Segregation in RRE

[Omar Don't Scare]

Was that because he stood in silence as you ranted about goalkeepers again ;)

[leeslover]

Was that because he stood in silence as you ranted about goalkeepers again ;)

No, but to be fair I was talking about accountancy. It must be the way to get on his good side.

[Harry Dowds Green Shirt]

You can hardly blame him. :censored: me, you want a pat on the back when the club do something correct? It has a long, grim history of completely :censored:ing about their own fanbase.

 

You couldn't be further from the truth. The club will never be able to do right for doing wrong anyway, so I don't bother about that. What gets my goat and this thread sums it up perfectly is that the club gets bollocked before it's actually done anything wrong. I've said it before and I'll say it again becasue in terms of a football club it definatley applies. You can't please all of the people all of the time, but you can please some of the people some of the time. Stick to that and it's about as good as it gets.

 

As for "a long grim history of completely :censored:ing about their own fanbase" This club is no different from many up and down the country. We are not a big City team, we are a small town team. We have to make do, when we get success it's hard to maintain it, when the inevitable happens, there are years of decline. A base needs to be found and built from again and with a little luck some success can then be achieved. BUT, we are not the only ones. From when we were in the premiership I can name you a number of teams, some much bigger than us who have seen that decline, the 2 Sheffield Clubs, Leeds, Leicester Swindon, Bradford, I could go on. It's happened to them all. Their crowds go down, the fans accuse the clubs of lacking ambition etc etc.

 

I've seen it time and again at our club. When I 1st started watching Oldham in the mid 60's, I recall 3rd division crowds of 4 and 5 thousand, I remember relegation to division 4. We sacked the then manager Jack Rowley and the club were accused of going for the cheap option in Jimmy Frizz. But Jimmy brought stability and had a little luck as well. He brought us success in terms of 2 promotions, a couple of cup runs including to the 5th round at Anfield in 1977. He was allowed to bring in the likes of Bobby Collins and Bill Taylor to assist him and kept the club in the 2nd division for 8 seasons where we competed against the likes of Man U, Man C, Sunderland, Aston Villa, Norwich etc etc. But hey that wasn't good enough for our fanbase who accused the club of lacking ambition. Crowds dropped and dropped from 12,000+ in 74-75 to a low of around 2,800 for a Tuesday night game in Frizz'z last season (81-82) Jimmy was sacked.

 

The club again accused of taking the cheap option in appointing Royle. The fact was Joe wasn't cheap, in fact he was almost free because he just wanted to prove himself even knowing from day 1 the precarious finances at the club. But the club had no choice. The chips were down and lady luck was watching over BP. Yes the club didn't have a pot to piss in. It was skint. It had to appoint Joe (john Wile from West Brom it would have been otherwise) But Joe did what was necessary. Kept us up, wheeled and dealed, some signings came off, others didn't but from that low point, the club found it's base, it's pivotal moment from where success would eventually come again. Joe through hard work then got some luck. You don't just pick up the likes of your Irwins, Barretts and Warhursts, you need that bit of luck and he got it. We just missed out in the play offs and ended up selling Tommy Wright (he just got to good an offer from Leicester) again the club was accused of lacking ambition, so what did they do, they signed Rock Holden (what a slice of luck that was. Sell 1 of your best players for £350K and sign an even better 1 for £165K) and the team took off had a superb cup run and then promotion to the top tier and a 3 year stay, crowds of 15 to 18 thousand.

 

Yes we have had hard times and decline in the 19 years since 1994, yet we haven't fallen as far as others, Swindon and Bradford have both dropped as far as the 4th division.

 

For me, the current regime showed too much ambition. Strange to say I know, but that is what I believe, because I think they should have sold Chris Porter when the money (£700K+) was on the table from Plymouth, instead we lost him on a free because they wanted to keep him in the belief that doing so gave us the best chance at getting promotion. I said we should have sold Chris Taylor to Scunthorpe when the £500k+ was on the table. Instead they backed the manager and again it backfired. I think we should have sold Mellor & Winchester to Fulham at the start of last season and pocketed the £400K. Instead the board, more concerned about the fans re-actions, again backed the manager who insisted they were part of his plans. Personally, I wish the club would put any worries about the fans to 1 side. We have always been and always will be a selling club. When the money is there. I'd take it virtually every time and re-ivest. Not just in the squad, but in the infrastructure. Yes mistakes will be made, they ahve been god knows how many over the years, but if they are made honestly, in good faith and not repeated and lessons learnt so what.

 

We have had a few false dawns these last few years, but strangely I get the feeling that despite everything the good times are not far away. It won't take much for us to take off again for a period. Yes it could quite easily slip the other way, but I don't think it will. One bit of luck could turn it for us. Jose Baxter signing for longer could be that springboard, PD or a new manager having that bit of luck that both Frizz and Joe had, someone coming in with a little investment, enough to clear what debt we have and put something into the infrastructure. Any of those things could be that catalyst.

 

But you know what, even if/when that happens there will still be posts accusing the club of this and that and pissing off the fanbase.

 

If the fanbase are really that bothered, all 15 to 18 thousand that used to come, club together, buy the :censored:ing club and turn up and pay everyweek. It's about the only way the club wouldn't be able to piss off the fan base. But there again it probably still would.

 

Rant over.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Harry Dowds Green Shirt

[JoeLatics]

Brilliant post HDGS.

[andy_b_100]

You couldn't be further from the truth. The club will never be able to do right for doing wrong anyway, so I don't bother about that. What gets my goat and this thread sums it up perfectly is that the club gets bollocked before it's actually done anything wrong. I've said it before and I'll say it again becasue in terms of a football club it definatley applies. You can't please all of the people all of the time, but you can please some of the people some of the time. Stick to that and it's about as good as it gets.

 

As for "a long grim history of completely :censored:ing about their own fanbase" This club is no different from many up and down the country. We are not a big City team, we are a small town team. We have to make do, when we get success it's hard to maintain it, when the inevitable happens, there are years of decline. A base needs to be found and built from again and with a little luck some success can then be achieved. BUT, we are not the only ones. From when we were in the premiership I can name you a number of teams, some much bigger than us who have seen that decline, the 2 Sheffield Clubs, Leeds, Leicester Swindon, Bradford, I could go on. It's happened to them all. Their crowds go down, the fans accuse the clubs of lacking ambition etc etc.

 

I've seen it time and again at our club. When I 1st started watching Oldham in the mid 60's, I recall 3rd division crowds of 4 and 5 thousand, I remember relegation to division 4. We sacked the then manager Jack Rowley and the club were accused of going for the cheap option in Jimmy Frizz. But Jimmy brought stability and had a little luck as well. He brought us success in terms of 2 promotions, a couple of cup runs including to the 5th round at Anfield in 1977. He was allowed to bring in the likes of Bobby Collins and Bill Taylor to assist him and kept the club in the 2nd division for 8 seasons where we competed against the likes of Man U, Man C, Sunderland, Aston Villa, Norwich etc etc. But hey that wasn't good enough for our fanbase who accused the club of lacking ambition. Crowds dropped and dropped from 12,000+ in 74-75 to a low of around 2,800 for a Tuesday night game in Frizz'z last season (81-82) Jimmy was sacked.

 

The club again accused of taking the cheap option in appointing Royle. The fact was Joe wasn't cheap, in fact he was almost free because he just wanted to prove himself even knowing from day 1 the precarious finances at the club. But the club had no choice. The chips were down and lady luck was watching over BP. Yes the club didn't have a pot to piss in. It was skint. It had to appoint Joe (john Wile from West Brom it would have been otherwise) But Joe did what was necessary. Kept us up, wheeled and dealed, some signings came off, others didn't but from that low point, the club found it's base, it's pivotal moment from where success would eventually come again. Joe through hard work then got some luck. You don't just pick up the likes of your Irwins, Barretts and Warhursts, you need that bit of luck and he got it. We just missed out in the play offs and ended up selling Tommy Wright (he just got to good an offer from Leicester) again the club was accused of lacking ambition, so what did they do, they signed Rock Holden (what a slice of luck that was. Sell 1 of your best players for £350K and sign an even better 1 for £165K) and the team took off had a superb cup run and then promotion to the top tier and a 3 year stay, crowds of 15 to 18 thousand.

 

Yes we have had hard times and decline in the 19 years since 1994, yet we haven't fallen as far as others, Swindon and Bradford have both dropped as far as the 4th division.

 

For me, the current regime showed too much ambition. Strange to say I know, but that is what I believe, because I think they should have sold Chris Porter when the money (£700K+) was on the table from Plymouth, instead we lost him on a free because they wanted to keep him in the belief that doing so gave us the best chance at getting promotion. I said we should have sold Chris Taylor to Scunthorpe when the £500k+ was on the table. Instead they backed the manager and again it backfired. I think we should have sold Mellor & Winchester to Fulham at the start of last season and pocketed the £400K. Instead the board, more concerned about the fans re-actions, again backed the manager who insisted they were part of his plans. Personally, I wish the club would put any worries about the fans to 1 side. We have always been and always will be a selling club. When the money is there. I'd take it virtually every time and re-ivest. Not just in the squad, but in the infrastructure. Yes mistakes will be made, they ahve been god knows how many over the years, but if they are made honestly, in good faith and not repeated and lessons learnt so what.

 

We have had a few false dawns these last few years, but strangely I get the feeling that despite everything the good times are not far away. It won't take much for us to take off again for a period. Yes it could quite easily slip the other way, but I don't think it will. One bit of luck could turn it for us. Jose Baxter signing for longer could be that springboard, PD or a new manager having that bit of luck that both Frizz and Joe had, someone coming in with a little investment, enough to clear what debt we have and put something into the infrastructure. Any of those things could be that catalyst.

 

But you know what, even if/when that happens there will still be posts accusing the club of this and that and pissing off the fanbase.

 

If the fanbase are really that bothered, all 15 to 18 thousand that used to come, club together, buy the :censored:ing club and turn up and pay everyweek. It's about the only way the club wouldn't be able to piss off the fan base. But there again it probably still would.

 

Rant over.

Amen brother.........I feel your pain and your spot on. Abso:censored:inglutly spot on. !!!!

[disjointed]

Don't often agree with what Harry has to say, but he is spot on, well done that man.

[LaticsPete]

Well said Harry.

[oafcprozac]

"Strange to say I know, but that is what I believe, because I think they should have sold Chris Porter when the money (£700K+) was on the table from Plymouth, instead we lost him on a free because they wanted to keep him in the belief that doing so gave us the best chance at getting promotion. I said we should have sold Chris Taylor to Scunthorpe when the £500k+ was on the table. Instead they backed the manager and again it backfired. I think we should have sold Mellor & Winchester to Fulham at the start of last season and pocketed the £400K. Instead the board, more concerned about the fans re-actions, again backed the manager who insisted they were part of his plans. Personally, I wish the club would put any worries about the fans to 1 side. We have always been and always will be a selling club. When the money is there. I'd take it virtually every time and re-ivest. Not just in the squad, but in the infrastructure. Yes mistakes will be made, they ahve been god knows how many over the years, but if they are made honestly, in good faith and not repeated and lessons learnt so what."

 

 

Pretty much what I was saying en route to Nottingham, the club can only move forward by nurturing and selling its' best young talent then re-investing in cheaper alternatives that are just as good. We've done it before - we can do it again but Corney (and Dickov) need to realise this is the way forward. Joe gradually built a squad doing this. Sadly 4 month contracts or 6 month loans are never going to allow us to progress. Corney needs to realise this and Dickov needs to accept that a procession of loanees to the detriment of our own kids making progress is not the way forward. The sooner the transfer window loophole is closed in 2014, the better for clubs like us.

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

Rant starts...

 

Rant over.

 

You know, it was probably more the condescending tone of "send your apology to x and y, and then grovel, fan. Because you are in the wrong." that got my back up the most really. A bit reactionary perhaps, but still, I felt it was uncalled for.

 

I can appreciate everything you've put in your post. In fact, the long history lesson I found myself nodding in agreement with. But that wasn't what I was getting at in the slightest. I know that we're what we are - a small club with a small budget in a tough economic climate where football's concerned. But that's no excuse for a lot of the things that's poor beyond belief. The :censored:ing about of our fans after they'd knocked the lookers down. The lack of decent marketing and PR. The odd outburst from Barry Owen. The odd outburst from Simon Corney. The worst website in the league. The fact that it's only taken til now to at least put in some kind of system to enable us loyal fans that don't buy a ST for whatever reason that may be (in my case, cricket and work keep me from making it worthwhile) getting tickets above the chaff that go once every Everton away.

 

The relationship with its own fanbase is poor, and I look around at smaller, non-league clubs even and think "if they can get things right, why the :censored: can't we"?

 

Don't view this as a direct attack with no foundation. View it as "yes, we still must do better and we will".

[Monty Burns]

I think the moat actually contributes any disorder. As the ancient Welsh proverb goes- 'It is easy to be brave behind a castle wall'

[Crusoe]

You couldn't be further from the truth. The club will never be able to do right for doing wrong anyway, so I don't bother about that. What gets my goat and this thread sums it up perfectly is that the club gets bollocked before it's actually done anything wrong. I've said it before and I'll say it again becasue in terms of a football club it definatley applies. You can't please all of the people all of the time, but you can please some of the people some of the time. Stick to that and it's about as good as it gets.

...

 

But you know what, even if/when that happens there will still be posts accusing the club of this and that and pissing off the fanbase.

 

If the fanbase are really that bothered, all 15 to 18 thousand that used to come, club together, buy the :censored:ing club and turn up and pay everyweek. It's about the only way the club wouldn't be able to piss off the fan base. But there again it probably still would.

 

Rant over.

 

Brilliant post.

[leeslover]

I think the moat actually contributes any disorder. As the ancient Welsh proverb goes- 'It is easy to be brave behind a castle wall'

[Stevie_J]

Why are people so keen to suck off Joy, Corney et al for giving Liverpool 'only' the large section? Why weren't they given the small section?

[LaticsChris]

I think the moat actually contributes any disorder. As the ancient Welsh proverb goes- 'It is easy to be brave behind a castle wall'

 

At the risk of asking a tremendously stupid question...

 

I've never managed to sit somewhere at BP where I've actually been able to properly see the 'moat' (Lookers/Main Stand) and always assumed it was just a wide set of steps barriered off. Is it in actual fact a drop down to ground level from the terrace/seats?

[Monty Burns]

At the risk of asking a tremendously stupid question...

 

I've never managed to sit somewhere at BP where I've actually been able to properly see the 'moat' (Lookers/Main Stand) and always assumed it was just a wide set of steps barriered off. Is it in actual fact a drop down to ground level from the terrace/seats?

 

It drops lower than the level of the steps and is full of deflated blow up animals, bits of cardboard, bottles and coins.

[LaticsChris]

It drops lower than the level of the steps and is full of deflated blow up animals, bits of cardboard, bottles and coins.

 

Any sheep?

 

Thanks for the answer though, I've spent many a jaded moment during yet another awful match squinting at the moat from a distance, trying to figure it out. I'll have to find something else to see me through League One matches now, eye-gouging perhaps.

[Matt]

You can hardly blame him. :censored: me, you want a pat on the back when the club do something correct? It has a long, grim history of completely :censored:ing about their own fanbase.

 

You couldn't be further from the truth etcs...

 

The volunteer match day staff ticket fiasco pretty much pisses all over that then. It might take supporter power from this very forum to sort that mess out.

 

http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=40654