oafc1955 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 From the Chron........ “I hope Simon thinks I do a good job in developing young players. But there has to be a transition from when they leave the under-18s to the first team and I think it has stalled lately. Anybody believe this is a dig at Dickov's 2 and a half seasons in charge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Definitely and I agree - too many loanees at the expense of our own kids development Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 From the Chron........ "I hope Simon thinks I do a good job in developing young players. But there has to be a transition from when they leave the under-18s to the first team and I think it has stalled lately. Anybody believe this is a dig at Dickov's 2 and a half seasons in charge? I think it quite obviously is......and I agree. There has to be a transition, and a path to the 1st team. IMO, Tarky should have 60+ appearances as starts to his name by name, same for Winchester and Mellor......but Reece Brown, Aidy White, Evina (the loan version) et all have blocked that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I think it's a dig at the whole first-team set up under Dickov, not just the man himself. The young players haven't been properly prepared for first team football after stepping up to professional level. Taggart and Duxbury should have been playing a big part in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmfmadridOAFC Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I think the issue has not just been Dickov. Comes from the club as a whole. Dickov was there to get results, not to bleed in young talent. So naturally, he is going to try and get what he feels is better quality or more experience. The Chairman and the club as a whole needs to put emphasis on youth development. Plus TP needs to work closer with SC and the new manager to bleed in new players. Needs to be a policy of the club or we will be back to where we were on the youth development 6 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traffordtic Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 From the Chron........ "I hope Simon thinks I do a good job in developing young players. But there has to be a transition from when they leave the under-18s to the first team and I think it has stalled lately. Anybody believe this is a dig at Dickov's 2 and a half seasons in charge? Can't agree more, this man speaks so much sense and is extremely level headed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ33 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I think it quite obviously is......and I agree. There has to be a transition, and a path to the 1st team. IMO, Tarky should have 60+ appearances as starts to his name by name, same for Winchester and Mellor......but Reece Brown, Aidy White, Evina (the loan version) et all have blocked that. yes i agfree with this, for me Tom adeyemi seemed to be shoe horned into our stating line up last season, making over 40 appearances and in my opinion, come the end of the season left here a better player ( i admit he hasnt gone on to bigger anbd better things though!) had we shoe horned winchester or mellor in there game after game we would not be looking at our bench and saying we are down to the bare bones when looking at them to come on, as they would have progressed the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrown23 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 the one thing that really annoyed me about Dickov in terms of the young players was that we apparently turned down 300k from Fulham for Mellor and Dickov said something a long the lines of "if he stays here, he'll progress and get better." So why have most of his games been out of position and why is he very rarely in the match day squad? If rumours are true and Fulham thought it might be worth a 300 grand bid then surely he has some talent that we could have utilised instead of letting him sit on bench/in the stands and get worse. and then he was constantly on about the clubs finances, well you could have made us 300k!?!?! but he was a nice bloke so whatever.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Heck C-Beck Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I think it runs deeper than them not getting first team appearances, it will be the whole set up behind the scenes under Dickov. Things like training and attitude. I have heard a lot of our younger players do not possess a good attitude. It could be hearsay, but if true its up to the manager to get their heads in the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 The big problem is the useless reserve league with so few competitive matches, a stronger league with more clubs is needed for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossrocks Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) Mellor and Winchester have shown enough potential to have justified more first team game time, Tarky even more so. Also, whatever happened to Bembo-Lita and what went wrong with Allessandra? Is DBL even still a Latics player? Allessandra looked at one point like he was going to very do well here. One thing's for certain, I can't see another Taylor or Eardley coming through the ranks any time soon. Edited February 11, 2013 by bossrocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Mellor and Winchester have shown enough potential to have justified more first team game time, Tarky even more so. Also, whatever happened to Bembo-Lita and what went wrong with Allessandra? Is DBL even still a Latics player? Allessandra looked at one point like he was going to very do well here. One thing's for certain, I can't see another Taylor or Eardley coming through the ranks any time soon. Next season Sutherland and Clarke should progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Mellor and Winchester have shown enough potential to have justified more first team game time, Tarky even more so. Also, whatever happened to Bembo-Lita and what went wrong with Allessandra? Is DBL even still a Latics player? Allessandra looked at one point like he was going to very do well here. One thing's for certain, I can't see another Taylor or Eardley coming through the ranks any time soon. Bembo-Lita broke his ankle and was out for ages. His brother's shenanigans can't have been all that good for his morale too. Alessandra also broke his leg and it got infected too so was out for longer than he should have been. Plus there were rumours that he was an awful trainer. The fact that both of them are playing at clubs below us in Bemo-Lita's case he's in non league tends to point towards the fact that they weren't good enough for us. They may make a reappearance at our level but to be frank we can't afford to be carrying youngsters who aren't progressing and developing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Mellor and Winchester have shown enough potential to have justified more first team game time, Tarky even more so. Also, whatever happened to Bembo-Lita and what went wrong with Allessandra? Is DBL even still a Latics player? Allessandra looked at one point like he was going to very do well here. One thing's for certain, I can't see another Taylor or Eardley coming through the ranks any time soon. Nah, DBL's long gone. Alessandra was a talented kid but I'm not sure he had the required level of application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 DBL was vastly overrated. Too lightweight and too lateral. I think Philiskirk's comments are aimed at more than just Dickov, the Ressies have been drastically underwhelming for 5+ years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossrocks Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 we can't afford to be carrying youngsters who aren't progressing and developing. I absolutely agree. I just cited those two as examples of recent better prospects. I think Philiskirk's comments are aimed at more than just Dickov, the Ressies have been drastically underwhelming for 5+ years now. True, if the youngsters simply aren't good enough then there's not much PD could have done about it. Although we've recently committed to continuing the youth programme, the fact that there was even a possibility of it being axed must have wound TP up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesue Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 From the Chron........ “I hope Simon thinks I do a good job in developing young players. But there has to be a transition from when they leave the under-18s to the first team and I think it has stalled lately. Anybody believe this is a dig at Dickov's 2 and a half seasons in charge? And quite rightly a dig at whats been going on...we've trained and improved everyone else's youngsters this last two seasons but our own, the ones we have nurtured for the last 4 years...now what sense does that make? The ones who has more affiliation to the club than any of the loanees....yes we need some experience but we also need to give the young guns a go more often. We need to start to use the young lads properly....one game here and there is not going to get them match fit and to the standards the fans expect to see....I've see young players slated because they don't step up the the mark when they get there one opportunity....well if you had not had a game of anything for weeks would you be at your best.....keeping fit is all they can do but nothing replaces playing matches. So it's great to see Philliskirk making himself heard, he does such a fantastic job with little of his work being recognised as they are all but an odd lad released at the end of their training contract...even if they are excellent players or not. So yes let have a season of bringing them through and building an Oldham team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I think Dickov did pretty well with youth in his 1st year in charge, Bembo-Lita got starts early on before getting injured, Winchester got a decent amount of playing time and Tarky got chances to show what he was about. It was hard to complain about loanees in the 1st 6 months as they were doing well + Dickov and the coaching staff developed youngsters like Lee, Stephens and Taylor into better players. In the 2nd year he could've possibly done more earlier on although Mellor got chances in the 1st half of the season and Tarky played a lot in the 2nd half of the season when back from injury. I wouldn't have swapped many players in the 1st half of the season as the team and each player individually was doing fairy well but in the second half Dickov began relying on loanees rather than using youth when 1st teamers got injured. You could argue that we were heading towards a relegation battle but again from where we were in February we should never have been in that battle anyway. Hindsight's a great thing but surely our youngsters wouldn't have done any worse? This year youth integration in the 1st team has been a big point of Dickov's downfall. In a season where we've needed it the most Dickov has relied way too much on the senior players who weren't doing a good enough job. Byrne and Mvoto are our best pairing but Tarky should've been included more than he has and rotating the 3 would've been the best option. It's a similar scenario with Winchester, Mellor, Hughes, Millar, Brown and Taylor (even though the latter 2 aren't our youth products), it's tricky to know just how good these players are as they've not been given regular minutes spread out over the season, just the odd game or sub appearance here or there. Mellor's performance at Coventry showed the end result of the lack of playing time as he looked way off the pace of the game. Montano has shown potential but he hasn't been consistent enough to keep Mellor out of the team as much as he has. The final point I'd make is that something that has hindered youth development is that lack of vastly experienced players in key positions. You don't need a whole team of them but put them in the right positions and they bring youngsters on in season where they are developing. Look at Shez's 1st playoff season and where the players over 30 were, Pogliacomi in goal, Charlton at left back, Liddell on the right flank and Warne up front. An experienced 'keeper almost always settles a defence and the 3 outfield players who were most effected by the latter were Eardley from Liddell, Taylor from Charlton and Porter from Warne. The only player with vast experience regularly in this season's team is Byrne so it's not surprising that young midfielders or attackers haven't progressed more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluehobbit Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Im all for giving youth a chance but at the backend of last season most were calling for tarky to removed from the 1st 11 after an awful run of form where he seemed to ball watch a lot. Its all very well moaning the youths arent getting game time but they arent showing enough when given any. Hes been injured on and off this season but looked good on saturday for the most part. Look at Smith deried for most of the season, scores what should have been a point earner against conventry scores against liverpool and has missed some other good chances but at least hes there in the right areas to come good and now rightly people want to see him in the team. Millar looks like a kid playing park football Mellor looks Ok but nothing to write home about and Winchester might just might have something about him but looks leightweight and nervy The youth teamers we have let go in the past havent come back to haunt us and i doubt they will... We always have this thing with our young players that they are the next big thing but in reality most are just below average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshaw Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I absolutely agree. I just cited those two as examples of recent better prospects. True, if the youngsters simply aren't good enough then there's not much PD could have done about it. Although we've recently committed to continuing the youth programme, the fact that there was even a possibility of it being axed must have wound TP up a bit. Where the ressies not under Lee Duxbury?--------gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I'm no psychologist but it is no wonder that Mellor is not the player we expected. He was improving nicely but then loan player after loan player and little reserve team and no 1st team football. So what do you expect when finally he gets the call? You can blame him but what must Dan Taylor feel like with two strikers coming in on loan. Taylor will only improve if he gets time in the team in his position. If we survive the only way we are going to improve and mount a challenge is to bring on our own players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukers1 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I'm no psychologist but it is no wonder that Mellor is not the player we expected. He was improving nicely but then loan player after loan player and little reserve team and no 1st team football. So what do you expect when finally he gets the call? You can blame him but what must Dan Taylor feel like with two strikers coming in on loan. Taylor will only improve if he gets time in the team in his position. If we survive the only way we are going to improve and mount a challenge is to bring on our own players. I think its well known that David Mellor's mum or dad is really, really poorly... I think this could have an explanation in his dip in form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesue Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Im all for giving youth a chance but at the backend of last season most were calling for tarky to removed from the 1st 11 after an awful run of form where he seemed to ball watch a lot. Its all very well moaning the youths arent getting game time but they arent showing enough when given any. Hes been injured on and off this season but looked good on saturday for the most part. Look at Smith deried for most of the season, scores what should have been a point earner against conventry scores against liverpool and has missed some other good chances but at least hes there in the right areas to come good and now rightly people want to see him in the team. Millar looks like a kid playing park football Mellor looks Ok but nothing to write home about and Winchester might just might have something about him but looks leightweight and nervy The youth teamers we have let go in the past havent come back to haunt us and i doubt they will... We always have this thing with our young players that they are the next big thing but in reality most are just below average No footballer at any level senior or youth if they are not playing regular football will come and haunt anyone or any team....they need regular run outs to improve otherwise it really is pointless neutering them for 2 to 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesue Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Im all for giving youth a chance but at the backend of last season most were calling for tarky to removed from the 1st 11 after an awful run of form where he seemed to ball watch a lot. Its all very well moaning the youths arent getting game time but they arent showing enough when given any. Hes been injured on and off this season but looked good on saturday for the most part. Look at Smith deried for most of the season, scores what should have been a point earner against conventry scores against liverpool and has missed some other good chances but at least hes there in the right areas to come good and now rightly people want to see him in the team. Millar looks like a kid playing park football Mellor looks Ok but nothing to write home about and Winchester might just might have something about him but looks leightweight and nervy The youth teamers we have let go in the past havent come back to haunt us and i doubt they will... We always have this thing with our young players that they are the next big thing but in reality most are just below average Trust me Winchester might be lightweight ....nervy never in million years.....confident in his ability but not able to prove himself due to lack of opportunities! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 DBL was vastly overrated. Too lightweight and too lateral. I think Philiskirk's comments are aimed at more than just Dickov, the Ressies have been drastically underwhelming for 5+ years now. Good point by you ans.BP1960.We collectively oseemed to have developed the.expectation that Youths will do a short time in the youth squad and go straight into 1st team squad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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