Norwood

[Roger Ritchie]

Dan Gardner is the the type of player that Norwood needs to play with. We need a midfielder who is going to move the ball forward. Imagine Harry Vaughan would have worked well with Norwood. 

 

[PeteG]

1 minute ago, Roger Ritchie said:

Dan Gardner is the the type of player that Norwood needs to play with. We need a midfielder who is going to move the ball forward. Imagine Harry Vaughan would have worked well with Norwood. 

 

Think we need to move on from Gardner tbh. I didn't particularly rate him first time around albeit that was in League 1 and in his prime he could run a game at this level. However, he's not in his prime, he's never really recovered from the injury in the final home game of the season when we were relegated from league 1 and that is what nearly 5 years ago? How many games has he played in the last 5 years? Great, if we can get a dozen decent games out of him between now and the end of the season but we can't rely on him or pin our hopes on him and i'm certain Mellon won't be doing. I'd see any involvement from Gardner this season as a bonus and i'd be showing him the door in May. 

[League one forever]

13 minutes ago, Wardie said:

Do we actually know Latics offered more money? As a striker of his age maybe he thought a drop down would benefit his game to goals ratio and be less punishing on his body. A good way to play out a career.

Yeah, the Barnsley chairman did interview after he left because the fans weren’t happy, he said we offered a deal that most league one strikers aren’t on, and more than he could offer. (Or wanted to maybe given his age in that league) 

[League one forever]

19 minutes ago, Wardie said:

Do we actually know Latics offered more money? As a striker of his age maybe he thought a drop down would benefit his game to goals ratio and be less punishing on his body. A good way to play out a career.

https://www.barnsleychronicle.com/article/25999/barnsley-fc-board-on-various-issues

 

 

Found it. 

[Wardie]

3 minutes ago, League one forever said:

https://www.barnsleychronicle.com/article/25999/barnsley-fc-board-on-various-issues

 

Found it. 

Thanks for that. Could be that Norwood's seeming frustration is part of the pressure he may be feeling to perform and score as the fans expect him to. I'd rather he be animated about it than blasé.

[League one forever]

15 minutes ago, PeteG said:

Barnsley Chairman told the fans at a forum that we made an offer they couldn't match. I'm sure they could have matched it but it was more a case of not choosing to match it whether that was in terms of money per month or length of contract nobody knows. I'm sure at his age, he probably looked at a contract over 3 years as security and I think when you take into account the length of contract we were offering more. I do think the wage has been exaggerated somewhat, I'm led to believe it's in the region of £4k - £5k per week with a hefty bonus if we get promoted. Worth every penny if he does get the goals to get us up.

Yep. I’ve no problem with him taking the money, good luck to him. But as our highest earner and best player I just want him to lead by example more often. He does it sometimes, but I want it every game from him. 
 

Be our talisman. 

[League one forever]

3 minutes ago, Wardie said:

Thanks for that. Could be that Norwood's seeming frustration is part of the pressure he may be feeling to perform and score as the fans expect him to. I'd rather he be animated about it than blasé.

No probs. 
 

Yeah, he gets frustrated with himself as well to be fair. Which shows he cares. It’s a fine line between that being being healthy competitiveness and being destructive. 

[PeteG]

6 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Yep. I’ve no problem with him taking the money, good luck to him. But as our highest earner and best player I just want him to lead by example more often. He does it sometimes, but I want it every game from him. 
 

Be our talisman. 

I really don't think it's a case of him "just taking the money." I genuinely think he cares, he looks like a winner to me and is frustrated. Even the best players in the world can't do it on their own week in week out, look at Ronaldo in his 2nd spell at United, he looked frustrated, throwing his arms up in the air. I've seen plenty from Norwood to suggest he's prepared to put in the hard yards. A Tranmere fan even tweeted after his goal on Saturday that if it was any consolation he didn't really celebrate much for them and seemed moody. It's probably just his personality. I'm happy to judge him on his performances alone and as i've said numerous times, he's our best player by a mile. He actually stands out as being way above everyone else in the team with his movement and speed of thought. Actually reminds me of Ritchie to some extent when he first signed for us, was a class above the rest of the team.

[BerlinBlue]

Norwood is not the issue. He looks frustrated. Probably due to the fact the midfielders stay closer to our defenders than him and are scared to cross half way. 

[PeteG]

Think we all need to stop worrying about Norwood, he's not the problem. The problem for Mellon is getting a midfield/formation out of the players we currently have or bring in the players that will help to elevate Norwoods performances on a weekly basis. If we had more goals coming from other areas on a regular basis the opposition would have more to worry about than just Norwood. I'd still wager he will get 20 goals minimum this season. 

[JoeP]

7 hours ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

Took the captains armband when Hogan was sent off too. It wouldn't surprise me if he finishes the season as captain.

 

You can tell he's used to a much higher level than this just by his movement alone. Not a problem with his attitude. He's a winner, and doesn't settle for mediocrity. It's interpreted as sulking but I'd have that any day of the week rather than players who really don't give a fuck. And there's much more than them than Norwood.

 

The thing is - I'm not sure he gives a fuck about the team or just himself.  I empathise with his lack of service, but that's hopefully something Mellon can sort.

 

I don't think I know enough about the game to assess whether his movement is any good or not, but if it's so good his less-talented team-mates can't read it, it's a waste of time.

 

I've also seen him fall over the ball twice in recent games.  I remember laughing at Dylan Fage for doing that..

[PeteG]

15 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

The thing is - I'm not sure he gives a fuck about the team or just himself.  I empathise with his lack of service, but that's hopefully something Mellon can sort.

 

I don't think I know enough about the game to assess whether his movement is any good or not, but if it's so good his less-talented team-mates can't read it, it's a waste of time.

 

I've also seen him fall over the ball twice in recent games.  I remember laughing at Dylan Fage for doing that..

He's a striker who scores goals, that's all he's interested in. Look up many interviews with the likes of Ian Wright, Alan Shearer and Gary Lineker, they will tell you that they were only interested in scoring goals. Gary Lineker said recently that if they had a good win and he hadn't scored he would pretend he was happy but he wasn't really. Goalscorers by their very nature are selfish and I suspect Norwood is no different. I want a striker in our team like that, who kicks off if doesn't get the ball or any chances in the game. I'll be worried if we start providing chances and he isn't scoring but i suspect that won't happen. I reckon if he was in Chesterfields side this season he'd already be nearing 20 goals and that's no exaggeration.

[PeteG]

As for his attitude, it's refreshing to see. For far too long we've had players who were prepared to accept being shit. We need another 4 or 5 players with Norwoods attitude. You think the teams that win promotion and trophies don't have players kicking off with each other on as regular basis because they are winners? Think Roy Keane, Viera etc. Was it Andy Cole and Teddy Sheringham who wouldn't even speak to each other off the pitch? I'm not arsed about them all being pals, i'm arsed about them them winning. I remember Andy Goram coming to blows with Glen Keeley on the coach after what i think was 3-0 defeat away at the beginning of the 87-88 season. Goram was a winner and couldn't accept how shit Keeley was. Nothing wrong with it imo.

[oafc1955]

4 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

The thing is - I'm not sure he gives a fuck about the team or just himself.  I empathise with his lack of service, but that's hopefully something Mellon can sort.

 

I don't think I know enough about the game to assess whether his movement is any good or not, but if it's so good his less-talented team-mates can't read it, it's a waste of time.

 

I've also seen him fall over the ball twice in recent games.  I remember laughing at Dylan Fage for doing that..

I don’t care as long as he gets the chances to put the ball in the onion bag. If you watch him he’s always making runs, anticipating where the ball should be going but sadly it hardly ever does!!

The Hope header for his goal at Rochdale is a classic example where if he hadn’t made the initial run would have been nowhere near it and it would have ended up in the arms of the keeper.

You’re lucky if the likes of Hogan, Shelton or Sheron actually look up before hoofing it forward. Green’s crosses are either way too long or don’t get past the first defender and you’d do well to get any kind of cross at all from Tollitt!

We’ve finally got the striker we’ve craved for but unfortunately we haven’t got a system or the players with the ability needed to be able to take advantage.

Hopefully that will change over the coming weeks!

[PeteG]

5 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

I don’t care as long as he gets the chances to put the ball in the onion bag. If you watch him he’s always making runs, anticipating where the ball should be going but sadly it hardly ever does!!

The Hope header for his goal at Rochdale is a classic example where if he hadn’t made the initial run would have been nowhere near it and it would have ended up in the arms of the keeper.

You’re lucky if the likes of Hogan, Shelton or Sheron actually look up before hoofing it forward. Green’s crosses are either way too long or don’t get past the first defender and you’d do well to get any kind of cross at all from Tollitt!

We’ve finally got the striker we’ve craved for but unfortunately we haven’t got a system or the players with the ability needed to be able to take advantage.

Hopefully that will change over the coming weeks!

Spot on this! Nobody else in our squad would have scored that goal at Rochdale, in fact they wouldn't have even got to the ball let alone finish it. It wasn't even really a half chance given the flick on was to nobody really but Norwood turned it into a goal. It got us 3pts. It's what you pay decent money for. The only other player I can remember us having in the past 10 years or so who was a selfish goalscorer was Mcaleny. He was selfish, shot pretty much every time he got the ball and a moody ***er too. He scored 21 goals, i'll take it all day long.

[JoeP]

14 minutes ago, PeteG said:

As for his attitude, it's refreshing to see. For far too long we've had players who were prepared to accept being shit. We need another 4 or 5 players with Norwoods attitude. You think the teams that win promotion and trophies don't have players kicking off with each other on as regular basis because they are winners? Think Roy Keane, Viera etc. Was it Andy Cole and Teddy Sheringham who wouldn't even speak to each other off the pitch? I'm not arsed about them all being pals, i'm arsed about them them winning. I remember Andy Goram coming to blows with Glen Keeley on the coach after what i think was 3-0 defeat away at the beginning of the 87-88 season. Goram was a winner and couldn't accept how shit Keeley was. Nothing wrong with it imo.

 

Has he got the right attitude?

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here a bit and it's hard to tell really, but I sort of get the impression he thinks he's made a mistake coming here.  I think he thought he'd have players around him that can supply him like he's been supplied at his former clubs (as we are the division's big fish..) and it'd be less taxing at his time of career, because it's a lower level.  And it hasn't worked out like that.

 

Anger can be a positive energy.  But I don't think stroppiness can.

[PeteG]

14 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

Has he got the right attitude?

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here a bit and it's hard to tell really, but I sort of get the impression he thinks he's made a mistake coming here.  I think he thought he'd have players around him that can supply him like he's been supplied at his former clubs (as we are the division's big fish..) and it'd be less taxing at his time of career, because it's a lower level.  And it hasn't worked out like that.

 

Anger can be a positive energy.  But I don't think stroppiness can.

If he wasn't performing, I'd agree with the fact his attitude isn't great. The thing is, I believe he is putting in performances and the effort given the obvious lack of service. I'm happy with what he is doing although I do believe we can get more out of him if we improve the supply line but that's not his fault. I keep saying it and I sound like a broken record but if we give him the chances he will score a bagful of goals at this level. He's got 5 i think already and i'd have expected him to be on about 10 by now but I did think we'd have been better than we have been thus far. I'm confident if he stays fit he will hit 20 goals this season. You can all bookmark this and come back to me in May if he hasn't. I repeat what I said earlier, he'd be near 20 now if was playing for Chesterfield.

Edited October 26, 2023 by PeteG
Edit

[League one forever]

7 minutes ago, PeteG said:

If he wasn't performing, I'd agree with the fact his attitude isn't great. The thing is, I believe he is putting in performances

He fluctuates in my view, between being the best player on the pitch to totally disinterested- (which isn’t about ability)

 

On his performances- Is 6 goals a fair return for somebody of his undoubted ability, and status? For perspective - Dicky has four from the non existent midfield. 
 

 

[PeteG]

4 minutes ago, League one forever said:

He fluctuates in my view, between being the best player on the pitch to totally disinterested- (which isn’t about ability)

 

On his performances- Is 6 goals a fair return for somebody of his undoubted ability, and status? For perspective - Dicky has four from the non existent midfield. 
 

 

No I agree, I've said I thought he would be on about 10 plus by now. However, I did think as a team we'd have been much better than we have. How many decent chances has he missed? I can only really think of the one at Chesterfield but i'm sure he's probably missed another couple. When he gets a chance I think goal, we just need to find a way of getting him more chances. I've never really watched him and thought he's not interested. Look at the 3rd goal from Tuesday, Norwood comes short to get a ball into feet from Shelton, who does a 360 degree turn, mis controls it and then falls over resulting in their lad firing a great shot into the top corner. Norwood looks proper pissed off despite it being the 90th minute already 2 down with 10 men. The game was over but he was still pissed off, that's not a player who is disinterested or can't be arsed.

[oafc1955]

33 minutes ago, JoeP said:

I'm playing devil's advocate here a bit and it's hard to tell really, but I sort of get the impression he thinks he's made a mistake coming here. 

He has made a mistake, absolutely, so far anyway, Unsworth has obviously sold him a load of bollocks.

His “let’s go win the league” comment on signing gives credence to that too.

 

Now I know the money would have been the motivating factor but I’m sure he would have also wanted to end his career on a high.

 

I just hope we can utilise his scoring talents to better effect because to date, his signing has been a complete waste of money!!

[mcfluff1985]

8 hours ago, PeteG said:

Putting it in very simple terms, Norwood is the best player in the squad by a country mile. He's the only one who I feel could comfortably play in League 2 or 1. We need to build a team around him and get the best out of his strengths and I'm sure Mellon will be looking to do that. If we somehow made the play-offs and got promoted this team is nowhere near good enough to stay up in League 2, it would need a complete overhaul, the exception being Norwood. How many other players would you feel comfortable keeping to play at a higher level? Hobson on potential, possibly Kitching could do a job but that's about it. Norwood is the 1st name on the team sheet for me, anyone who thinks differently doesn't really know much about football.

Nobody is building a team round a 33 year old

[JoeP]

7 minutes ago, PeteG said:

No I agree, I've said I thought he would be on about 10 plus by now. However, I did think as a team we'd have been much better than we have. How many decent chances has he missed? I can only really think of the one at Chesterfield but i'm sure he's probably missed another couple. When he gets a chance I think goal, we just need to find a way of getting him more chances. I've never really watched him and thought he's not interested. Look at the 3rd goal from Tuesday, Norwood comes short to get a ball into feet from Shelton, who does a 360 degree turn, mis controls it and then falls over resulting in their lad firing a great shot into the top corner. Norwood looks proper pissed off despite it being the 90th minute already 2 down with 10 men. The game was over but he was still pissed off, that's not a player who is disinterested or can't be arsed.

 

I think broadly we're all in agreement.

 

He would score more if he had more chances, he hasn't missed many (although one of the chances he has missed was against Oxford when he fell over the ball in front of goal..) and he probably would have scored 20 goals for Chesterfield by now.

 

I think @League one forever has generally covered it in his previous posts.  Great player to have when things are going well, but the tantrum you've described about the last minute goal on Tuesday just smacks of thinking "you're all shit" rather than an eagerness to win, which isn't helpful.

 

He might have to adapt his game to our level and be happy about it.  Has he got that in him?

 

 

[PeteG]

Just now, mcfluff1985 said:

Nobody is building a team round a 33 year old

We should be doing, he's got at least 2 good years left in him at this level. I'm happy to build a side around him for the next 2 years if it means he gets us back in the football league. From League 1 down to the National League it's difficult to build a team around anyone regardless of age because if they are above that level it's likely they will get bought. That's not the case with Norwood, he's dropped down to get the club back up. Simple, build the team around him!

[oafc1955]

Just now, mcfluff1985 said:

Nobody is building a team round a 33 year old

Nobody is building a team at all so far!!

[PeteG]

2 minutes ago, JoeP said:

 

I think broadly we're all in agreement.

 

He would score more if he had more chances, he hasn't missed many (although one of the chances he has missed was against Oxford when he fell over the ball in front of goal..) and he probably would have scored 20 goals for Chesterfield by now.

 

I think @League one forever has generally covered it in his previous posts.  Great player to have when things are going well, but the tantrum you've described about the last minute goal on Tuesday just smacks of thinking "you're all shit" rather than an eagerness to win, which isn't helpful.

 

He might have to adapt his game to our level and be happy about it.  Has he got that in him?

 

 

He doesn't need to adapt his game to our level, he's proved he does it at this level. I'm happy if he thinking you're all shit and i'm even happier if he's telling them that. They need to hear it and then prove him wrong.