Days gone by v now

[League one forever]

This is mainly to pick the Brains of our older members. 

 

We currently play in the third division, on a bog. We’re skint, and heady days seem a long way away. 

 

In the good old days, (I’m talking in the 60s/70s, earlier if your old enough! ?) Did you have more hope? Enjoy your football more? Did the standard seem better?  Or is it much of a muchness with now? 

[Smiler13]

Well the pitch in 1961 was iced over for many weeks and the club brought in a road tarmac laying machine with burners to thaw the surface. The problem that caused was a pitch with no grass and it was like a sand pit to play on but I remember before the ground got too hard that we played in the snow. Won 11-0 against Southport on a Boxing Day. Balls where heavier in those days being leather loaded with dubbin to keep the water out. Tackles where firmer and the obstruction rule was enforced. Today’s players would not have coped with a heavy ball and tackles flying in from all angles. The 5ft 3 genius Bobby Johnstone was a great comedian and I’ve not seen a player like him since at Boundary Park. He could bend a heavy ball into he top corner of the onion bag from free kicks with little effort. He could put his foot on the ball and stop play goading a player to take the ball off him but he had a trick of sliding the ball back and flicking it over the player in front of him with the back of his heal and he would be round that player in a flash. We don’t get comedians anymore in football who can control a game like he could. Crowds came from all over the place to watch him and we averaged 17000 a week at home games. When I look at Jack Byrne  and the way he dribbles around a player he reminds me of Bobby J but he needs to improve a lot before he gets any where near his standard. Of course Johnstone used to say that he needed at least 5 large whisky’s before he could play. Jack Rowley new he had a big drink problem but Bobby never let us down in the pitch. A truly great player.

 

The standard of play in those days was I think more exciting because we had two great wingers that cut in and scored lots of goals. Players like Bert Lister and Jimmy Frizzell threw themselves at balls in the box and the standard of heading was far better than today and that was with a ball that weighed a ton compared to the plastic rubbish of today. Alas heading a ball like that I am sure reduced the life span of many football players of that eara because lots of ex players are now suffering from Alzheimer’s and dementia. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Smiler13

[stevesidg]

I started watching Latics as a 5 year old in the late 60’s and my clearest memories from then are some night matches in the Lancashire senior cup against the likes of City, United and Liverpool’s A teams

 

From 70-71 to 73-74 my memories are clearer and 70-71 was a great season, getting promoted from Division 4, with Jim Fryatt and possibly David Shaw scoring many goals and exciting, attacking football, with us also winning the Ford Sporting League, most of the monthly prizes and £70,000 which led to the Ford Stand being built

 

in the early 70’s there were good players and many characters like Harry Dowd, Ian Wood, Maurice (90 miles an hour) Whittle , Dick Mulvaney, Jim Bowie, Keith Bebbington, Colin Garwood, and some local lads like Chris Ogden, Andy Sweeney, briefly, and Keith Hicks 

 

we also had a couple of home evening friendlies around 71-72 against Internazionale ( possibly Inter Milan) and Borussia Dortmund 

 

the World Cup in 1970 in Mexico is also the first World Cup I remember and watching the England games or highlights before going to school 

 

it semmed to snow heavily every year too, and we had real pea souper fog

 

73-74 was another great season, winning promotion from Division 3 in style with more than one 6 goal victory at home, Southport and Huddersfield 

 

That season was when I went to my first away matches, with Latics taking over Southport on Easter Monday and York around the same time 

great atmospheres at both those games and we beat Southport too

 

I also remember in the early 70’s playing Villa at home and losing 6-0, which was on ITV’s Sunday football programme and getting some stick the following day at school from the Reds and blues, who never went to watch their team

 

silk scarves tied around your wrist and bouncing up and down on the boards at the back of the chaddy

 

 also remember playing Northwich Victoria in the FA Cup at Maine Road around 77 and being in the Kippax when we won 4-1, with 25,000 plus there,the original game being moved from their ground because they’d sold more tickets than the ground capacity

 

many great memories, and still going now 

Edited February 16, 2018 by stevesidg

[Dave_Og]

There was hope but there was no great expectation or sense of entitlement. 

[pukka]

47 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

There was hope but there was no great expectation or sense of entitlement. 

 

Im too young to know about what it was like in the 60s or 70s, but the sense of entitlement is a big one for me. That has crept in over the last 10 years.

 

"We should never lose to team x, y or Z" is spewed out as if we have a given right to turn up and win. These same people dont think we should never beat Liverpool for example.

 

The self congratulatory nature of how many fans we take to places & teams like Rochdale don't is bizarre. The day we took 2300 to Blackburn, pompey took 6000 to MK Dons... we aren't  any more special than anyone else.

 

 

[LaticsPete]

39 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

There was hope but there was no great expectation or sense of entitlement. 

i think this is spot on.

When Rowley began his reshaping of the team in the autumn of 1960 with the liks of Branagan, Lister, Johnstone, etc we were in a bad place , at the bottom of Div 4. My first game was then, we'd won one out of eight matches, and then lost this one. Despite this there were over 10,000 at Boundary Park. There was a sense of identification with town teams then and people turned up as Dave said, hopeful but not feeling they had a right to success.  Of course Bobby Johnstone lit a spark and less than a month later over 17000 saw his home debut.  

(It's difficult to explain to people brought up on massive tv coverage of football but seeing a star light Johnstone was something that was , for most people, something that could only be experienced in the flesh. )

So, yes in the early 60s there was significant optimism - and maybe it's to do with age but if you're a young supporter then it's natural to be optimistic. It felt good to be part of a local crowd, large in numbers (averaging over 14000 in the promotion year of 62/3) and with a goal scoring team on the pitch.  . Even when it got a bit rocky in 66 the optimism was sparked up with Ken Bates arriving and pumping money in. Despite the abomination of jettisoning our traditional kit he was still held in good regard as players arrived.  However that went wrong when he bailed out . 

One thing that was different was the short periods between highs. So, relegation in 69 but promotion again in 71, and again in 74. That feeds hope in itself. I can understand how those who have only watched Latics since around 1990 get frustrated...

[yarddog73]

1 minute ago, pukka said:

 

Im too young to know about what it was like in the 60s or 70s, but the sense of entitlement is a big one for me. That has crept in over the last 10 years.

 

"We should never lose to team x, y or Z" is spewed out as if we have a given right to turn up and win. These same people dont think we should never beat Liverpool for example.

 

The self congratulatory nature of how many fans we take to places & teams like Rochdale don't is bizarre. The day we took 2300 to Blackburn, pompey took 6000 to MK Dons... we aren't  any more special than anyone else.

 

 

Which is all very true but the fact we can take big numbers to localish away days gives me hope for when the good times do return, trust me all these pick your gamers will be all over it if we have any sustained period of success. What I find remarkable is these young lads with real passion for the team who really haven't seen anything, I hope one day they can enjoy a fruitful season, when I started going in the early/mid 80's I remember it much the same as now with similar low crowds and a rookie manager learning from his mistakes, that didn't turn out too bad in the end 

[TheBigDog]

12 minutes ago, pukka said:

 

The self congratulatory nature of how many fans we take to places & teams like Rochdale don't is bizarre. The day we took 2300 to Blackburn, pompey took 6000 to MK Dons... we aren't  any more special than anyone else.

 

 

 

Pompey get 18,000 home support we get 3,000 so I would expect their away following to be larger. 

 

But as a percentage (*) of that home figure and given our form over the last few years we are still up there with the best.

 

We haven’t got a lot to cheer about so why not celebrate our Away support?

 

 

(*) Pompey 34% Latics 75%

Edited February 16, 2018 by TheBigDog

[latics22]

24 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

 

Pompey get 18,000 home support we get 3,000 so I would expect their away following to be larger. 

 

But as a percentage (*) of that home figure and given our form over the last few years we are still up there with the best.

 

We haven’t got a lot to cheer about so why not celebrate our Away support?

 

 

(*) Pompey 34% Latics 75%

Not really because we are down to the last gluten for punishment ,so we should be getting more at away games really

[Dave_Og]

18 minutes ago, latics22 said:

Not really because we are down to the last gluten for punishment 

I don't think that should be tolerated...

[UsedtobeWozzer]

3 hours ago, stevesidg said:

I started watching Latics as a 5 year old in the late 60’s and my clearest memories from then are some night matches in the Lancashire senior cup against the likes of City, United and Liverpool’s A teams

 

From 70-71 to 73-74 my memories are clearer and 70-71 was a great season, getting promoted from Division 4, with Jim Fryatt and possibly David Shaw scoring many goals and exciting, attacking football, with us also winning the Ford Sporting League, most of the monthly prizes and £70,000 which led to the Ford Stand being built

 

in the early 70’s there were good players and many characters like Harry Dowd, Ian Wood, Maurice (90 miles an hour) Whittle , Dick Mulvaney, Jim Bowie, Keith Bebbington, Colin Garwood, and some local lads like Chris Ogden, Andy Sweeney, briefly, and Keith Hicks 

 

we also had a couple of home evening friendlies around 71-72 against Internazionale ( possibly Inter Milan) and Borussia Dortmund 

 

the World Cup in 1970 in Mexico is also the first World Cup I remember and watching the England games or highlights before going to school 

 

it semmed to snow heavily every year too, and we had real pea souper fog

 

73-74 was another great season, winning promotion from Division 3 in style with more than one 6 goal victory at home, Southport and Huddersfield 

 

That season was when I went to my first away matches, with Latics taking over Southport on Easter Monday and York around the same time 

great atmospheres at both those games and we beat Southport too

 

I also remember in the early 70’s playing Villa at home and losing 6-0, which was on ITV’s Sunday football programme and getting some stick the following day at school from the Reds and blues, who never went to watch their team

 

silk scarves tied around your wrist and bouncing up and down on the boards at the back of the chaddy

 

 also remember playing Northwich Victoria in the FA Cup at Maine Road around 77 and being in the Kippax when we won 4-1, with 25,000 plus there,the original game being moved from their ground because they’d sold more tickets than the ground capacity

 

many great memories, and still going now 

Remember all that! Southport away on Easter Monday was actually my 10th birthday, which by simple maths makes it 15 years to the day prior to the Hillsborough disaster. We achieved a lot in that 15 years. 

Some other memories - Formby away in the FA cup - so close to the pitch that when George Jones scored the ball nearly hit me in the face as the net bulged. Liverpool away in the cup - lost 3-1 but outplayed them for long periods and they only sealed it after Steve Heighway dived for a penalty. Never heard a Liverpool player booed at Anfield so loudly by thousands of ‘tics. 

It certainly seemed more enjoyable back then but that’s just the innocence and wide eyed expectation of youth I guess combined with year after year of relegation battles for what seems like forever. 

[whittles left foot]

Some great posts on here that I can identify with.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is how long players stayed at your club. 10 years was not uncommon in those days and testimonials were a fairly regular thing throughout football then. Compare to now when we literally do not know who is going to be in the squad next year, it is a huge difference.

The other point mentioned earlier is the team usually had a local player or two in it-Jim Bowie, Kieth Hicks, Ian Robins, Darren McDonough, John Platt for example.

 

That's a great memory the winter of discontent when we played in the afternoon due to the power cuts.

 

Think the quote from Dave _OG sums it up perfectly  for me.

[Flemboy]

Many fond memories of the early 70s especially.Great team and what a legend Sir James Frizzell was to OAFC

Best of all by a mile was the friends I made and the whole of Saturday was spent together starting off in the Mess House.

I will most likely have a drink later this adternoon with Jim Bowie at our local pub.He looks really well for his age and great to talk to.

It's like having a second family being an Oldham fan and I can fully relate to most of the comments made on this thread.

[GlossopLatic]

2 hours ago, OldHallam said:

Its percentage of home attendance though 73% at Blackburn. Take your point but Portsmouth a City population 205,000, Oldham 100,000 and in shadow of United and City to many. 

 

Id like to be excited by something abit more worthwhile than how many fans we take away from home as a percentage of our home support.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by GlossopLatic

[latics22]

3 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

I don't think that should be tolerated...

?

[Smiler13]

1 hour ago, whittles left foot said:

Some great posts on here that I can identify with.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is how long players stayed at your club. 10 years was not uncommon in those days and testimonials were a fairly regular thing throughout football then. Compare to now when we literally do not know who is going to be in the squad next year, it is a huge difference.

The other point mentioned earlier is the team usually had a local player or two in it-Jim Bowie, Kieth Hicks, Ian Robins, Darren McDonough, John Platt for example.

 

That's a great memory the winter of discontent when we played in the afternoon due to the power cuts.

 

Think the quote from Dave _OG sums it up perfectly  for me.

Jim Bowie was not a local lad he was brought to the club from Scotland 

[longtimeblue]

This is crying out for BP60's input.

[longtimeblue]

Cheesy peas. Jumpers for goalpoasts. Isn't it?

Edited February 16, 2018 by longtimeblue

[Flemboy]

13 minutes ago, Smiler13 said:

Jim Bowie was not a local lad he was brought to the club from Scotland 

I can definitely confirm he came from Scotland and has not lost any of the accent!!

[petera1]

2 hours ago, UsedtobeWozzer said:

Remember all that! Southport away on Easter Monday was actually my 10th birthday, which by simple maths makes it 15 years to the day prior to the Hillsborough disaster. We achieved a lot in that 15 years. 

Some other memories - Formby away in the FA cup - so close to the pitch that when George Jones scored the ball nearly hit me in the face as the net bulged. Liverpool away in the cup - lost 3-1 but outplayed them for long periods and they only sealed it after Steve Heighway dived for a penalty. Never heard a Liverpool player booed at Anfield so loudly by thousands of ‘tics. 

It certainly seemed more enjoyable back then but that’s just the innocence and wide eyed expectation of youth I guess combined with year after year of relegation battles for what seems like forever. 

I was at all 3 of these Merseyside games and having lived in Formby til I was 8 in 1970 they were special games. Was behind the goal at Bower Fold when George Jones scored and remember being scared to be hit in face too as were so near the pitch. Also walking down Scarisbrick Road on Easter Monday from my Grandad's in Southport, never heard such noise before, and from fans of my team! Great Days, or am I just being sentimental?

[Dave_Og]

53 minutes ago, latics22 said:

?

Errr, gluten/glutton....

[latics22]

16 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

Errr, gluten/glutton....

?

[oafcprozac]

I hope the OP doesn't mind me bringing this into the mid-late 80s. My first year was 86-87 and our most successful year in 13 years. The next two seasons were a struggle at times before excellent second halves of the season saw us pull into mid-table by scoring plenty of goals - not too dissimilar to this season being that we couldn't defend for toffee with a keeper that was pretty inconsistent for part of that time in a young Rhodes. The pitch wasn't an issue as we were on the Plastic Paradise. The team evolved rather than revolved through the door. Of course we sold to survive, in those first three years alone we sold McDonough, Futcher, Goram, Henry, Linighan, Flynn, Wright etc.. but we also replaced them with similar if not better Ritchie, Wright, Rhodes/Hallworth, Barrett, Warhurst, Bunn and brought through youngster Nick Henry. There was a sense of trying to build a future, the team could be guessed walking over Chadderton Way with my dad (Somehow the programme was always wrong though!)

 

Dad was always very frustrated with our attendances in the mid-late 80s, we fluctuated between sub 5,000 to about 8 or 9 if Blackburn or Sunderland or similar where in town. But often when Plymouth or Swindon arrived the town seemed to desert us en masse..Dad would shake his head and say 'Does this town want a club? We're the most entertaining team for miles yet they still don't back us, but they come crawling out of the woodwork when we have a big game'. He was right, perhaps a bit harsh, but he was equally frustrated as he struggled in and out of work during the glory years and he would often have to queue up at the crack of dawn due to not having a ST back then - 'Bloody band waggon, jumpers he'd moan!' As a fan during those heady days, it all felt like a dream, there's never been a sense of entitlement from me, although the years after relegation from the top flight and the first three or four in this league I felt as a club we deserved better. And we underachieved massively, it was like the club accepted it was forever to be shit. We were badly let down by Stott and co, who arguably have more to answer for than Corney and his chums. If we'd brought in investment as the Premier League dawned, who knows? Having said that the council equally let down Stott and co, with the Sports Park 2000 failure. Who knows where we'd have been in a state of the art stadium, not the Blue Peter version suggested at Failsworth.

 

Do I expect more now? Yes, prior to arriving in this league we were in the top two divisions for 23 Years very much punching above our weight, however by the late 70s we were battling it out in the top half and save for 83/84 and 84/85 we were troubling the top half year on year. That's not punching above your weight, that's a well established second tier team. We blew the golden goose by not investing after the Great Escape in '93. We limped along and cut our cloth too fine. The advent of Bosman and the increased power of the PL has killed smaller clubs like us, forced to be grateful for the minute crumbs flicked from the top table means we have to rely on loanees. We can't produce too many home grown players as it isn't cost effective given that the bigger clubs can snap them up and pay minimum compensation. The TV deal and solidarity payments to League One clubs are minuscule and in prior times would relate to a starvation wage. Without real investment the club is going nowhere. However, investment does not guarantee success but investment in infrastructure is a beginning.

 

My biggest issue is the way the club has been run in the last 10 years, so many clubs perceived as smaller than us have built teams on shoe strings and had success, Colchester, Southend, Burton, Luton etc.. have all had their days in the sun. We've simply been told to be grateful for survival in the third tier, with no hope of a challenge at the right end since 2007. That for a club of our size and potential is criminal, we have no divine right to be successful but surely we have a divine right to be allowed to compete? The infrastructure of the club has been allowed to rot, ok the stand has been built, but that it has transpired is not FULLY benefiting the club. Previously we had directors like Norman Holden and Peter Chadwick, local men made good - directors who would put money in when they could. The local links have died in the boardroom, although the appointment of Mr Snoddy may be a return to that.

 

When I first started to come to games in the 80s the club had a real identity, we played in blue and white no gimmicks. Home fans were in the Chadderton Road Stand, we played two up front and set out to win EVERY game, bog rolls greeted the team onto the pitch and the whiff of tobacco, bovril and piss purveyed every sense. The Old Chaddy End was a thing of beauty, the wit, the moaning, the clinging or sitting on the fence. Many a late winner was sucked in. Arriving home to Sholver on the 404 and Grandad had made his meat and potato pie, arriving home to a lovely warm house. If we'd won he'd greet us with "What a team!" if we'd lost 'Wouldn't pay 'em in washers'. 

 

Sadly we will never return to those times, what I hope we get under Mr Lemsagem is investment in the infrastructure and we are allowed to build the club again so that at some point in the next two or three years we can have a bloody good go at promotion again. We can all remember some of the good times, wouldn't it be great of some if those young lads that go everywhere could enjoy a bit of success - a promotion season?!

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by oafcprozac

[GlossopLatic]

On the subject of entitlement its often levelled at clubs on the way down such as Leeds, Newcastle and even Man City circa (96-99) as most of their fans who have become used to a degree of success are forced to accept a lesser existence. A few years ago a group of Newcastle fans held up a banner at a game (think it was Leicester) which read "We don't demand a team that wins we want a club that tries" I think its a fair message really. Now what fans regard as trying maybe itself subjective, but I think the majority of fans are forgiving if they think the club is really trying to push forward even at this level. While i'm sure most of us are realistic enough to know we haven't got the muscle in the transfer market of the likes of Wigan and Blackburn amongst others, Shrewsbury Town have shown us what is possible with modest resources at this level.

Edited February 16, 2018 by GlossopLatic

[lookersstandandy]

I can't commend Prozac's post enough.

 

Maybe it's because we are the same age, witnessed/experienced the same things, began our love affair within a game or two of each other....  but if you read it and think about what's been missing, it's the lack of a plan or identity;

 

I refer the honourable ladies and gents back to a set of questions that I feel we are entitled to ask, but accept we are not entitled to receive an answer to.... although it'd be f*cking nice if Mr. Lemsagam did take the time to do so;

 

- OAFC2004 Ltd makes a loss every year. In normal Limited company circumstances, this is not sustainable. Are you [AL] going to cover that loss and write it off every year until you can make it profitable? i.e You will not saddle OAFC2004 Ltd with Director loans that it has to pay back if/when you come to sell it?

- In order to achieve this, you will need to target an increase in revenue from player transfers and supporter numbers. How are you going to do this?

- Are you going to increase the playing budget so we can attract / sign more expensive [and hopefully therefore better] players, or are you going to operate within the same budget restrictions as our previous owner(s)?

- We are aware you believe you can unearth talent from your extensive knowledge of the World/European player/transfer market, however what are your views of investing in TP's youth set up [scouts, coaches, facilities] in an attempt to increase the frequency of & profit from home grown talent?

- Will it be possible to reduce the reliance on a procession of loans, rewarding prospects with good contracts and putting an end to selling cheap?

- We hope an improvement in the team's performance will attract/bring more fans back, however will you also address some of the obvious inadequate facilities in the 3 stands you own and find a way of getting Blitz/Gazal to complete the fans bar on the top floor of the north stand? Possibly through part or complete funding yourself and/or striking a deal that sees an increase in revenue for the club from the OEC?

- Will you invest in a new pitch and upgrade/improve the training facilities?

- Finally, will you work closely with OACT and the Marketing/Media team to do more to promote the club to the wider Oldham community including a better funded Boundary Blues with improved facilities/Events?

Edited February 16, 2018 by lookersstandandy