments haven't even been allowed to get close to the surface beneath the surface of spin we have paid for.

 

I think a lot of people who've contributed to this thread on both sides of the argument have basically been unimpressed by the tone and quality of the public debate. I'm just about in the remain camp - but only because in the absence of a Labour party that people vote for, the EU is one of the few checks on Tory power in this country. (I blame the people who vote Tory more than I blame the Labour party.)

 

But then again, if you've found that the debate is extremely average, what did you expect? Enlightenment? A Socratic dialogue? The political debate in this country generally is fairly shocking. Not sure it's any better anywhere else either.

[leeslover]

 

I think a lot of people who've contributed to this thread on both sides of the argument have basically been unimpressed by the tone and quality of the public debate. I'm just about in the remain camp - but only because in the absence of a Labour party that people vote for, the EU is one of the few checks on Tory power in this country. (I blame the people who vote Tory more than I blame the Labour party.)

 

But then again, if you've found that the debate is extremely average, what did you expect? Enlightenment? A Socratic dialogue? The political debate in this country generally is fairly shocking. Not sure it's any better anywhere else either.

I was thinking earlier today that I now know how the Scots felt when they were that leaving the Union would see them sitting in a damp cave taking heroin, but that was true.

[piglinbland]

 

I think a lot of people who've contributed to this thread on both sides of the argument have basically been unimpressed by the tone and quality of the public debate. I'm just about in the remain camp - but only because in the absence of a Labour party that people vote for, the EU is one of the few checks on Tory power in this country. (I blame the people who vote Tory more than I blame the Labour party.)

 

But then again, if you've found that the debate is extremely average, what did you expect? Enlightenment? A Socratic dialogue? The political debate in this country generally is fairly shocking. Not sure it's any better anywhere else either.

 

 

 

It is strange that there is so much anti-left wing sentiment around at a time when the chances of any utopian, Marxist or other communist fuelled popular landslide happening is virtually zero, yet the extreme right are literally knocking at the gates of several European parliaments, legitimising authoritarianism, nationalism and xenophobia in the process.

 

I'm of the remain camp for the reason you give, also for the preservation of established economic practice - because I believe the 'out' camp severely under-estimate the scale of the task in hand should we leave the EU. But I also seriously fear that we may open a Pandora's box which could spell the beginning of the end for a united Europe. Although I'm dismayed by the neo-liberal path Brussels seems to be taking, I would prefer that route to the scenario of a wave of increasingly extreme popular fronts taking countries out of Europe and onto diverging paths.

 

I was in Paris last week and the following 3 things struck me -

 

- How Parisians of so many different backgrounds manage to live on top of each other and get along in spite of current events and rhetoric.

-The absolute dilemma of French social movement against government at such a critical time.

- How few people there actually know (or care) that we're having a referendum in the UK.

 

Difficult times ahead.

,

[opinions4u]

Weren't French immigrants rioting a few months ago?

[leeslover]

Weren't French immigrants rioting a few months ago?

Paris is about the most segregated capital city going, perhaps apart from Brussels. Hope swathes of Paris are derelict slums which get little government attention beyond riot vans. Not really relevant to the debate like.

[piglinbland]

Paris is about the most segregated capital city going, perhaps apart from Brussels. Hope swathes of Paris are derelict slums which get little government attention beyond riot vans. Not really relevant to the debate like.

 

You do like your hyperbole!

 

The banlieu - particularly the North-east of Paris is rough as :censored:, much like the inner outskirts of cities everywhere. But those who know Paris intimately will tell you it feels far safer than London. Indeed, I'd much rather take my chances in Bobigny late at night than Manchester city centre. As I already said, people get on surprisingly well in Paris given the fact that in general, they're living on top of each other.

 

You're right though, nothing to do with this thread, I was just sharing my thoughts.

Edited May 25, 2016 by piglinbland

[al_bro]

News round up then:

 

A Treasury report compares 2 trade options to the status quo, Canada and Switzerland. They didn't find the time to put the Norway model, with identical trading rights in the EU, through the computer.

 

The Treasury is still sitting on it's own report suggesting % growth from deregulation

 

The government is crediting the EU for cheaper flights, because it invented Easy jet and made oil prices collapse over the past year and a half.

 

A 3% jitter in currency prices will bankrupt families, whereas deliberately devaluing it by 30% over the last 6 years was the Right Thing to Do.

 

The sheer size of the network organising the Remain messages is enough to make you fear for democracy if we accept it this time. The arguments haven't even been allowed to get close to the surface beneath the surface of spin we have paid for.

Agreed, and Cameron knowing all these so called catastrophic effects to the economy, was willing to lead the leave campaign if he didn't get what he wanted when negotiating. None of which affected the economy.

No doubt if he was leading the leave campaign, all the figures coming out now would be in favour of leaving.