underdog Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) I don't know if it would. A quick nosy at few other trusts shows their aim is generally to get a place on the board - so in theory we are there but without voting rights what does it yield? We are in a unique position to have it and have people on board since it's inception, with basic knowledge of the daily workings of our club and could in theory, step in to run it if the owner walks out. Okay we don't know every bill yet and emphasis is on yet, but there are people who's faces are known in the club like Simon B and Diane who have a fair understanding of what is going on and the merry go round that goes around annually too. Simon B works hard to give us a weekly presence in the club and to help out the club too during the week and on match days. It's a fine line of working with the club and representing what the fans think we should be doing. What we would like to yell at the top of our lungs about.....and if we did, the consequences of it to staff, club, possible buyers and us fans too. Sometimes it's best to store that ace until needed. I am a crap chess player/poker player ....and would be bloody useless in the boardroom environment. Is it working this unique position? Don't know if I was a owner with 97% stake, in the early days I welcomed the investment but now, class it (trust) as a thorn in my side. Is the relationship still workable/room to grow? In an ideal world I would hope as it is a business that both parties should work on it....buts it's down to both parties isn't it The trust has learned from previous mistakes and is evolving/ can it evolve into something us fans can identify with to some degree? I hope so. What would help us greatly is strength in numbers, it's a small request but if all ST could activate their trust memberships it might give the Trust/Simon B a bigger bat to swing about, if he is representing all of us in that boardroom. Selfish plug but there will be a membership drive announced soon. It's only a couple of mins on line to complete, or look out for announcements of where to do it on match days. Cheers Edited March 9, 2017 by underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Am I right in assuming OAFC have a written constitution and defined roles for Directors, including an agenda for meetings and the recording of minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Perhaps, but if that scenario occurs then it would highlight problems much more widely than random fans asking questions and being brushed off So its the lesser of 2 evils then? Is that the best that we can hope for? The Trust should be there to represent the fans, fully and unequivocally. This is our club not Simon Corney's. And it's dying. Year by year it's just getting weaker and has less chance of recovery. It's bloody terminal. As a business it is failing and the Board just simply expect us to put up with it's demise. Without Shez we would be down already. Are we expected to be satisfied with finishing 17th or 18th in the 3rd division below Fleetwood Scunthorpe Shrewsbury and bloody Rochdale? Sorry I have had a few pints but what has happened to my club? I never signed up for this utter and absolute hopelessness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The seat on the board would be as much use if you walked away as it is now, a Trust on board gives Corney some sort of credibility and he's happy to milk the Trust when it suits, he knows the Trust don't have a leg to stand on because our positions so weak, an independant Trust would be far more effective were questions could be asked without fear of reprisal. Agree with all of this except the last line. The Trust might be able to ask more searching questions if it didn't have to play nice with the club, but the club would be under no obligation to even pretend to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 It's a difficult one this; both arguments have merit. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that both potential outcomes are fairly impotent. What is the Trust able to achieve now, given that the club clearly limits any real insight into the important stuff, such as finances, knowledge of which was one of the principal arguments for the seat on the Board in the first place? I like the fact that the Trust now talk in terms of Simon B representing the fans as part of his role after Barry very openly abandoned that aspect. But that can only be done to the extent the club is willing to engage. The board meeting "mix-up" said an awful lot about how much the club directors intend to involve the Trust. On the flip side, is a weaker position still to walk away and give up the notional involvement in the club the Trust enjoys today? Would it perhaps allow the Trust to speak more openly about any concerns it has about the way the club is operating? It must be difficult for someone in Simon B's to speak out about something and then sit in the boardroom with a pissed off Corney, Barry et al. As others have said, would the Trust even maintain the appetite to continue, completely separated from the club? This, absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Fair point Crusoe and I accept the club/Corney would be under no obligation to answer but he then wouldn't have the endorsement and security of the Trust on board which he seems to milk now when it suits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The 3% share holding gives the Trust a seat at the table. If the Trust nominated director is not being given the oversight opportunity that his position entitles himself to, the Trust has a right to demand answers. That in itself may tell them much of what they need to know about how the club is being run anyway. Without the seat on the Board, the trust, or any replacement, would be completely toothless? When not being given answers they would be in no position to justify why those answers should be forthcoming. The weakness the Trust has is that it doesn't have the full backing of the fans. I suspect that partially this is because a large proportion of the fan-base don't believe that oversight is required. If the club was in imminent danger (and perceived to be so) I suspect that interest in the club would increase significantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 We've been in imminent danger since the other two pulled out in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 On the flip side, is a weaker position still to walk away and give up the notional involvement in the club the Trust enjoys today? Would it perhaps allow the Trust to speak more openly about any concerns it has about the way the club is operating? It must be difficult for someone in Simon B's to speak out about something and then sit in the boardroom with a pissed off Corney, Barry et al. As others have said, would the Trust even maintain the appetite to continue, completely separated from the club? If the Trust has no effective input at boardroom level, and some allege is being estranged from any decison-making process, what is stopping it from speaking openly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 If the Trust has no effective input at boardroom level, and some allege is being estranged from any decison-making process, what is stopping it from speaking openly? I was just thinking the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_ktf Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 If the Trust has no effective input at boardroom level, and some allege is being estranged from any decison-making process, what is stopping it from speaking openly? The very faint hope it may be included at some point? If they speak out, they burn any remaining (however tiny) goodwill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 If the Trust has no effective input at boardroom level, and some allege is being estranged from any decison-making process, what is stopping it from speaking openly? If the meeting is over because the trust rep was not informed of the correct time he can't speak about something he wasn't aware of. The meeting discussion should be in the minutes I'd have thought - if the club actually keep any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I think that the current situation is a symptom of how weak a deal was struck at the time. Granted it could have been nothing, as the owners had deep pockets at the time and could have claimed the Trust money or just done nothing. Of course, that Trust money now would yield a lot better deal/clout It's clear that the Trust is bypasssed as indicated in this thread, but that bridges should not be burned. It is better to be on the inside trying to effect change. I suggested the naming of the stand with a Walsall style sign but simply got a like off Simon B, so from the other side of the coin I think there is lack of engagement of the fans too. I think the best course of action is not not rock the boat too much at Boardroom level, as Simon is being ignored anyway with the hope that the odd suggestion gets listened to, and focus on building up membership, Committee member recruitment to share the load engagement, fan engagement in terms of revenue and trasnparent elections etc and good governance, and fundraising to build a war chest. Once there are significant funds, the Trust will be listened to and courted and be in amore stronger position. The danger of not realising what you had once you don't have it is very palpable in this istuation. The loans are of the order of 1/4 to 1/3 of million and with that sort of money, the Trust could offfer a loan at a lower rate of interest that dodgy Scouse Co, and get interest themselves, whilst having the seat and clout Am I right I saw the Trust has about £100k? THat is a solid base. That is specific to maximise benefit out of our situation, not standard expected from I had a look at the trust site, there are more match reports than anything else, that is not what I expect most want from the Trust. I support the Trust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 If the meeting is over because the trust rep was not informed of the correct time he can't speak about something he wasn't aware of. The meeting discussion should be in the minutes I'd have thought - if the club actually keep any. The trouble is they are a private company and not obliged to publish any minutes though, whether declared constitution or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Dear all Thanks for the feedback/debate, it is appreciated and is taken on board. On a personal note, it gives me a boost for me to continue on if I have a sense that the tightrope we are on/no mans land really is at least understood. I am at work at the moment, but there will be announcement with regards to our Membership drive in March. This is at home games and a presence in most if not all stands pre and post match Your activation of your membership/strength in numbers, will also give Simon Brooke a boost that is needed to say "I have the support of XXXX of ST holders". So please if you can either go on line to activate or come over and meet your Trust team starting tomorrow pre and Half time to do it. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) Underdog If Simon B's role at the club on matchday has been reduced, perhaps it would be a good idea for him to make himself available to fans before the game for a chat. This could be in conjunction with increasing membership (this might already be what you are planning). 2.30-3.00 each game, moving to different stands for different matches. At least it would get his face known amongst the fan-base. Edited March 10, 2017 by Latics and England Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 On the flip side, what are the benefits as things stand now? Would be interesting to hear. A little bit more accountability than SC would have without a Trust Rep watching and listening... Simon Brooke and Barry before him (yeah I know) both building up knowledge and experience of the ins and outs of running a football club - which will come in handy if it ever goes properly tits up. Which is about all that has ever been (and ever could be) promised isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 I don't know if it would. A quick nosy at few other trusts shows their aim is generally to get a place on the board - so in theory we are there but without voting rights what does it yield? How much would it cost to buy a larger slice of the ownership and with it some actual clout though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Your activation of your membership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 A little bit more accountability than SC would have without a Trust Rep watching and listening... Simon Brooke and Barry before him (yeah I know) both building up knowledge and experience of the ins and outs of running a football club - which will come in handy if it ever goes properly tits up. Which is about all that has ever been (and ever could be) promised isn't it? You think Barry will be handy if it goes tits up...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Reading through all of this makes the Trust members involved with the club seem a bit like a team of UN weapons inspectors being given the run around in some rogue state.... "Barry - it's Simon C. Hide those "xxxxxx"'s Simon Brooke's just parking up".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 How much would it cost to buy a larger slice of the ownership and with it some actual clout though? Because of the loans, I;d say £300k would really have a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) Reading through all of this makes the Trust members involved with the club seem a bit like a team of UN weapons inspectors being given the run around in some rogue state.... "Barry - it's Simon C. Hide those "xxxxxx"'s Simon Brooke's just parking up".... Can't happen, they've taken his parking spot away too....... ;-) Edited March 10, 2017 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 How much would it cost to buy a larger slice of the ownership and with it some actual clout though? Was just referring to the scoreboard in this instance given it is supposed to be owned(?) by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 You think Barry will be handy if it goes tits up...? It's no secret that I am one of Barry's big critics but he built up a lot of knowledge and contacts while he was on the Trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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