oafc1955 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Dickov fom the Chron............“Some of the kids aren't ready to play yet and we are light on numbers, so we will see what can happen. You cannot expect young players like Winchester and Millar to come out of the reserves, step up to this level and play like superstars, since the reserve league was scrapped we have struggled to bring any players through and it's probably going to get even worse in the future. It doesn't help when we're battling to avoid the drop but I just can't see a situation where we would be willing to give young lads the run of games they need. Perhaps we should scrap the youth system as suggested because the situation we find ourselves in season after season demands instant success from our youngsters and it just ain't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stainrod Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Test them by sending them out on loan and keeping an eye on them. The only way if we can't/won't give them enough competitive reserve games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor evil Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Test them by sending them out on loan and keeping an eye on them. The only way if we can't/won't give them enough competitive reserve games The issue is they go on loan to non league clubs so even if they play well its a huge difference between league 1 and non league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) They'll never be ready under Dickov, he'd rather trust other teams' kids rather than our own which is criminal imo. Especially when Wabara is getting a game in front of Brown…. Cue another midfielder arriving this week and possibly a left-winger*, despite having the options available. Don't do it Simon, we need a striker, elsewhere make him play what he has, give Mellor, Winchester and M'Changama a chance and let them cross the halfway line. • purely an educated guess…. Edited January 14, 2013 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 BTW I don't get how a lad who played 21 times last season (Mellor) in League One is not ready??? Another lad who has made over 20 appearances for his club and is perceived good enough to play for both NI under 21s and be placed on standby for the full squad, then actually play for the full NI team. Our manager is an idiot…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stainrod Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 He does see them every day of the week though!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrown23 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 they won't be ready if they don't get the chance, and a proper chance at that, not 10mins here and there when we're chasing a game. the Mellor case just baffles me! as Prozac said, he played 21 games last season, most of them out of position and whilst he wasn't amazing, I thought he was steady enough and, like I said, was out of position. He seems to be at the bottom of Dickov's pile and I have no idea why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 BTW I don't get how a lad who played 21 times last season (Mellor) in League One is not ready??? Another lad who has made over 20 appearances for his club and is perceived good enough to play for both NI under 21s and be placed on standby for the full squad, then actually play for the full NI team. Our manager is an idiot…. I would love to position this to PD and ask him why he has not given Mellor a chance this season - maybe he has not seen enough in training - mind you he did say that about a certain Dan Taylor...and only now is he getting brief runouts - maybe Saturday will see Taylor given a start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 He does see them every day of the week though!! You can't always tell in training as players are not going at full throttle. It's like some champion racehorses who show little in training, but fly home when out on the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Winchester showed in the second half that he benefit from playing in the first half. Whilst this is an obvious comment to make I hope that he is given a run there whilst we have our preferred central midfielders absent. Simpson was found wanting at LM on Saturday and I was expecting Hughes or Mellor to come on on the left pretty early in the second half. I can understand Dickov's thinking that throwing too many young kids in at once severely weakens the team, look at Villa but there aren't that many options available to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Winchester has a shown signs that he could be a good player, good touch and a football brain but he is to too soft , to small and minces around the pitch never opening his mouth, until he sorts that problem he will never make it as a profesional, Mellor has not been given a chance after impressing last season, i dont know why but I dont see him training, looked like a real prospect though Miller is not good enough, plays 2 games at the end of his contract, gets a new one because its the cheap option, Not because he was any good, has never done anything of any note apart from coming on the pitch in the last 3 games and us conceding within 5a few mins (not his fault I know but it pissed me off) If they are not ready stop giving them proffesional contracts ffs! some of these lads are now approaching their 20's.....if they are not ready now they will never be ready! I have not seen enough of the others to comment but sounds like the same old story Edited January 14, 2013 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Winchester has a shown signs that he could be a good player, good touch and a football brain but he is to too soft , to small and minces around the pitch never opening his mouth, until he sorts that problem he will never make it as a profesional, Mellor has not been given a chance after impressing last season, i dont know why but I dont see him training, looked like a real prospect though Miller is not good enough, plays 2 games at the end of his contract, gets a new one because its the cheap option, Not because he was any good, has never done anything of any note apart from coming on the pitch in the last 3 games and us conceding within 5a few mins (not his fault I know but it pissed me off) If they are not ready stop giving them proffesional contracts ffs! some of these lads are now approaching their 20's.....if they are not ready now they will never be ready! I have not seen enough of the others to comment but sounds like the same old story I would keep Winchester ,but he does need beefing up...also Sutherland on a 3 year contract. Quite impressed with right back Tom Jones in the youth game last Saturday, he's coming on leaps and bounds, quick, excellent first touch, bombs forward at every opportunity, quite small, but very competitive. I wouldn't be surprised to see him offered terms, having said that at 18yo he should really be on the first team subs bench by now to in order to win that contract. Edited January 14, 2013 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchie82 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Winchester needs to work on his size and strength. Is he doing extra work on this? Has all the tools to be a top player for us. Head up at all times unlike most league 1 players. Mellor needs his chance. Left wing is not Simpsons position play Mellor there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Heck C-Beck Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I'm also baffled about mellor and Winchester if they are going backwards then it says something about the management! Have they got too comfortable and not working hard in training and bis Dickov has laid down the law refusing to play them until they step up? From what I have seen Winchester mellor and dan Taylor could be good squad players at least if they fulfil their potential! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStationLatic Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 The issue is they go on loan to non league clubs so even if they play well its a huge difference between league 1 and non league Not as big as you might think - numerous teams in recent years have gone up to L2 and straight up to L1. Crawley, Dagenham, Bournemouth, Exeter etc They need to play games. They should take a leaf out of Baxter's book and be desperate to play games - that's what Dickov has pointed the finger at. We all probably agree they need to toughen up - Winchester especially - so get them playing against men in proper competitive matches. Invaluable at any level. The competitiveness in Reserve games would be nothing compared with first-team football, even in the Blue Square Premier or North/South. Maybe Dickov and co have wanted them in-house to keep a closer eye on their development. But meanwhile, that money we turned down for Mellor/Winchester.............! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Where they go on loan to will surely depend on who's interested in them. If it's only non-league clubs, not League Two clubs, perhaps there's a message there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Where they go on loan to will surely depend on who's interested in them. If it's only non-league clubs, not League Two clubs, perhaps there's a message there too. Did alright by Tierney in the end though... As said above it's playing a real game with men that some of these kids need. You only need to see how off the pace some of the Premiership kids we've had are to know that reserve level games aren't enough to bring players through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Indeed. Playing in genuinely competitive games with hostile crowds and real stakes has got to do more at any level than reserve games. Just look at some of our "we'll regret letting him go" players, the ones who excelled in the reserves. Not many have made it as regulars at this or a higher level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Winchester was given a start on saturday but for me he did not impose himself on the game and hasn't done enough when I've seen him, he does need to get on the weights as others have said. I Don't want to write him off yet but nothing there has said we should pick him over Furman Wes or Mchangama, he needs to up it sooner rather than later as he is approaching the age where he should really be pushing the first team we don't want him to become Danny Boshell mark 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I can't understand what's gone on this season so far with our young players. I think even the most hard-nosed of our fans have to surely admit that there is talent in all of them. It's all relative mind, there's League One talent there - I'm not for one moment suggesting they're ready for the Championship and destined for the Premier League, but I think a decent number of them can look to forge careers at this level or the division below. Tarky is an outstanding prosepect for me - ball playing CB's aren't that frequently found. At this level & the one below - the prefered default CB is a big lump who can head it, tackle and when it's on the pitch; use their hoofs to clog it out of play. Tarky isn't that at all. Yep - he can do that if needed, but he's got more class about him; he can pick a pass; but more importantly than that; he's very comfortable in driving the ball out from the back; and going on runs to mix up the play. That's a rarety; and it should have been embraced & nutured; not stiffled by constantly dropping him as soon as either M'Voto or Byrne are back fit or suspension free. IMO, we've looked far better when Tarky has played this season; but as soon as Dickov can do; he's dropped him. Why? What happened to the spiel about whoever has the shirt retains it; and players having the battle back into the side? I've posted recently my thoughts on Mellor - it matches lots on here it seems. I just don't get how he hasn't been involved more. Granted there could have been a few small niggles that haven't been reported officially; but even if that has been the case - for such a long period of total uninvolvement to have gone on is criminal really - when it concerns such a top talent. Furman has been dross for most of the season; Preston and Notts Forest apart; he's been a shadow; and yet - week in week out; he's played. Wes has only been moderately better than Furman; but again, he's featured every time. 1st team players will go into a comfort zone if they know; hand on heart, that they're going to play regardless. The fact we've had a viable replacement sat doing nothing; whilst the 'senior' players have been serving dross up week in, week out is just baffling. PD says they're not ready? I say bull-:censored: to that. They are. Tarky is. Mellor is. Dan Taylor looks ready to me, Connor Brown is dam-straight ready; but is being kept out by another team's youngster; who - pound for pound; doesn't look that much of an improvement,, if any over the lad he's stopping playing. Connor Hughes and Chris Sutherland look set to go out wide. Ball playing wise; Winchester is ready; he just needs to work hard on the physical side. The only one who I would say falls into not ready, and probably wont ever be is Kirk Millar. That said, he had a positive impact on Sat when he came on - he looked nice & bright. I'm not advocating dropping anyone over 24 years of age; and replacing the whole side with 18 year olds here. But what I a saying is IMO, and it seems that of quite a lot of us here, PD's got it wrong. They are ready, and with proper management - they should have been getting games this season. Under-performing players have kept in the shirt; when we've got perfectly ready replacements waiting to be given a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Oh - and this is very worrying: Some of the kids aren't ready to play yet and we are light on numbers, so we will see what can happen That to me smacks of PD bringing in loans, instead of going with what's already available. Stands by to welcome a Matt Lund or Sam Mantom into our midfield at the expense of Mellor (again), Winchester and M'Changama. This smacks of Wes + Loanee to me......and that's bull-:censored: soldier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De_La_Vega Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Not convinced about Tarkowski, he looks too error-prone for my money. You can almost sense a goal coming when he plays, and that's corrosive further up the pitch. I'd still like to see him come on, because he has some ability, but there is a lot to do. Winchester should be playing full-back to me. Young, a bit flighty at times and not physically ready can be accommodated out there if you are technically sound and have some pace. There's time for him to become a man and then move into midfield. As for Mellor, I'm unsure. He has looked a talent at times, but back end of last year he was desperately poor for my money, and that was a surprise. Still would have expected him to play a little though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break The Silence Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I think Tarkowski will grow into a very very good player, certainly destined for much higher things than Latics. See Eardley, Tierney etc etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laticacid Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Re tarky , he cost us a few goals this season but totally agree about his ability, he s big enough, fast , comfortable on the ball and sees a pass . At minute we are short in centre mid, give him a chance in there, holding role, bit like Chelsea have done with luiz , I think he could do the job, sure dickov won't agree though . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Tarky will play at a higher level we are currently at, if he had a manager that played him and showed confidence in him he will come on leaps and bounds! he has the brain and the talent, he has made mistakes which may have affected his confidence but there is a very talented player there. PD lets some make mistakes and then play to get over them, others he drops..............especially the youngsters Edited January 15, 2013 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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