General Election - 8th June 2017

[mcfluff1985]

400 back from fighting with ISIS. Only 1 under a control order where I believe they can take their passport.

 

Why? Firstly you shouldn't be allowed back in the country in my opinion.

 

If you are letting these cunts back in they shouldn't have a passport they should be in prison.

[kowenicki]

5 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

400 back from fighting with ISIS. Only 1 under a control order where I believe they can take their passport.

 

Why? Firstly you shouldn't be allowed back in the country in my opinion.

 

If you are letting these cunts back in they shouldn't have a passport they should be in prison.

 

Corbyn was against the British government banning people returning from Syria when they had been out there to collude or mix with ISIS. He though it was a bizarre decision to try and ban their return. 

 

This is public record in various places including an interview on Bahrain TV. 

 

He he was also against shoot to kill.

 

Now he's gone full John Wayne all of a sudden.  He's a liar. 

[mcfluff1985]

1 minute ago, kowenicki said:

 

Corbyn was against the British government banning people returning from Syria when they had been out there to collude or mix with ISIS. He though it was a bizarre decision to try and ban their return. 

 

This is public record in various places including an interview on Bahrain TV. 

 

He he was also against shoot to kill.

 

Now he's gone full John Wayne all of a sudden.  He's a liar. 

Ye he is but why the fuck are we just letting these back in currently? It's ridiculous

[kowenicki]

11 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

Ye he is but why the fuck are we just letting these back in currently? It's ridiculous

 

Because parliament is full of wets. 

 

Blame the liberal elite. That's the political and the legal classes to you.  Bubble residing pillocks. 

[kowenicki]

Oh look, Diane Abbott pulls out of two interviews today due to 'illness'.  Chronic stupidity? 

[GlossopLatic]

3 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

Oh look, Diane Abbott pulls out of two interviews today due to 'illness'.  Chronic stupidity? 

 

Even if Labour win the election she isn't going to become home secretary. She's become a liability to them surely she will be sent to the back benches.

[Matt]

35 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

Corbyn was against the British government banning people returning from Syria when they had been out there to collude or mix with ISIS. He though it was a bizarre decision to try and ban their return. 

 

Not quite - I think the context in which he said it was highlighting the complexity of the Syrian conflict, British people are fighting alongside the Free Syrian Army and Rojava who are terrorists to Assad and Putin, yet they fight Daesh.

[leeslover]

35 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

 

Because parliament is full of wets. 

 

Blame the liberal elite. That's the political and the legal classes to you.  Bubble residing pillocks. 

I just picked this quote at random, but I've noticed a lot of people who opposed Brexit, Scottish independence, Trump etc realising that calling their opponents stupid didn't make them change their minds. Have a think about that?

[GlossopLatic]

53 minutes ago, leeslover said:

I just picked this quote at random, but I've noticed a lot of people who opposed Brexit, Scottish independence, Trump etc realising that calling their opponents stupid didn't make them change their minds. Have a think about that?

 

I'm still abit confused by this term liberal elite. I do find it strange that the likes of Farage Johnson and May who all had public school education are pointing the finger at the liberal elite and speaking as if they are some kind of working class heroes from council estates it smacks of hypocrisy.

Edited June 6, 2017 by GlossopLatic

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

If you want a round-up while avoiding radicalisation...you have to do it quietly, as in don't announce it and don't shout too much about the wrong 'uns when you throw away the key. 

 

I'm out of my depth as usual. I just reckon a certain amount of controversial policy is a price worth paying now that un-networked randomers are going on the rampage. 

 

It's not Guantanamo until someone goes outside a judicial process, which I definitely don't advocate.

 

My idea with the missus - the one she really didn't appreciate - was to use association, however loose, as a pretext for arrest. Person A has met person B, who has met person C, who was a terrorist. Person A gets nicked. All the way through from A to Z. 

[Matt]

7 hours ago, 24hoursfromtulsehill said:

My idea with the missus - the one she really didn't appreciate - was to use association, however loose, as a pretext for arrest. Person A has met person B, who has met person C, who was a terrorist. Person A gets nicked. All the way through from A to Z. 

 

I'm thinking that if we hole up innocent people in with known targets it'll create more of a problem, and there have been innocent people (maybe that's a stretch - let's say, people who are less of a threat, like the cook) locked up that have later been released. Whilst incarcerated they've been exposed to some of the most evil people on the planet.

 

With the 'Kevin Bacon' policy of monitoring and arrest you suggest, the above issue would undoubtedly happen.

 

The alternative at the moment is a massive amount of resource is used to monitor our existing threats, deport the high level threat, stop more threats coming back into the country, and pull the online big players into line - make it difficult to access their material. It's impossible to shut down everything, but start at the top with Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, and work our way down. Reduce the exposure. EDIT: ...and that goes for everything not only al Muhajiroun and so-on, it means Stormfront, Column 88, C18. Blood and Honour etc.

[mcfluff1985]

Facebook pages are monitored and reported when they mention they words Sky, BT and Kodi they can be pulled down. Yet we haven't found a way to remove Jihad stuff efficiently. Hmmm

 

Segregating the prisons would be a good idea. That would help stop vulnerable people being converted to a very extreme version of Islam inside.

 

Terrorism offences should carry a mandatory life sentence, again away from general prison pop. 

 

Any Mosque found to be distributing any terrorist related material should be shut down. Didsbury Mosque was brought up on QT as having such material available. Mosque claim they knew nothing about it. Hmmm

 

Etc etc 

[Matt]

12 hours ago, HarryBosch said:

Then again, you lot still seem to be continuing to give them a free pass on all that.....

 

Nicely edited - 'You lot'? Please expand, I'm dying to find something out about me that even I don't know about.

[kowenicki]

10 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

I'm still abit confused by this term liberal elite. I do find it strange that the likes of Farage Johnson and May who all had public school education are pointing the finger at the liberal elite and speaking as if they are some kind of working class heroes from council estates it smacks of hypocrisy.

 

You don't think that many labour MP's had the same upbringing and opportunities as Tory MP's ?? Really? 

 

I think the obvious example of liberal elite in the Labour Party right now is Thornberry. Corbyn himself was a long way from a tough working class upbringing.  Thornberry is classic liberal elite, she suffers from cognitive dissonance in that she vicerally hates the people she pretends to save with her false consciousness. 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by kowenicki

[Matt]

9 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

 

You don't think that many labour NP's had the same upbringing and opportunities as Tory MP's ?? Really? 

 

I think the obvious example of liberal elite in the Labour Party right now is Thornberry. Corbyn himself was a long way from a tough working class upbringing.  Thornberry is classic liberal elite, she suffers from cognitive dissonance in that she vicerally hates the people she pretends to save with her false consciousness. 

 

 

 

I think he's getting at the fact you've previously alluded to the fact that you view top politicians with equal disdain in their incompetence, however you only discredit the liberal elite - not the political elite as a whole. I think we all agree that at the sharp end of politics, the MP's that come from collieries in Derbyshire are thin on the ground - they're more LSE these days.

[HarryBosch]

10 hours ago, 24hoursfromtulsehill said:

If you want a round-up while avoiding radicalisation...you have to do it quietly, as in don't announce it and don't shout too much about the wrong 'uns when you throw away the key. 

 

I'm out of my depth as usual. I just reckon a certain amount of controversial policy is a price worth paying now that un-networked randomers are going on the rampage. 

 

It's not Guantanamo until someone goes outside a judicial process, which I definitely don't advocate.

 

My idea with the missus - the one she really didn't appreciate - was to use association, however loose, as a pretext for arrest. Person A has met person B, who has met person C, who was a terrorist. Person A gets nicked. All the way through from A to Z. 

 

I think we've been taking a few out when they're murdering & raping overseas for a while now and I'd hope that'll be stepped up. 

 

A few years of being banged up for so much as looking at Jihadist material will cut a lot of this off at its roots. It won't stop it altogether but it's one of several strategies that must surely be tried. 

 

[HarryBosch]

1 hour ago, rummytheowl said:

 

Nicely edited - 'You lot'? Please expand, I'm dying to find something out about me that even I don't know about.

 

Lefties

[kowenicki]

28 minutes ago, rummytheowl said:

 

I think he's getting at the fact you've previously alluded to the fact that you view top politicians with equal disdain in their incompetence, however you only discredit the liberal elite - not the political elite as a whole. I think we all agree that at the sharp end of politics, the MP's that come from collieries in Derbyshire are thin on the ground - they're more LSE these days.

 

But I did say the political and legal classes.  I should have clarified slightly though because it followed the liberal elite comment. 

[GlossopLatic]

29 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

 

You don't think that many labour MP's had the same upbringing and opportunities as Tory MP's ?? Really? 

 

That question would have some relevance if it was the one I asked. I'm wondering why those people along with millionaire journalists in the mail and the sun attack an elite they are effectively part of. The elite aren't just those on the left.

 

[Matt]

19 minutes ago, HarryBosch said:

 

Lefties

 

Nice. Well, I'm not as left as you think I am - there are some great policies on all sides. It's a real shame that the main driving force in political debate these days is slander and other malicious statements. I think Parliament has forgotten what Westminster is for.

[HarryBosch]

12 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

That question would have some relevance if it was the one I asked. I'm wondering why those people along with millionaire journalists in the mail and the sun attack an elite they are effectively part of. The elite aren't just those on the left.

 

 

Why can't somebody criticise a group they're part of? 

 

I've never bought into this idea that Labour politicians can't own Tuscan villa's either...... 

[HarryBosch]

1 minute ago, rummytheowl said:

 

Nice. Well, I'm not as left as you think I am - there are some great policies on all sides. It's a real shame that the main driving force in political debate these days is slander and other malicious statements. I think Parliament has forgotten what Westminster is for.

 

Yeah, it baffles me that Left and Right wing politics still exists in 2017. Anyone not rabidly on one side or another now pretty much knows what makes for as stable a country as possible and what will & won't work with regards to paying for it. 

 

The majority of the electorate won't let go of 60 year old outdated prejudices though. And that's how the two main parties like it. 

[kowenicki]

Diane Abbott "temporarily steps aside from the role of shadow HS for the duration of her illness.... but she will be available on polling day in her constituency to help get voters out" 

 

Cynical lie to avoid the media. Absolute disgrace.

[View Of Golden Gate]

25 minutes ago, HarryBosch said:

 

I think we've been taking a few out when they're murdering & raping overseas for a while now and I'd hope that'll be stepped up. 

 

A few years of being banged up for so much as looking at Jihadist material will cut a lot of this off at its roots. It won't stop it altogether but it's one of several strategies that must surely be tried. 

 

 

Wait, what? So lets say a preacher of any faith notices that one of their 'flock' has started to say the odd extremist thing, they report them to the police but know nothing will be done as they are not a threat. Instead they decide to look at the kind of thing this radicalised individual is looking at, in order to get a better understanding, and combat this person's views. You know in the same way people look at alternative view points so they can learn and understand each better, do you lock them up, just in case?

 

Or the investigative journalist?

 

The off duty police officer?

 

The teacher worried about a student? Father or mother worried about their child? Someone shown it without knowing what it is?

 

Also what counts, just the stuff encouraging to kill? Or the publications calling for Muslim rule? How about stuff that questions the government? Once a rule like that comes in, it becomes very easy to stretch to include other things to. We already have a current government that love a good cover up, see the amount of Freedom of Information Requests rejected, the intended legislation to regulate the press, the intended law that would allow the government to read our email and texts, the cover up on the report of funding towards Terrorist organisations.

 

You would give them power to lock up people who want to help battle extremists? Yes you will catch out many who are fully paid up members of ISIS and others, but what about those caught in the legal crossfire? What about Nationalist extremism will that be included too, or is only Muslim organisations. 

 

What would be a better idea is stop giving these people the celebrity status they crave, make it illegal to watch them will only encourage others to go out and find it. Giving them a cult status, how about we stop publishing their name, and pictures of them everywhere? We make them heroes, that is what they want. If you have any doubts of this watch the documentary Jihadi Next Door, see the looks on their faces when people ask for photos. 

 

A law like this does not combat it, it makes them outlaws fighting a system that intends to crush their freedom of speech and Islam. And also potentially sees young people trying to find themselves drawn to it already, thrown in a cell and forever known as a terrorist. 

 

I do not know what the answer is, but look throughout modern history banning things only serves to create intrigue and helps to increase an audience. That is all this law would do, it make them cult icons, make them the faces and voices for Islamic Free Speech, not the hatemongers they are. 

[Magic Mikey]

5 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

Diane Abbott "temporarily steps aside from the role of shadow HS for the duration of her illness.... but she will be available on polling day in her constituency to help get voters out" 

 

Cynical lie to avoid the media. Absolute disgrace.

Not as disgraceful as the Prime Minister not having the bottle to take part in a televised debate.