slystallone Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Confused - is this loan for now; as in this lad is coming in for the rest of the season; or is this for a full season loan next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JA11K Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 In what way? Can pick out a pass well and is clearly confident when the ball's at his feet. I'd even go as far to say that he's learning to use his body to create space, if you watch him when he's receiving the ball he quite often feints to go one way before going the other to give himself a bit extra space. I agree that he's physically weak, but on the ball he's one of the better midfielders in our team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Winchester is a very very good player. One of the best technical players on our books... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I would have loved Winchester to have made it, I was there at Accrington on his debut, unfortunately I think he has done lots wrong in his recent appearances like what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Confused - is this loan for now; as in this lad is coming in for the rest of the season; or is this for a full season loan next season? neither - it's a story in the People Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Mellor and Winchester worth another year . Only if they're going to get a proper run in the side. If they're not I'd rather they were allowed to go elsewhere and start their inevitable Tierney/Eardley-esque marches to bigger & better things - for our sake and theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Winchester is a very very good player. One of the best technical players on our books...It's only a couple of months since he scored the best goal I'veseen from a Latics player. I'd start him every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Winchester is a very very good player. One of the best technical players on our books... He just reminds me too much of Danny Boshall. Technically very good, great control, good passer. But far too weak, lightweight and ineffective at our level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It's only a couple of months since he scored the best goal I'veseen from a Latics player. I'd start him every week. Five months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Winchester has never had an extended run in the team, under two managers and 3 and a half seasons. How can we justify giving him a new deal if he's getting nowhere near the first team and when loans are prefered over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatjoe1 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Don't they both have a problem with stamina? Or have i misunderstood previous comments/suggestions. If they do then they should be flirted. They won't develop, physically, much further, and they're not kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAFC33 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 We seem to be hindering the development of our own young players by taking City EDS players on loan. Winchester is a case in point. He needs regular game time - he had a poor half recently against Rotherham but I think he's worth giving a 2 year deal. Better RB than Connor Brown and the most naturally gifted midfielder we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Don't they both have a problem with stamina? Or have i misunderstood previous comments/suggestions. If they do then they should be flirted. They won't develop, physically, much further, and they're not kids. Sure better IT savvy posters will be able to post up a link, but Johnson definitely said that Carl Winchester has a fitness issue that stops him from completing 90mins of football. Mellor had that weird 'I can't run moment' earlier in the season too. Kirk Millar, I actually think there is a decent League One winger in there. But, after doing really well at the back end of last season, I expected him to kick on a level after that. He hasn't done. He hasn't featured; and there must be reason for that. LJ and the management team see him every day; week in week out, and they haven't put him in - so he mustn't be doing the right things in training? And, when playing for the reserves, from what has been posted; he hasn't exactly been stating his case either. I think in the interests of both parties; his deal shouldn't be renewed; and he can leave to find a club where he might feature more regularly. Mellor & Winchester? I think both are worth offering another 1 year deal to; there is something there with both of them - and merely as squad players filling in at LB & RB and in midfield, they are worth the extra deal. Also, and there will reach a time when we can no longer keep saying this, but they could finally kick on and make their stake for a regular starting spot. I actually think Winchester is the better player of the 2 of them, and I would have him in at RB ahead of Brown right now; but both certainly have something to work with, if they a.) finally get a chance for an extended run and b..) take that chance when they get it. Edited March 24, 2014 by slystallone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Winchester's crying out to be a permanent fixture at right midfield. He'll help out at right back (as seems to be a requirement of the limited League One footballer nowadays), he can go past a man, put a cross in, put a foot on it, come inside to help out at CM when necessary and he's got a goal in him. And he's cheap. What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Successive managers have not felt that Mellor or Winchester are worth chancing for an extended run. Whilst that's unfortunate both have had many individual matches In which to demonstrate a wow factor. There's a responsibility on them to seize chances when they present themselves . Some of you will remember Darren McDonough from the early. 80s. Made his debut at 18 and really seized every opportunity. A completely whole hearted player. Just don't get that feeling about Mellor or Winchester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Mellor & Winchester? I think both are worth offering another 1 year deal to; there is something there with both of them - and merely as squad players filling in at LB & RB and in midfield, they are worth the extra deal. Also, and there will reach a time when we can no longer keep saying this, but they could finally kick on and make their stake for a regular starting spot. I'd expect they'll both be offered deals on the same terms as they are on now, a final chance to prove their worth. If they take it then great, a couple of players with potential on what one would assume to be on a small wage, and if they don't and get another club we'll be due some money. The only one I'm concerned about for next season is Grounds, who IIRC is out of contract and there's been no word re a new deal for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Winchester's crying out to be a permanent fixture at right midfield. He'll help out at right back (as seems to be a requirement of the limited League One footballer nowadays), he can go past a man, put a cross in, put a foot on it, come inside to help out at CM when necessary and he's got a goal in him. And he's cheap. What am I missing? Well, nothing for me. Firstly Dayton, then Worrall and also Philliskirk in parts have all been played in that RM role. I don't think that Carl Winchester is any different to those 3; and what they have managed to produce this season. Worrall, after a promising debut, has flattered to deceive and this season from Dayton hasn't hit the heights that I, and many others, thought it would do for him. Philliskirk isn't a winger or wide man; and is wasted and poorly used when he's put out there. Would Winchester have faired any worse than the 3 above if given the extended run that position? Might he have kicked on with a full proper season of football under his belt and a concerted run of games? Guess we'll never know this season. But, as one of the better technical players on our books; I'd want him in my side if given the choice; and either RB or RM is where I'd put him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astottie Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) like what? I think hes has been overrun by the opposition at times when he is central midfield. He seems to need a lot of time on the ball to do anything with it and when closed down quickly I dont think he can shield the ball or lay it off confidently. He has been caught in possession or just shrugged off the ball too often for me. On the right I think he can look uncertain, not quite sure where he should be and is therefore neither an attacking winger or a tucked in extra midfielder. I dont think he's strong enough either. He does show flashes and he tries hard but hes been on the edge of the team for over 3 years and if he was going to make it then I think he would be playing more games by now. I think like some of our other youngsters he's been done a disservice by playing in different positions, being overlooked in favour of loanees and managers who havent got enough faith in him. Maybe a run at right back a couple of seasons back would have helped him. I'd love him to make it, brilliant goal against Swindon, super left footed cross against Liverpool, but I just can't see it. I'd love to be wrong. Edited March 24, 2014 by astottie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I'd expect they'll both be offered deals on the same terms as they are on now, a final chance to prove their worth. If they take it then great, a couple of players with potential on what one would assume to be on a small wage, and if they don't and get another club we'll be due some money. The only one I'm concerned about for next season is Grounds, who IIRC is out of contract and there's been no word re a new deal for him. I'm not really - I actually don't think it'd be the end of the world if his deal ran down and he left. For a senior player, on what I guess will be one of the higher contract wages in the squad, he's been pap this season and had a bit of stinker. At LB he's been awful - hasn't overlapped, got forward at all really, and has misplaced so many passes it's untrue. He's been better when playing CB - but even then, he's defended well enough, but the minute he's go the ball; he's either given it away with an awful pass or it's an aimless long ball up field to 'anywhere will do'. IMO; there are better LB's out on the market, and better specialist CB's too. Truelove; if he recovers from his injury; and he should do; can provide back-up - and may even push for starting next season; plus Mellor can do the back-up role if needed; if he's offered a deal too. I wouldn't be rushing to sign him up again, nor would I be breaking the bank in any deal either. He's had a very poor season this season IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc21 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Let all 3 go for me,the onlyway any of these players will improve would be at a new club,fresh start at another club,they have been at Oldham far to long,to produce anything special now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losesome Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Let all 3 go for me,the onlyway any of these players will improve would be at a new club,fresh start at another club,they have been at Oldham far to long,to produce anything special now Agree , if they were going to make the grade in league one they would be established in the team by now. Time to let go and give somebody else a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceskylatic Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Agree , if they were going to make the grade in league one they would be established in the team by now. Time to let go and give somebody else a chance. Yep,I think Gosset should be given that chance next season and Mellor,Millar & Winchester released.Cheap options they may be but haven't progressed much if at all IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Successive managers have not felt that Mellor or Winchester are worth chancing for an extended run. I've seen more from Mellor and Winchester than I have Johnson and Dickov ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Can pick out a pass well and is clearly confident when the ball's at his feet. I'd even go as far to say that he's learning to use his body to create space, if you watch him when he's receiving the ball he quite often feints to go one way before going the other to give himself a bit extra space. I agree that he's physically weak, but on the ball he's one of the better midfielders in our team. I think he has true potential to be a top box to box midfielder at this level or above. I'm chuffed you replied in such detail because he so often gets slated by some posters on here with little justification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey1980 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I strongly agree with astottie above. I like Winchester as a package (and this is clearly in the clubs decision making process), so do a large number of scouts who come to watch us play. However I am surprised so many people clearly rate his vision. He has the technical ability to 'ping' a ball from side to side of the pitch but I feel his speed of decision making is a major issue. Precisely the reason he needs to feint and create space is because often he has invited pressure in an area of the pitch where it is at a premium due to the time he requires on the ball. Think the (at least) 3 vs 1 break that he ran straight into a defender at Brentford or the goal we conceded (against who last season it escapes me) where he held onto the ball - ran it 40 yards back into his own final third before being tackled leading to a goal. I don't say that to slate a talented young footballer, simply to query his vision as a strength of his game. He has always looked better as a wide player to me where he has decisions dictated to him rather than giving him the responsibility of creating those opportunities centrally. As a full back or wide player he could be a real outlet in a good footballing side - much more so than a Connor Brown for instance. That said I suspect if he had half of Brown's desire to play and improve he might be there already.... Edited March 24, 2014 by whitey1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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