deyres42 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Honestly fair play to Bury and there owner, they have the opportunity to really go for it and they are doing. Unfortunately we don't have the same opportunity so we have to make do. 2 very different business plans, be interesting to see how it pans out. Personally and without wanting people to bite I think we are in trouble this year, the noises coming out of the club are filling me with dread Very little talk of player outgoings, possibly the most promising crop of youngsters we have had in a while and a pair of young bucks in charge who are mad keen to do well in Kelly and Holden. We still need a few players in yet but I'm pretty relaxed at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickjagger Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Who they have signed so far Pope and Clarke good for 15/20 goals between them. Peter Clarke could still play in the championship, and is the type of centre DK says he wants.... We have signed Lee Croft ( wow) and give a 2 year deal to the biggest loose cannon on the playing staff your right were going up.... So i take it from your response you are not overly inspired & optimistic then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm just wondering how good Clarke and Pope will be in 3 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 what was Pope record like last season. was he one of the league top scorers? I ask as I dont know at all but didnt hear too much about him You have to wonder if he is so bloody good why has he spent his career at Vale before a massive move to Bury? ex Man Uts youths are ten a penny nowadays. Is he all that or is it another OWTBs myth after one very good season in league 2?....2/3 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Scored 12 last season in 36 games, spent 13 games out with a knee injury but previous to that was player of the year two years running, his overall record of 69 goals in 196 for Vale over the past 4 years seems reasonable enough at this level and at 30 he is probably at the peak of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavageTheBeast Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The fact you go on their boards is a clear sign that you need to get a hobby... It was on a Facebook group which anyone can see by liking a page... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celliott83 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 My points that are worrying me are: - Playing 3412 and not looking at players who know that system is absurd, anyone who has played football knows you can't just adjust to something you have never done before! It doesn't work like that! - Smaller squad with more quality.....when have we had a season when we have had a consistent squad throughout a whole season and we all know where relying on Prem U21 players gets us! - A manager with no management experience has not worked for us, it just hasn't. Enthusiasm only gets you so far, you can't buy experience. - Everybody seems to be getting stronger, Scunthorpe, Chesterfield, Bury have all signed established league one players, I know it's early but surely they can't all be offering more money than us? Asked the question would I rather us be doing a Bury? The answer is I'd rather us have a better plan than what we have got, has the feel of a "let's hope for the best season" ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 So not that wonderful then, a fairly average record not great which shows why he is still at league 1? 3 year deal as well....meh not bothered. Turner could turn out to be much better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 what was Pope record like last season. was he one of the league top scorers? I ask as I dont know at all but didnt hear too much about him You have to wonder if he is so bloody good why has he spent his career at Vale before a massive move to Bury? ex Man Uts youths are ten a penny nowadays. Is he all that or is it another OWTBs myth after one very good season in league 2?....2/3 years ago You're right but I think people are passing more comment than they would otherwise as he's exactly what we need, experienced at this level and probably would have been affordable. His agent will have got him a few more quid than he would have got elsewhere with it being Bury I'd imagine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm just wondering how good Clarke and Pope will be in 3 years I'm sure Bury will be hoping to have moved them on and replaced them with Championship strikers by then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm just wondering how good Clarke and Pope will be in 3 years To be fair I doubt they are thinking that far ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Agree about Turner but will the manager have confidence to give him a run ? My problem with our forward players (many of them are the previous managers projects) is that they all seem to have issues be it injury, confidence or consistency, if the new man can nurture these players and get the best from them it could be the making of the team, I think we have a defence and midfield on its day that matches most in the division but a forward line that at times is lacking, this will be Kellys biggest challenge for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickjagger Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm just wondering how good Clarke and Pope will be in 3 years Does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm just wondering how good Clarke and Pope will be in 3 years To be fair I doubt they are thinking that far ahead. Exactly. They're signing finished articles from whom they know exactly what they're going to get. As opposed to us who seem to favour signing players (and managers) who might do well now/might develop/might get us a fee in 9 months/might stay fit. #buycheapbuytwice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 - A manager with no management experience has not worked for us, it just hasn't. Enthusiasm only gets you so far, you can't buy experience. - I'll hazard a guess that you are younger than me so apologies is this sounds a bit arrogant (it's really not meant to) but i think you need a history lesson! The two mist successful managers in the club's history (Frizzell & Royle) were both rookies. Since we got into this division we have had two cracks at the play-offs under Dowie (rookie) and Sheridan (rookie). The last two managers were both rookies. One delivered possibly our best cup result ever while the other looked for quite some time as if he could get us into the play-offs. The last three non-rookie managers were Talbot, Moore and Penney - none of whom achieved very much at all. I have a feeling I may have left someone out but if I have then I'm safe in concluding that he didn't achieve anything either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 With owners who are unwilling to do much more than balance the ins and outs people shouldn't be expecting anything more than a 'hope for the best' season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozzer Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 My points that are worrying me are: - Playing 3412 and not looking at players who know that system is absurd, anyone who has played football knows you can't just adjust to something you have never done before! It doesn't work like that! - Smaller squad with more quality.....when have we had a season when we have had a consistent squad throughout a whole season and we all know where relying on Prem U21 players gets us! - A manager with no management experience has not worked for us, it just hasn't. Enthusiasm only gets you so far, you can't buy experience. - Everybody seems to be getting stronger, Scunthorpe, Chesterfield, Bury have all signed established league one players, I know it's early but surely they can't all be offering more money than us? Asked the question would I rather us be doing a Bury? The answer is I'd rather us have a better plan than what we have got, has the feel of a "let's hope for the best season" ahead The best managers we've had over the last 40/50 years have been the ones with no managerial experience. Frizzell and Royle notably with honourable mentions to Dowie, Shez and Ritchie. The ones with managerial experience (Moore, Penney, Talbot, Warnock) were by and large failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickjagger Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'll hazard a guess that you are younger than me so apologies is this sounds a bit arrogant (it's really not meant to) but i think you need a history lesson! The two mist successful managers in the club's history (Frizzell & Royle) were both rookies. Since we got into this division we have had two cracks at the play-offs under Dowie (rookie) and Sheridan (rookie). The last two managers were both rookies. One delivered possibly our best cup result ever while the other looked for quite some time as if he could get us into the play-offs. The last three non-rookie managers were Talbot, Moore and Penney - none of whom achieved very much at all. I have a feeling I may have left someone out but if I have then I'm safe in concluding that he didn't achieve anything either! So are you in favour of a rookie manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celliott83 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 It depends on how old you are lol. Times have changed since the Frizzell/Royle days, anyone can now take there badges and be a football 'coach' As good as a cup run was I'd trade it in for a successful league season. Experience doesn't mean old, it means someone who has done the job before. Oh and I take it as you haven't questioned my other points you think they are valid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickjagger Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 With owners who are unwilling to do much more than balance the ins and outs people shouldn't be expecting anything more than a 'hope for the best' season. The new stand was the focus, going forward when the stand is finished and bringing in revenue, will more be mad available for player budget going forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The best managers we've had over the last 40/50 years have been the ones with no managerial experience. Frizzell and Royle notably with honourable mentions to Dowie, Shez and Ritchie. The ones with managerial experience (Moore, Penney, Talbot, Warnock) were by and large failures. They were also given far less time. Possibly because they were achieving no more or less than Johnson, Dickov etc.. but being paid more to not do so.......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisbrogan Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Its all a bit depressing really, I'd love something to really get excited about like that the fact Pope was shown around BP and has chosen Bury ahead of us is even more disheartening. Its bad enough Rochdale getting the better of us without Bury joining in. Kelly says he hadn't shown any interest in signing Pope and we weren't one of the clubs in for him. Hoping to have a couple more tied up before pre-season training starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 So, are all agreed then? Apart from Frizzell & Royle every manager - experienced or inexperienced - has been :censored:ing :censored:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickjagger Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Kelly says he hadn't shown any interest in signing Pope and we weren't one of the clubs in for him. Hoping to have a couple more tied up before pre-season training starts. Does Kelly say who has caught his eye then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The new stand was the focus, going forward when the stand is finished and bringing in revenue, will more be mad available for player budget going forward? My feeling is no, think it will be 2-3 years of Blitz and Corney filling their wheelbarrows with the extra cash and then they will be off into the sunset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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