philliggi Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I used to be a die hard fan, home and away, bought every strip and used the message boards an an hourly basis. i used to be a mod on hear and worked closely with the club on a few projects including organising a sponsored do at the ernie cooksey game and walking the length of the country from millwall to Oldham in the name of Dr Kershaws. I would plan holidays and family events around latics and people around me accepted i was always unavailable most saturday afternoons. I WAS a die hard, hardcore fan. These days its somewhat different. granted my financial circumstances have changed and i couldnt go to every game even if i wanted too, but this season i have not been to an away game, have not bought the strip, I feel no affection towards the club I love and do not consider the players out on the pitch to be Oldham Players. We have players at the club who are from a long line of average joes. not one of the signings in summer i would call a coup, infact the best signing by far was Abbott, and is infact the only one of Penneys Signings who would get into Sheridans team from the beginning of last season. I am and always will be a season ticket holder, but the passion that has burned inside me since i was a boy is slowly getting weaker and weaker. I am not writing this as another Penney Bashing thread, Im looking at the club as a whole. there are many, many factors wrong with the club and I really do fear for the clubs survival. I do not believe the Players have the club at heart I do not believe the management have the club at heart I do not believe the Board of directors have the club at heart The players are turning out, picking up their pay packets each week and are seemingly unflustered when a result goes against them. The management seem tactically inept, incapable in the transfer market and lacking dicipline and respect from the playing staff. Five regular players are here from last season. Smalley, Whittaker, Hazell, Taylor and Gregan. With the exception of Gregan all have taken a step back this season. something which i personally reflects in the management of the team. Its too coincidental to blame it on individual players its obviously coaching methods and tactics. The board of Directors Are moving us to a new ground situated 4 miles down broadway, in the heartland of the City fan base. I work, and have done for the last 4 years 500 yrds from the proposed site and am yet to meet an Oldham fan. yet City fans come in on a daily basis. How then can they expect to gain any new fans in this area? In my opinion the fans you will lose from the Royton, Shaw and Oldham areas will far outweigh those you gain in Failsworth. Financial suicide. Obviously the sale of the ground will Pay for the new stadium, but, Again in my opinion, I believe rather than getting this new arena, we will see a supposed 'temporary' ground share with another club which will go on and on. the TTA bought the club for the land, and I fear once the sale of the ground has gone through, within a year or so we wont see them for dust. I have seen the financial records at Companies house (available to anyone who wants to pay for the privilage) AND THEY ARE NOT USING THERE OWN MONEY TO FUND THE CLUB. the story of Latics can be compared to that of the Glaziers, but on a scale 1000 times smaller. borrow the money against the football club, reap the rewards then sell on. if it all goes tits up, you havent lost anything, its the club with the debt. We are a shockingly poor team, with a management structure not up to the standard, playing in a dated three sided stadium, with a board who are in it for what they can get. THE CLUB IS ROTTEN TO THE CORE My origional point about being a die hard fan was not boasting. there are many other fans who have done, and will go on to do much more for the club than i ever could. I simply wish to make the point that If the club is losing fans like me, what hope have they got of getting the 7000 average they need to break even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I have seen the financial records at Companies house (available to anyone who wants to pay for the privilage) AND THEY ARE NOT USING THERE OWN MONEY TO FUND THE CLUB. the story of Latics can be compared to that of the Glaziers, but on a scale 1000 times smaller. borrow the money against the football club, reap the rewards then sell on. if it all goes tits up, you havent lost anything, its the club with the debt. Now this is interesting... It has been suggested that the TTA are pumping money in and it is not being borrowed from other sources... If TTA are now providing the money then who is ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) In fairness to Simon Corney, I have seen him at most reserve and youth team matches which suggests he does have some feeling for the club. Edited January 23, 2010 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midsblue Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Now this is interesting... It has been suggested that the TTA are pumping money in and it is not being borrowed from other sources... If TTA are now providing the money then who is ? Bank loans against the value of the land I'm guessing. Suspected this for a while, which is why I've never really jumped onto this TTA bandwagon. The resale value on the land has always been the carrot unless someone came in who was a fan of the club or a local. If a new stadium could have been built close to the M62 then I feel things would have been more different this season from the owners. The new location is fourth or fifth choice now and regardless of the "enthusiasm" shown the interest in the project has rapidly gone downhill. Hence no push for another striker, no funds for strengthening in the January window and the sale of Eardley, O'Grady and pimping of Taylor to anyone whose interested. If they were that ambitious then they would have retained Hughes in the summer. Lee wanted to stay; he wasn't asking the earth as he appreciated the support given but he wanted just a little extra in return for the goals he had scored already and going into the season. It wasn't much I assure you but the short term vision not only illustrated the change in focus by the owners but has come back and haunted them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Good post Phill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don't worry be happy Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I used to be a die hard fan, home and away, bought every strip and used the message boards an an hourly basis. i used to be a mod on hear and worked closely with the club on a few projects including organising a sponsored do at the ernie cooksey game and walking the length of the country from millwall to Oldham in the name of Dr Kershaws. I would plan holidays and family events around latics and people around me accepted i was always unavailable most saturday afternoons. I WAS a die hard, hardcore fan. These days its somewhat different. granted my financial circumstances have changed and i couldnt go to every game even if i wanted too, but this season i have not been to an away game, have not bought the strip, I feel no affection towards the club I love and do not consider the players out on the pitch to be Oldham Players. We have players at the club who are from a long line of average joes. not one of the signings in summer i would call a coup, infact the best signing by far was Abbott, and is infact the only one of Penneys Signings who would get into Sheridans team from the beginning of last season. I am and always will be a season ticket holder, but the passion that has burned inside me since i was a boy is slowly getting weaker and weaker. I am not writing this as another Penney Bashing thread, Im looking at the club as a whole. there are many, many factors wrong with the club and I really do fear for the clubs survival. I do not believe the Players have the club at heart I do not believe the management have the club at heart I do not believe the Board of directors have the club at heart The players are turning out, picking up their pay packets each week and are seemingly unflustered when a result goes against them. The management seem tactically inept, incapable in the transfer market and lacking dicipline and respect from the playing staff. Five regular players are here from last season. Smalley, Whittaker, Hazell, Taylor and Gregan. With the exception of Gregan all have taken a step back this season. something which i personally reflects in the management of the team. Its too coincidental to blame it on individual players its obviously coaching methods and tactics. The board of Directors Are moving us to a new ground situated 4 miles down broadway, in the heartland of the City fan base. I work, and have done for the last 4 years 500 yrds from the proposed site and am yet to meet an Oldham fan. yet City fans come in on a daily basis. How then can they expect to gain any new fans in this area? In my opinion the fans you will lose from the Royton, Shaw and Oldham areas will far outweigh those you gain in Failsworth. Financial suicide. Obviously the sale of the ground will Pay for the new stadium, but, Again in my opinion, I believe rather than getting this new arena, we will see a supposed 'temporary' ground share with another club which will go on and on. the TTA bought the club for the land, and I fear once the sale of the ground has gone through, within a year or so we wont see them for dust. I have seen the financial records at Companies house (available to anyone who wants to pay for the privilage) AND THEY ARE NOT USING THERE OWN MONEY TO FUND THE CLUB. the story of Latics can be compared to that of the Glaziers, but on a scale 1000 times smaller. borrow the money against the football club, reap the rewards then sell on. if it all goes tits up, you havent lost anything, its the club with the debt. We are a shockingly poor team, with a management structure not up to the standard, playing in a dated three sided stadium, with a board who are in it for what they can get. THE CLUB IS ROTTEN TO THE CORE My origional point about being a die hard fan was not boasting. there are many other fans who have done, and will go on to do much more for the club than i ever could. I simply wish to make the point that If the club is losing fans like me, what hope have they got of getting the 7000 average they need to break even. great post, But it does nothing positive to help us in our hour of need, you wouldn't be my comrade in my hour of need...Two little boy's had two little toy's .each had a wooden horse..Only the strong survive only the strong survive.....united we stand divided we dall etcetera etcetera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Good post Philliggi. I don't agree with everything you say but you do make some very good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Fantastic post phil pretty much sums it up for me .Had a choice today pay £49 to take myself my partner & three kids to a cold windswept dilapidated "stadium"to watch a bunch of unintested journeymen go through the motions on the way yet another demoralising defeat . Or i could pay £12.50 for the same people to go for two hours in a modern recently refurbished swimming pool with wave machine whirlpool fountains and a slide that was warm ok it was wet but thats what we wanted ! Financialy theres no compatition and a year ago there would of been no chance of my self & the kids missing a game just goes to show how far the club has fallen in the last twelve months the first time in 35 years of attending bp that i havent wanted to go i know of three family members who feel exactly the same .This isnt the club i grew up supporting where players were here year after year (wood hoolikin palmer blair etc) and took a pride in giving 100% for the club through thick and thin .Now i see a "team" of players who apart from the odd exception (taylor gregan)dont give a toss and are just happy to pick up a wage well mr corney and co heres 5- 8 people who will no longer be contributing untill things change . P.S. I was prepared to back project failsworth but can now see it being the final nail in the coffin . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I used to be a die hard fan, home and away, bought every strip and used the message boards an an hourly basis. i used to be a mod on hear and worked closely with the club on a few projects including organising a sponsored do at the ernie cooksey game and walking the length of the country from millwall to Oldham in the name of Dr Kershaws. I would plan holidays and family events around latics and people around me accepted i was always unavailable most saturday afternoons. I WAS a die hard, hardcore fan. These days its somewhat different. granted my financial circumstances have changed and i couldnt go to every game even if i wanted too, but this season i have not been to an away game, have not bought the strip, I feel no affection towards the club I love and do not consider the players out on the pitch to be Oldham Players. We have players at the club who are from a long line of average joes. not one of the signings in summer i would call a coup, infact the best signing by far was Abbott, and is infact the only one of Penneys Signings who would get into Sheridans team from the beginning of last season. I am and always will be a season ticket holder, but the passion that has burned inside me since i was a boy is slowly getting weaker and weaker. I am not writing this as another Penney Bashing thread, Im looking at the club as a whole. there are many, many factors wrong with the club and I really do fear for the clubs survival. I do not believe the Players have the club at heart I do not believe the management have the club at heart I do not believe the Board of directors have the club at heart The players are turning out, picking up their pay packets each week and are seemingly unflustered when a result goes against them. The management seem tactically inept, incapable in the transfer market and lacking dicipline and respect from the playing staff. Five regular players are here from last season. Smalley, Whittaker, Hazell, Taylor and Gregan. With the exception of Gregan all have taken a step back this season. something which i personally reflects in the management of the team. Its too coincidental to blame it on individual players its obviously coaching methods and tactics. The board of Directors Are moving us to a new ground situated 4 miles down broadway, in the heartland of the City fan base. I work, and have done for the last 4 years 500 yrds from the proposed site and am yet to meet an Oldham fan. yet City fans come in on a daily basis. How then can they expect to gain any new fans in this area? In my opinion the fans you will lose from the Royton, Shaw and Oldham areas will far outweigh those you gain in Failsworth. Financial suicide. Obviously the sale of the ground will Pay for the new stadium, but, Again in my opinion, I believe rather than getting this new arena, we will see a supposed 'temporary' ground share with another club which will go on and on. the TTA bought the club for the land, and I fear once the sale of the ground has gone through, within a year or so we wont see them for dust. I have seen the financial records at Companies house (available to anyone who wants to pay for the privilage) AND THEY ARE NOT USING THERE OWN MONEY TO FUND THE CLUB. the story of Latics can be compared to that of the Glaziers, but on a scale 1000 times smaller. borrow the money against the football club, reap the rewards then sell on. if it all goes tits up, you havent lost anything, its the club with the debt. We are a shockingly poor team, with a management structure not up to the standard, playing in a dated three sided stadium, with a board who are in it for what they can get. THE CLUB IS ROTTEN TO THE CORE My origional point about being a die hard fan was not boasting. there are many other fans who have done, and will go on to do much more for the club than i ever could. I simply wish to make the point that If the club is losing fans like me, what hope have they got of getting the 7000 average they need to break even. Absolutely bang on mate. I think I have missed less than 10 home league games in the last 20 years and I am done, until Penney is gone. I swear it, what we are witnessing is the most negative football ever. Had enough. Garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis Enrique Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I got my first season ticket in '88 & have had one every season since. today is the first time in all that time that I didn't attend a home match through choice. it's staggering to see the state of the club off the field today, and also how that is reflected in the shocking lack of footballing ambition shown by the manager & his players. on Wednesday I worked a 13 hour day, raced up from London for the match & was rewarded with a performance that showed a lot less effort & ambition than I had showed in getting there. just couldn't face it today. I'm not proud of this in any way at all, merely stating a fact. whether we go down or not this season I genuinely fear for the future of this once proud club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don't worry be happy Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Fantastic post phil pretty much sums it up for me .Had a choice today pay £49 to take myself my partner & three kids to a cold windswept dilapidated "stadium"to watch a bunch of unintested journeymen go through the motions on the way yet another demoralising defeat . Or i could pay £12.50 for the same people to go for two hours in a modern recently refurbished swimming pool with wave machine whirlpool fountains and a slide that was warm ok it was wet but thats what we wanted ! Financialy theres no compatition and a year ago there would of been no chance of my self & the kids missing a game just goes to show how far the club has fallen in the last twelve months the first time in 35 years of attending bp that i havent wanted to go i know of three family members who feel exactly the same .This isnt the club i grew up supporting where players were here year after year (wood hoolikin palmer blair etc) and took a pride in giving 100% for the club through thick and thin .Now i see a "team" of players who apart from the odd exception (taylor gregan)dont give a toss and are just happy to pick up a wage well mr corney and co heres 5- 8 people who will no longer be contributing untill things change . P.S. I was prepared to back project failsworth but can now see it being the final nail in the coffin . But it's people like yourselves that are putting the nail in the coffin look at the wider aspect and open your eyes it's YOU THE DIEHARD THAT IS KILLING THIS CLUB BYNOT ATTENDING GAMES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don't worry be happy Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I got my first season ticket in '88 & have had one every season since. today is the first time in all that time that I didn't attend a home match through choice. it's staggering to see the state of the club off the field today, and also how that is reflected in the shocking lack of footballing ambition shown by the manager & his players. on Wednesday I worked a 13 hour day, raced up from London for the match & was rewarded with a performance that showed a lot less effort & ambition than I had showed in getting there. just couldn't face it today. I'm not proud of this in any way at all, merely stating a fact. whether we go down or not this season I genuinely fear for the future of this once proud club. 13 HOURS???your only two short of being a trucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Right then Phil How does this money that TTA reckon they are pumping into the club show up in the accounts? I'm not saying I doubt you and I haven't seen them myself, but Corney has always insisted that it's their brass and they don't want it back, so what have you seen that says different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Right then Phil How does this money that TTA reckon they are pumping into the club show up in the accounts? I'm not saying I doubt you and I haven't seen them myself, but Corney has always insisted that it's their brass and they don't want it back, so what have you seen that says different. Quite. I have no idea if that's true but if it is, and from publicly available records, then it needs to be substantiated on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis Enrique Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 13 HOURS???your only two short of being a trucker ha! I've done 3 55+ hour weeks in a row. I deserved a day off today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Quite. I have no idea if that's true but if it is, and from publicly available records, then it needs to be substantiated on here. £10 to Kerhsaws says phil can't substantiate it, if he'll back the same. Latic's accounts state (apparently) that there is no outside debt. If phil knows something different, then the accountants, directors and possibly the auditors (not sire we have them - under £6.5m per annum turnover is exempt) would all be guilty of some sort of offence. Maybe phil needs to "put up" or withdraw his remark, cos it's a biggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Anyone can get a copy of the accounts from companies house for £1. I'd suggest anyone interested does so, however the trick is to interpret them properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 So, if the club's finances are structured like United's then all we need to do is issue £500M of bonds and we'll be sorted! In fairness to Simon Corney, I have seen him at most reserve and youth team matches which suggests he does have some feeling for the club. I believe he genuinely does. However that's not really much use to us, being as he's basically Blitz and Gazaal's tea boy (much as I like SC personally). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Phil that's quite an atom bomb you've dropped regarding the TTA claim that they are funding the short fall in cash here at Latics. I think you need to substantiate this claim right here. Also I think Barry Owen should also make a counter claim if it's not true. This is a biggie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Phil that's quite an atom bomb you've dropped regarding the TTA claim that they are funding the short fall in cash here at Latics. I think you need to substantiate this claim right here. Also I think Barry Owen should also make a counter claim if it's not true. This is a biggie! Agreed... It was my understanding this is exactly why we have a trust member on the board... Time to speak Barry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outoftheblue Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Agreed... It was my understanding this is exactly why we have a trust member on the board... Time to speak Barry... And while you're at it, maybe you could dispel the rumour that TTA refused to fund a four day training break in spain when the weather was bad, despite the players offering to pay for their own flights? Apparently the players felt that a bit of match practice against local spanish teams would benefit them (The Trannies game showed they were probably right!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Phil that's quite an atom bomb you've dropped regarding the TTA claim that they are funding the short fall in cash here at Latics. I think you need to substantiate this claim right here. Also I think Barry Owen should also make a counter claim if it's not true. This is a biggie! Spot on and if this is the case wouldn't we be paying interest on these liabilities as is the case with the glaziers which will be contributing to the current yearly loss we are making? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Sent Barry a PM asking for his thoughts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Sent Barry a PM asking for his thoughts... Will be interesting to hear his reply, either admit what's been alleged or dispel it immediately.........If you get an answer that is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philliggi Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 Firstly I am not in any way an accountant so i cannot digest the accounts accurately myself, but a good friend of mine is a qualified accountant and he put the information from companies house in laymans terms for me, using the glazier example to give me the general idea. if someone who knows what they are talking about would like to look at them and lay out a more detailed analogy of them feel free, as i simply cannot. However what i will say is that in my opinion it makes sound business sense to take out loans against the value of the land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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