losesome Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 At the end of November last year we were sitting 6th in the league. Playing nice attractive football and high levels of entertainment. Then Dean Holden joins us as coach and since then we have seen a steady decline in our team. Gone is the high pressing game that LJ instilled and slowly replaced with one up front , 2 holding defensive midfielders and a general decline in play leading to what can only best be described as boring and negative football. We have had 4 managers in that time and nothing has changed much each time , the only common denominator is DH himself. Is he the problem why we are playing such insipid football !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddogs Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Yeah it's all Dean Holdens fault we've been :censored: for the past 20 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dec666 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I don't think he changed a whole lot in Johnson's time, but we've been on the decline, playing awful football since the moment he began his dreadful reign as caretaker manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Correlation, not causation. You cannot pin this woeful form on one assistant manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Correlation, not causation. You cannot pin this woeful form on one assistant manager. He came in on the 14th November,we went on to win 1 game that calander year at Rochdale and took some heavy defeats in his first couple of months in the job, he did come in as first team coach so the way we have regressed during his time here in various roles should surely be open to scrutiny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 As much as I'd love to pick out a total scapegoat for the absolute embarrassment we've become in the last 12 months, I can't really pin it all at DH's door. The wheels fell off around the time of the Swindon match, when LJ was already an empty suit on the touchline, eyeing up a cave in Barnsley. I feel it started about the time of the Ched Evans nonsense and the rot has since set in. The players who were key to our good run last season are either no longer here (Daniel Johnston, Genseric Kusunga), injured (Jonathan Forte) or seem to be a pale shadow what we know they can be like (Danny P, Liam Kelly, Mike Jones, Winiesta etc.) I also don't think the calibre of the permanent or loan signings have been as good as we had back then, perhaps aside from Yeates or Rasulo. Fundamentally, I think the board have to admit a massive amount of responsibility for the mess after LJ :censored:ed off. We seemingly sat on our hands rather than make a positive statement once he left. Made the wrong choice by letting Holden take charge who clearly wasn't up to the task (Had we ran out of favours to ask of Tony P or something?). We followed that up with the most disastrous managerial appointments in our history and even moving quickly to fix that hasn't led to the burst of good form that a bold managerial change often leads to. I don't think many fans are sure that Dunn is the man to turn it around. Personally, I think we're :censored:ed this season. I'd love to be proved wrong but Dunn has set his stall on a dire 'not to lose' strategy. The best case scenario is a season like we had when Penney was here. :censored: that for a game of soldiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Can't we just accept we've been collectively :censored: from top to bottom of the club, and everyone should take responsibility. Blaming it all on one man is comically symplistic. Edited November 22, 2015 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Can't we just accept we've been collectively :censored: from top to bottom of the club, and everyone should take responsibility. Blaming it all on one man is comically symplistic. If we accept that whats going to change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 He came in on the 14th November,we went on to win 1 game that calander year at Rochdale and took some heavy defeats in his first couple of months in the job, he did come in as first team coach so the way we have regressed during his time here in various roles should surely be open to scrutiny? I agree with you that his role should come under a certain amount of scrutiny as he has been a constant in the terrible 12 months we've just had. But he's a fart in a hurricane in reality. There's been many more influential factors to our decline that have had much more of a negative effect than Holden has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kusunga_Is_God Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 The board is to blame. Point fingers at Holden all you want but if the board wanted to have seen us finish higher in the league they would have had someone lined up as soon as Johnson left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I blame SkySports. If they didn't pay their pundits so well, we'd have Dowie here now. Bastards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) In all seriousness though, the Ched Evans saga, followed quicky by LJ's departure and the boards lack of ambition killed last season off, this season is heading, or some would argue, has gone the same way. I'll take a 20th place finish now, with Dunn getting the boot if we bring in someone who is going to play some expansive, attacking football. Rather than this negative, no-risk strategy that is going to get us absolutely nowhere. Shambles. Edited November 23, 2015 by Latics_Fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Is yard dog arguing with himself? Funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 If we accept that whats going to change? At what point did I say nothing should change? Do you think getting rid of Dean Holden is going to solve all our problems? I think their needs to be more than one change right now and it goes beyond the team management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Nasty bully that Dean Holden, coming in, throwing his weight around, demanding the style of play is changed to ensure poor results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinevillawill Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Is it right to put the blame on one man? Probably not. But how he's managed to keep his job is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Is it right to put the blame on one man? Probably not. But how he's managed to keep his job is beyond me. Coaches don't generally get sacked do they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 There is a fundamental mistake here? We are picking a specific point in time and believing that represented accurately the clubs and teams ability over a period. Is the reality not that we had a glorious Sept and Oct in 2014 and that it is those 2 months that are out of step. We rallied to finish 15th the season before, we did not win in August and the rochdale win was our first and only win in a November. We know the story following the Rochdale .... .to use a point in time 12 months ago as a benchmark for where the team should be seems to me misleading and in denial of the real state of the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Quite right Mag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I also don't think the calibre of the permanent or loan signings have been as good as we had back then, perhaps aside from Yeates or Rasulo. Lafferty, Dummigan, Cornell , Fulton and possibly Cassidy aren't too shabby... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Lafferty, Dummigan, Cornell , Fulton and possibly Cassidy aren't too shabby... I agree we do have some useful players (allbeit most of them aren't ours), this makes it an even sadder indictment of the manager, that we are being out thought and out played by teams who are certainly no better than we are, but are set up better and are tactically more clued up than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Magister makes a decent point, although the period of form covered September, October, November and January, and part of February (before Johnson had his head turned) looking back at results. There was collateral damage from losing Kelly, to Evans, then to Johnson, which was the biggest factor. I think we were going somewhere under Johnson, which is a testament to him, not the board. Not to forget it's a lot harder to be good than it is to be bad. If we'd have gone at the same points per game as we had under Johnson for the remainder of the season after he'd gone, we'd have finished 7th, three points behind Chesterfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I agree we do have some useful players (allbeit most of them aren't ours), this makes it an even sadder indictment of the manager, that we are being out thought and out played by teams who are certainly no better than we are, but are set up better and are tactically more clued up than us. Deary me, the bloke has gone from playing on the Saturday to managing on the Monday - it would be more surprising if he did know it all at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 At the end of November last year we were sitting 6th in the league. Playing nice attractive football and high levels of entertainment. Then Dean Holden joins us as coach and since then we have seen a steady decline in our team. Gone is the high pressing game that LJ instilled and slowly replaced with one up front , 2 holding defensive midfielders and a general decline in play leading to what can only best be described as boring and negative football. We have had 4 managers in that time and nothing has changed much each time , the only common denominator is DH himself. Is he the problem why we are playing such insipid football !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ther are a lot more common denominators than Dean Holden. Whilst I cannot say if he is a good coach or not, there have been 3 rookie managers in that time. All poor appointments, by the same board. If the coach was such an important role, then Paul Murray was the coach at the time, and if he is that influenctial we wshould appoit Paul Murray as manager. But I doubt the coach is that influential. More likely (and results generally at Barnsley alos could be said to bear this out) is the trio of LJ, Tommy Wright and Paul Murray worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Deary me, the bloke has gone from playing on the Saturday to managing on the Monday - it would be more surprising if he did know it all at this stage. I know, it's not like he tried to get the job previosuly, did his qualifications, undermined the incumbent manager and said he could get us out of mire quicker than Joe Royle is it? Must have been a complete shock to him... Struggling to see how he is a much better option than Darren Kelly. Of course he needs time, like any of them did, but he is repeating this defensive-must-not-lose tactic that was the downfall of Holden and Kelly. Look at Gillingham, we went for them and very nearly came away with a result. Right now, it's not working. Time will tell. Edited November 23, 2015 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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