SavageTheBeast Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Our fans love to maon about everybody but which youngsters? Winchester is the only one I can think of but generally never about his football ability& never a hounding Considering 95% of the youngsetr produced go on to league 2 or below if they get critism its because they are not good enough. Coleman has potential but he gives me a heart attack every game at the moment . all our youngster are too small when they come through or have been for the last few years.Its the rerason we dont produce more 1st team footballer imo Tarky & Coleman the exception. Winchester ability has seen him through but he is very weak looking - the rest always seem 5ft 1' Chris Taylor, Neal Eardley, Winchester and philliskirk to name a few now Joel Coleman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Chris Taylor, Neal Eardley, Winchester and philliskirk to name a few now Joel Coleman Yeah forgot about Taylor & Eardley - What do you expect when you have talent like Lomax waiting in the wings? Philli's performance against us on Tuesday showed why people didnt like him, i forgot he was even playing. Did you notice in the last 10 minutes on Tuesday Winchester didnt want he ball anymore. He saw loads of it & then stopped making angles looking to make space from throw ins - I couldnt care if he was from Norway, very talented lad but his fitness is an issue. He never ever finishes a game strongly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Philliskirk and Winchester were as you'd expect. Philly started well, in the game a lot, some intelligent passes, closing down etc. then on 25 minutes disappeared and has yet to be found Winchester hardly lost the ball, had a decent effort from distance, worked the wing well with overlaps from Dummigan, cut in, then was blowing out of his arse with 15 minutes to go. It's never been as noticeable as Tuesday how lacking in stamina he can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I looked the other night, and Coleman's kept something like 8 clean sheets in his 25 league games. That's very good, no matter what level. People called Pogs a :censored: keeper and didn't he get the record of clean sheets in a season? 18 I think it was. That's the mentality some have about keepers sadly. Again, it comes down to the unwillingness of realising: 1) We are in League One 2) What we can afford 3) The team around them have been :censored: 4) There isn't a single keeper out there that doesn't drop the odd bollock or two every season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 People called Pogs a :censored: keeper and didn't he get the record of clean sheets in a season? 18 I think it was. That's the mentality some have about keepers sadly. Again, it comes down to the unwillingness of realising: 1) We are in League One 2) What we can afford 3) The team around them have been :censored: 4) There isn't a single keeper out there that doesn't drop the odd bollock or two every season Most Latics fans had Pogs down as a very decent keeper at this level. He was never going to play at the highest level but he was a more than adequate third tier keeper. Very few are 'hounding' Coleman, as far as I can see. Most are discussions his fairly obvious weaknesses, whilst acknowledging that he's young and has time to work on them and that he's the best choice we have available to us right now. What's with today's theme of making out that the vast majority of Latics fans treat our players so badly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Most Latics fans had Pogs down as a very decent keeper at this level. He was never going to play at the highest level but he was a more than adequate third tier keeper. Very few are 'hounding' Coleman, as far as I can see. Most are discussions his fairly obvious weaknesses, whilst acknowledging that he's young and has time to work on them and that he's the best choice we have available to us right now. What's with today's theme of making out that the vast majority of Latics fans treat our players so badly? There was plenty who thought Pogs wasn't a very good keeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshawlatic Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 There was plenty who thought Pogs wasn't a very good keeper. I think everyone thought he was a very good keeper for us initially. When he got pole axed by Littlejohn he seemed to lose a lot of confidence once he was back in the team and that's when people started to question him. Overall I liked him and he did OK in his second spell bar one game where Shez subbed him at half time (can't remember who it was against) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Overall I liked him and he did OK in his second spell bar one game where Shez subbed him at half time (can't remember who it was against) Cheltenham. Rightly so, too. He was Cheltenham's best player in that first half... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticsmarra Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 You don't see Coleman as a weakness . I do . It is about opinions. You ask how many other league one goalkeepers would have made those saves at Wigan.....23 is the answer you are looking for We have scored 11 in 15 when he plays. In part that is because 60% of the next action after Coleman has kicked it is a throw in. Wicketkeepers who drop catches don't always cause that game to be lost but teams who have wicketkeepers who drop catches will always struggle and the next dropped catch is always just round the corner......if our keeper was a wicketkeeper he would be very competent standing back but a liability when standing up to the wicket when genuine technique and ability is required. So the goalie is the fulcrum of the attack now,never heard that one. Because he has an above average clean sheet ratio we can't believe the stats and start saying he might look good statistically,but let's undermine his confidence until he can be truly bad.We can then say magestically "told you so". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Who said he was the fulcrum? He is one end of the see saw. The fulcrum is in the middle. . If one end of the see saw is too heavy the other end does not move. Ie if the keeper kicks the ball in touch or gives the ball away or moves it slowly the attack is comprised. The goalkeeper starts more periods of play than any other player. Think it through. We are not talking about Sunday league keepers here. This is professional football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I remember watching Kasper Schmeichel when he was a teenager and he was quite similar to Coleman - headstrong with some erratic handing. Coleman could well turn out to be a great asset if we stick with him while he's learning his trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Wow . Joel Coleman is going to play for the top of the premier league. ....weren't you BP the person who recognised that Coleman consistently fumbles the ball which bounces 3 yards in front of him? Are you drinking Chablis or a good merlot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Wow . Joel Coleman is going to play for the top of the premier league. ....weren't you BP the person who recognised that Coleman consistently fumbles the ball which bounces 3 yards in front of him? Are you drinking Chablis or a good merlot I said he was headstrong and does spill the ball ocasionally, exactly as Kasper Schmeichel did at the same age.He still has a lot of attributes though to go much higher in the game. We had a young keeper here many years ago who was similar and made a few blunders early in his career called Paul Gerrard, and he went on to do quite well. Edited February 18, 2016 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshawlatic Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I said he was headstrong and does spill the ball ocasionally, exactly as Kasper Schmeichel did at the same age. He still has a lot of attributes though to go much higher in the game. We had a young keeper here many years ago who was similar and made a few blunders early in his career called Paul Gerrard, and he went on to do quite well. I remember the "headstrong" Paul Gerrard, rushing out so far he was virtually in midfield and conceded one of 4 goals against Spurs as a result in our great escape season.... He then repeated the feat a few weeks later at home to Liverpool but Ian Rush over hit the chip and it went over the bar... David James had an even worse game and the rest is history! But Gerrard was a great success story of our youth setup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Not necessarily (revenge pedantry mode) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Who said he was the fulcrum? He is one end of the see saw. The fulcrum is in the middle. . If one end of the see saw is too heavy the other end does not move. Ie if the keeper kicks the ball in touch or gives the ball away or moves it slowly the attack is comprised. The goalkeeper starts more periods of play than any other player. Think it through. We are not talking about Sunday league keepers here. This is professional football I'm confused. I thought it was cricket earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Wow . Joel Coleman is going to play for the top of the premier league. Yes, that's exactly what he was saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Yes, that's exactly what he was saying.[/ Is this a new moderator rule then? We must take everything literally and not interpret , extrapolate or expand. That is the problem with censorship, the censors gradually become convinced that their interpretation is somehow of a higher more legitimate order than that of others If somebody wishes to quote an example it is perfectly legitimate to question the validity of the example by expanding the comparison to its logical conclusion and using satire to demonstrate the fancifulness of the comparison. We have now on this site got our goalkeeper being compared to the premiership leaders keeper, to a keeper who played 60 times for Scotland and to a keeper who was called into England squads Edited February 19, 2016 by Magister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Yes, that's exactly what he was saying.[/ Is this a new moderator rule then? We must take everything literally and not interpret , extrapolate or expand. That is the problem with censorship, the censors gradually become convinced that their interpretation is somehow of a higher more legitimate order than that of others If somebody wishes to quote an example it is perfectly legitimate to question the validity of the example by expanding the comparison to its logical conclusion and using satire to demonstrate the fancifulness of the comparison. We have now on this site got our goalkeeper being compared to the premiership leaders keeper, to a keeper who played 60 times for Scotland and to a keeper who was called into England squads Censorship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Is this a new moderator rule then? We must take everything literally and not interpret , extrapolate or expand. That is the problem with censorship, the censors gradually become convinced that their interpretation is somehow of a higher more legitimate order than that of others If somebody wishes to quote an example it is perfectly legitimate to question the validity of the example by expanding the comparison to its logical conclusion and using satire to demonstrate the fancifulness of the comparison. We have now on this site got our goalkeeper being compared to the premiership leaders keeper, to a keeper who played 60 times for Scotland and to a keeper who was called into England squads The point being made was that there are other players with similar issues as youngsters that have gone on to improve and do well. Not a direct like for like comparison. But I suspect you know this. Edited February 19, 2016 by nzlatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Yes Nz I know what BP is saying but my point is that using a comparator like Schmichael implies that Coleman will progress along the same lines....if not why not use jake Kean or Mark Oxley as the examples of error strewn keepers! Edited February 19, 2016 by Magister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Yes Nz I know what BP is saying but my point is that using a comparator like Schmichael implies that Coleman will progress along the same lines....if not why not use jake Kean or Mark Oxley as the examples of error strewn keepers! It implies that he could, not that he necessarily will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Yes Nz I know what BP is saying but my point is that using a comparator like Schmichael implies that Coleman will progress along the same lines....if not why not use jake Kean or Mark Oxley as the examples of error strewn keepers! You are a twister of words sir. An introducer of deliberate misinterpretation. It's not healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Never lost an argument that guy ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) He's being compared to some who also had faults in their younger days and went in to higher things, no one is saying he can be compared now to seasoned internationals. Edited February 19, 2016 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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