Frankly Mr Shankly Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 How many fans would it take for us to be League 1 size? Or is your real size determined solely by the backer your club has? Basically, how do you measure the realistic level of a club? I'd say that crowds are a factor but what I think Corney is getting at is clubs that are self-sufficient on crowds to comfortably stay in League 1. We're not, we're constantly having to rely on loans, quick-fixes and unbudgeted income like cup runs just to keep the club in this division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Out of curiosity what was our average crowds before they came in with the promise of better things ? If it was less than what we get now then fair do's if not then they have failed us, whichever way you look at it the clubs support or lack of it boils down to lack of investment and false promises, many wont have this because of the circumstances they took us over from but the reality is a lot of what they promised was all wind and piss with no real sign of improvement.Our average attendance in 2002/3 was 6699 (but we came fifth that year), our average attendance in 2003/4 (the year they took over) was 6566, in 2004/5 it was 6462. Now it's 4273. So a drop of over 2000. 2000 people paying £300 a year is £600,000 more than what we made from Tarky and Baxter combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Our average attendance in 2002/3 was 6699 (but we came fifth that year), our average attendance in 2003/4 (the year they took over) was 6566, in 2004/5 it was 6462. Now it's 4273. So a drop of over 2000. 2000 people paying £300 a year is £600,000 more than what we made from Tarky and Baxter combined. And since then we have lost the social aspect to the day out, clayton arms, lookers stand have all been lost, its not the be all and end all but corney is probably well looked after before during and after a game, the facilities (players lounge) has greatly improved since I frequented it, the same cant be said for the rest of the ground, how can teams like rochdale do it then on crowds of 2000 there ground has been transformed over the past 10/20 years whilst ours as gone backwards, you have to change with the times not mark time and corneys cries for self pity are wearing a bit thin tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 When TTA took over the Club, Danny Gazal said: "The attendances are key. We need to get to a position where 8 to 9,000 people are coming on a regular basis."After making economies, the viability figure was revised downwards, but has not been reached, other than for the odd glamour game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midsblue Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Some will be quick to accusing me of kissing Corney's arse but he's telling us the painful truth again. Not great for fan morale admittedly but the quicker we take off the blue-tinted glasses the better. I thought he was the anti-Christ bleeding us dry but I sat back, reflecting on our demise and realised that he's a Chairman of limited pockets, cast adrift by his more affluent mates and who is genuinely committed to trying to deliver success for our club. He's had to sell to survive or enable us to strengthen, had mixed results with managerial and player appointments that ultimately haven't delivered promotion and the mixture of all this has led to disillusion of the fans resulting in reduced attendances and reduced income to enable us to strengthen. From time to time he's pulled rabbits out of hats with some signings, which I would hazard have come from his own pockets or after begging his mates to help. He genuinely cares and anybody who thinks he sold Baxter or Tarkowski early are blinkered! We HAD to sell! The players have gone to bigger or more successful clubs, turning their heads - and their agents heads - with a bigger wage or commissions. Equally he has a manager who suckles on the 'golden tit' (Jack Hayward wasn't wrong when he quoted this) demanding funds to strengthen, account for injuries etc. Where do you expect this money to come from? The £500,000 Corney is sitting on from cup runs or he's syphoned away from the booming attendances? We've had to cash in and if we didn't have to, do you think a wantaway player will give us their all in a side battling relegation or mid-table obscurity? The club has been for sale for ages but nobody's buying! Koukash? You're having a laugh - if he was serious then he would have bought us. Just after column inches. Back to Corney's article. Unfortunately we ARE a League 2 club punching above our weight. History, personal wealth of backers or infrastructure are factors but the acid test is how many turn up regularly week in, week out to home games. Look at average gates at each division and were mid-table League 2. Chicken and egg to increase attendance but if we were to get relegated and assuming we were battling play-offs or promotion then do you think attendance would drop below where we are now? I doubt it. Whatever :censored: is thrown, we're now at a hardcore level who will still turn up more through dedication than success! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Some will be quick to accusing me of kissing Corney's arse but he's telling us the painful truth again. Not great for fan morale admittedly but the quicker we take off the blue-tinted glasses the better. I thought he was the anti-Christ bleeding us dry but I sat back, reflecting on our demise and realised that he's a Chairman of limited pockets, cast adrift by his more affluent mates and who is genuinely committed to trying to deliver success for our club. He's had to sell to survive or enable us to strengthen, had mixed results with managerial and player appointments that ultimately haven't delivered promotion and the mixture of all this has led to disillusion of the fans resulting in reduced attendances and reduced income to enable us to strengthen. From time to time he's pulled rabbits out of hats with some signings, which I would hazard have come from his own pockets or after begging his mates to help. He genuinely cares and anybody who thinks he sold Baxter or Tarkowski early are blinkered! We HAD to sell! The players have gone to bigger or more successful clubs, turning their heads - and their agents heads - with a bigger wage or commissions. Equally he has a manager who suckles on the 'golden tit' (Jack Hayward wasn't wrong when he quoted this) demanding funds to strengthen, account for injuries etc. Where do you expect this money to come from? The £500,000 Corney is sitting on from cup runs or he's syphoned away from the booming attendances? We've had to cash in and if we didn't have to, do you think a wantaway player will give us their all in a side battling relegation or mid-table obscurity? The club has been for sale for ages but nobody's buying! Koukash? You're having a laugh - if he was serious then he would have bought us. Just after column inches. Back to Corney's article. Unfortunately we ARE a League 2 club punching above our weight. History, personal wealth of backers or infrastructure are factors but the acid test is how many turn up regularly week in, week out to home games. Look at average gates at each division and were mid-table League 2. Chicken and egg to increase attendance but if we were to get relegated and assuming we were battling play-offs or promotion then do you think attendance would drop below where we are now? I doubt it. Whatever :censored: is thrown, we're now at a hardcore level who will still turn up more through dedication than success! your entitled to your opinion same as me but the reality the tta have taken us one way and thats down and thats on every level we may well have gone under without them we may not im not disputing that but the route we are on now leads to where ? does he see getting us into a league that our crowds reflect as some sort of success ? dont think many fans expect to see us in any league other than the one we are in but at least give us a chance to be competitive or have a ground we can be proud of, unfortunately without either of these we will continue to fall away I just hope we dont do a stockport. Edited March 27, 2014 by yarddog73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 He's not really wrong is he? About us being a league two club? I would say he is. We haven't been at that level for over 40 years (albeit he's working on taking us there), so I object to Latics being described that way. Yes, we have small gates for our division. His appointment of a succession of :censored:ing awful managers have seen to that. Another whinge before another big game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Is time for him to :censored: off and let someone else have a crack... He has even failed to deliver this new stand. It sounds like its in all sorts of trouble and its already at best going to be completed with sweet FA inside it. Another fail. EDIT : To be fair another user said we might have signed contracts with some companies to offer some facilities. But the last article I read which I think was in the MEN was Corney said we have lost the £700k and it would be empty. Edited March 27, 2014 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_ktf Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Of course, a lot of what he says makes perfect sense. However my main frustration with Corney is that none of it is ever the fault of him or the other 2. Yes they bailed us out of the :censored: and make no bones, we would have folded......however knock down a stand and constantly promise the ground to be rebuilt and keep taking the promise away (not all in the hands of them, but other's have managed it... Brighton, Shrewsbury, Rotherham, Morecambe to name but a few). Then give us several years in a 3 sided :censored: hole, while selling the best talent for next to nowt??? Okay, I can except the loss of the likes of Baxter for such a paltry fee because of the circumstances. The sale of price for Tarky is just undefendable though? I mean Brentford for that price? Sorry Simon, I don't want you to sell us down the river but if you own a football team then you need to back it financially from time to time or the customers will get fed up. You continue to tell us you will walk away and give it to the fans but nobody wants that because it will fold. If you are serious about finding a buyer like you have always promised, then you need to start asking less for the land and the club and we can move on. Stop blaming the fans all the time and take some ownership for bad decisions you and your pals made and back us or sell us. I never thought I would see the day when little Rotherham were getting three times as many fans as us through the door. And before anyone has a go, I am still a season ticket holder who attends every home match (and several away) and pay what I can into Playershare. Agree with every word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Our average attendance in 2002/3 was 6699 (but we came fifth that year), our average attendance in 2003/4 (the year they took over) was 6566, in 2004/5 it was 6462. Now it's 4273. So a drop of over 2000. 2000 people paying £300 a year is £600,000 more than what we made from Tarky and Baxter combined. Ah but you have to take VAT off those sales figures so that is immediately down £100K, to £500k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I hope those guys who owned Chester and Widnes become interested again, can't be any worse than Corney right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Is time for him to :censored: off and let someone else have a crack... He has even failed to deliver this new stand. It sounds like its in all sorts of trouble and its already at best going to be completed with sweet FA inside it. Another fail. EDIT : To be fair another user said we might have signed contracts with some companies to offer some facilities. But the last article I read which I think was in the MEN was Corney said we have lost the £700k and it would be empty. To be fair to Corney here, when the plans were made we was able to get the £700k grant. It's not his fault that the rules have suddenly changed on how the money is handed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Ah but you have to take VAT off those sales figures so that is immediately down £100K, to £500k you could get a lee gregory for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 whats the 5.7 million the council was banding around as a contribution its still on wikipedia ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) To be fair to Corney here, when the plans were made we was able to get the £700k grant. It's not his fault that the rules have suddenly changed on how the money is handed out. Wasn't their fault when we had a global crash when they where just about to start the Oldham Arena... Wan't their fault when the council :censored:ed up with Failsworth... Wasn't their fault when the funding was withdrawn for the Tuck Shop.... They have some :censored: luck don't they.... Notice how its always someone else... Edited March 27, 2014 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 so all that was there fault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) so all that was there fault? No... It is clearly everyone else's fault that we now have a shell of stand being built which was option Z on everyone's list at best.. Keep up Senor! Edited March 27, 2014 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Is time for him to :censored: off and let someone else have a crack... He has even failed to deliver this new stand. It sounds like its in all sorts of trouble and its already at best going to be completed with sweet FA inside it. Another fail. EDIT : To be fair another user said we might have signed contracts with some companies to offer some facilities. But the last article I read which I think was in the MEN was Corney said we have lost the £700k and it would be empty. He hasn't failed to deliver the new stand, it's being built. Sounds like it's in all sorts of trouble? It would be empty? I'll stand corrected but other than saying there was a shortfall (beyond his control) I've seen nothing other than adding 2 and 2 together and nobody knowing the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So how would you have combated those set backs? Why the :censored: do you care anyway, as you keep telling us you don't go anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Roll up roll up to Boundary Park this Saturday, to watch plucky little Oldham go up against the might of Brentford... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 He hasn't failed to deliver the new stand, it's being built. Sounds like it's in all sorts of trouble? It would be empty? I'll stand corrected but other than saying there was a shortfall (beyond his control) I've seen nothing other than adding 2 and 2 together and nobody knowing the answer. Corney hopes to have the new North Stand in use by the start of next season: steelwork arrived on site this week and is already being erected. “Every day we are paying down bills and trying to get a bit more done,” he added. “There is a long way to go. It won’t be easy to finish it, but we will get there,” he said. He also dispelled claims that the playing budget had been hit by having to pay for the new stand currently under construction on the Broadway side of the ground, which has been hit by the Football Foundation withdrawing £700,000. “They changed their policies and that was a massive blow,” he said. “But we are still hoping the seats and the concourses will be open for fans at the start of next season. “Fans should see steelwork going up for the Brentford game next Saturday.” I am reading that as the funding to get it finished is still a fight and its going to be empty until we can find the missing money. Hey I can only go off what I read. Its not like we have a representative we can speak to about it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So how would you have combated those set backs? Do you think none attendance = stop caring ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Wasn't their fault when we had a global crash when they where just about to start the Oldham Arena... Wan't their fault when the council :censored:ed up with Failsworth... Wasn't their fault when the funding was withdrawn for the Tuck Shop.... They have some :censored: luck don't they.... Notice how its always someone else... Wasn't their fault that we've all had to suffer 12,000 repetitive, life draining posts all along exactly the same lines from oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I resent that... I did at least three posts that weren't repetitive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I am reading that as the funding to get it finished is still a fight and its going to be empty until we can find the missing money. Hey I can only go off what I read. Its not like we have a representative we can speak to about it all. He doesn't say it will be empty - he says the stand will be up for next season but won't be finished on the inside. What he doesn't say is this: He has even failed to deliver this new stand. It sounds like its in all sorts of trouble and its already at best going to be completed with sweet FA inside it. Another fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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