Oh Heck C-Beck Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) Regardless of who the manager is surely a severe lack of investment on the playing side is what is really causing out continuous flirt with relegation. Every season we just replace our squad rather than develop it. I know some fans on here like to slag off old players when they leave but surely we would be in a better position if we could have kept the likes of Croft, Baxter, M Smith, Furman, Mvoto and then added players like K Smith, Kusunga, Philliskirk, Rooney, Lanzoni, Clark Harris, mills, Worrall and harkins etc. All teams in the football league can afford a few good players. The ones that tend to do well keep and add more quality to the ones they already have, but of course that takes money. I just can't see this current cycle changing without more investment. When Sheridan was in charge we had a lot more quality in the squad and I don't think it is a coincidence that we were much higher up the table. I genuinely think there is a good manager in LJ as by all accounts he has a limited squad playing some good stuff. It's a shame we can't afford to give him the resources that would allow us to see what he read can/can't do. Edited January 19, 2014 by Oh Heck C-Beck
MAC0AFC Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 unless you've got a few bob in the bank yourself... this squad and manager isn't getting any investment at all, that's no dig at corney, he does what he can and keeps us surviving but he's simply hasn't got the 1 million in his back pocket this club needs
Schlieb Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Regardless of who the manager is surely a severe lack of investment on the playing side is what is really causing out continuous flirt with relegation. Every season we just replace our squad rather than develop it. I know some fans on here like to slag off old players when they leave but surely we would be in a better position if we could have kept the likes of Croft, Baxter, M Smith, Furman, Mvoto and then added players like K Smith, Kusunga, Philliskirk, Rooney, Lanzoni, Clark Harris, mills, Worrall and harkins etc. All teams in the football league can afford a few good players. The ones that tend to do well keep and add more quality to the ones they already have, but of course that takes money. I just can't see this current cycle changing without more investment. When Sheridan was in charge we had a lot more quality in the squad and I don't think it is a coincidence that we were much higher up the table. I genuinely think there is a good manager in LJ as by all accounts he has a limited squad playing some good stuff. It's a shame we can't afford to give him the resources that would allow us to see what he read can/can't do. I basically echo this sentiment in the "Johnson take the blame" thread. Albeit not as well thought out! Good post fella
lancy lad Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 This is my biggest worry. Where would we be if we hadn't had money spinning FA Cup ties for the 3rd season running? No investment = disaster.
opinions4u Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Anybody taking a job as manager of Latics knows the score. Johnson took the job knowing the budget. Even suggesting it was bigger than he needed to be competitive. Doubling the budget with "investment" is no guarantee of success.
HarryBosch Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Regardless of who the manager is surely a severe lack of investment on the playing side is what is really causing out continuous flirt with relegation. Every season we just replace our squad rather than develop it. I know some fans on here like to slag off old players when they leave but surely we would be in a better position if we could have kept the likes of Croft, Baxter, M Smith, Furman, Mvoto and then added players like K Smith, Kusunga, Philliskirk, Rooney, Lanzoni, Clark Harris, mills, Worrall and harkins etc. All teams in the football league can afford a few good players. The ones that tend to do well keep and add more quality to the ones they already have, but of course that takes money. I just can't see this current cycle changing without more investment. When Sheridan was in charge we had a lot more quality in the squad and I don't think it is a coincidence that we were much higher up the table. I genuinely think there is a good manager in LJ as by all accounts he has a limited squad playing some good stuff. It's a shame we can't afford to give him the resources that would allow us to see what he read can/can't do. Don't you mean lack of continuity rather than lack of investment?
Midsblue Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 I'm sorry but investment, budgets etc is a massive red herring Under Stitch when all we could field was the likes of Rickers, Bosh and the rest then investment was the issue Looking at our current crop of players - Oxley, Rachubka, Tarkowski, Kusunga, Weslowski, Smith, Dayton, Harkins, Worrell, Rooney, McDonald, Philliskirk - we have a budget and side easily comparable to 80% of this league. We don't have strength in depth of the squad but who does in this league? You have to exclude Wolves, Sheff Utd, Peterborough, MK Dons and Coventry but that's just five. There's 7 places up for grabs come May and money doesn't guarantee those 5 automatic right - just see Sheff Utd. Money can buy quality but it comes with accountability and responsibility; Rooney is a classic case of large wage should guarantee a return but doesn't always happen. You could have a small budget but recruitment, training, tactics, mindset, application and confidence cost little but equally or more important than the biggest wage budget in this league.
Schlieb Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Don't you mean lack of continuity rather than lack of investment? You need investment for continuity
HarryBosch Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 You need investment for continuity Not necessarily. A lot of the players you mentioned could have been signed on longer deals than they were. Doing that & not having to pay agents fees & signing on fees for their replacements every year might well have worked out cheaper. Not to mention we might have sold one or two on for a fee. This is one of the reasons I'm optimistic Johnson will get it right in the end. He see's this & has brought Corney round to that way of thinking.
WIZZO83 Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 During the 1st Fans Foum LJ said he was HAPPY WITH THE BUDGET!!!! He said he could punch above our weight with that Budget. Im not having the budget as an excuse. Yeovil did pretty well last year with a similair budget
MaskedOwl Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 I know it's been posted before but where do we lie in terms of budget compared to other teams in the league?
HarryBosch Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) Mods - any chance of a ban on the word "budget"? #amf Edited January 19, 2014 by HarryBosch
al_bro Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 The only way we could have a bigger budget is for more people to come through the gates. If those who went to Liverpool turn up then the budget could rise by around 20%. As has been said, that does not guarantee success. Look how much Forest forked out season after season until they finally made it. Longer contracts have hurt us in the pat when we have had to pay off players who weren't good enough, or were just plain lazy by conning the club into giving them a contract. I think the current squad is good enough. What is lacking is composure in front of goal.
oafc2002 Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Regards Orient I imagine their budget isn't that much bigger than ours but they do have continuity, as previously stated that's what we lack. Every year it seems there's a massive change round in our squad. We missed a trick in not keeping Croft last summer and on the point of Orient can't help feeling Chris Dagnall would have been a great signing for us.
singe Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 If you look at the number of players bought, then for me SC has backed each of his manager. LJ is a long way off going yet, but if this continues as long as it did with PD then there will be no choice(I am hopeful it won't as LJ changes things whereas PD never did) but if it stays the same that will be 2 rookies it did not work with so a proven guy would be the next choice. We have to sell to survive, but hopefully the new stand should give us that bit extra we need.
lancy lad Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Anybody taking a job as manager of Latics knows the score. Johnson took the job knowing the budget. Even suggesting it was bigger than he needed to be competitive. Doubling the budget with "investment" is no guarantee of success. Can't disagree with that. I just reckon whoever is in charge will be on a hiding to nothing without any investment.
lancy lad Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Brentford? Apparently their budget is 10 times bigger than ours.
lancy lad Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 If you look at the number of players bought, then for me SC has backed each of his manager. LJ is a long way off going yet, but if this continues as long as it did with PD then there will be no choice(I am hopeful it won't as LJ changes things whereas PD never did) but if it stays the same that will be 2 rookies it did not work with so a proven guy would be the next choice. We have to sell to survive, but hopefully the new stand should give us that bit extra we need. It's nowt to do with the amount of players brought in IMO singe. More to do with how much we can pay them........ If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
ChaddySmoker Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 I'm sorry but investment, budgets etc is a massive red herring Under Stitch when all we could field was the likes of Rickers, Bosh and the rest then investment was the issue Looking at our current crop of players - Oxley, Rachubka, Tarkowski, Kusunga, Weslowski, Smith, Dayton, Harkins, Worrell, Rooney, McDonald, Philliskirk - we have a budget and side easily comparable to 80% of this league. We don't have strength in depth of the squad but who does in this league? You have to exclude Wolves, Sheff Utd, Peterborough, MK Dons and Coventry but that's just five. There's 7 places up for grabs come May and money doesn't guarantee those 5 automatic right - just see Sheff Utd. Money can buy quality but it comes with accountability and responsibility; Rooney is a classic case of large wage should guarantee a return but doesn't always happen. You could have a small budget but recruitment, training, tactics, mindset, application and confidence cost little but equally or more important than the biggest wage budget in this league. Excellent post, money distorts the understanding of what is a simple game of 11 versus 11. We will be ok with LJ, KTF
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 It's down to the board for appointing inexperienced managers.
PlayItLivo Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Do Orient have a big budget by the way? They have more scope to increase their budget than we do. If Orient get promoted Barry Hearn will start chucking a few more bob at them I reckon.
GlossopLatic Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 It's down to the board for appointing inexperienced managers. And when we appointed experienced managers like warnock Talbot Moore and Penney and they failed that was the boards fault too was it?
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