Magister Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 7 hours ago, youngen said: And yet most people had Fane as MOM The clue is that if I marathon runner and not a footballer is your MOM the chances are you will have lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngen Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 16 hours ago, unsworthlatic said: The fact they strolled through the middle of our midfield and the base of our diamond (Banks) was often elsewhere suggests Fane wasn't really to blame for our deficiencies in midfield. Fane was the only one of the 4 in midfield that would have been rated 7 out of 10, he was (trying to) play against a midfield 5 of Oxford on his own which you're then on a hiding to nothing. But Fanes whole football career is based on tackling, not his football ability. So why would you not have him as defensive mid? Humongous fuck up by Shez? And I did say last week 5 in midfield was required because of how shit we are in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworthlatic Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 2 hours ago, youngen said: But Fanes whole football career is based on tackling, not his football ability. So why would you not have him as defensive mid? Humongous fuck up by Shez? And I did say last week 5 in midfield was required because of how shit we are in there... I don't disagree with Fane being a defensive midfielder at all. What Shez probably thinks is that he has the power to drive forward 20/30 yards. In essence it's true, he does have the power, what he doesn't have is the ball control or technical ability (yet...could be coached) to do that and for me I would have him at the base of the diamond (if we have to play that formation) breaking up the play and serving it to the guys either side. At the moment I reckon we could just about get away with 2 in there so long as the wingers track too which to be fair McLaughlin and Tope do when playing out wide. However I doubt you can play a 2 with Banks in there. I know he's getting stick and we're all blaming him for being a 'scapegoat' but he was awful on Saturday. I like Fane's determination and endeavour, he isn't a great player by any stretch of the imagination but he's quite decent and extremely useful at what he does and can offer quite a bit to the team if he has the right players around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Fane ain't a defensive midfielder and never will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworthlatic Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 25 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Fane ain't a defensive midfielder and never will be. Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 1 minute ago, unsworthlatic said: Why not? From what I saw last year, the reason I wouldn't play Fane as a defensive midfielder is because his positional sense was rubbish. I remember teams cutting through the middle of our midfield easily when he was playing as the deepest midfielder. Fane is at his best when he is pressing higher up the pitch and pressuring the opposition when they're in possession. He needs a player who can sit deeper and take care of the ball to allow him to roam and get after the player on the ball. Banks can take care of the ball, unfortunately he's a complete wimp when it comes to the defensive side of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 The reason for the diamond, which isolated Banks in midfield, is the idea that Davies and Holloway (the non striking forwards of last season) can form a productive partnership up front. My pre-season optimism was dented when given a 'must score' situation normal non striking was resumed by Davies with a well directed but powder puff pass to their goal keeper. The dent was made a hole when the 'offside' goal was scored and we continued with plan A to no avail. So the good form with essentially these players, Wilson was a good deputy for Ripley in the match, has been jettisoned because the 3 5 2 (the 2 being a 1 1) will not work with Davies and Holloway (Holloway had a poor game because he was pushed wide by Davies inclusion so he didn't give us the battling hold up play of last year). I wouldn't have substituted Banks. I would have changed at half time to the 3 5 2 removing either Holloway/Davies for Fawns to play as number 10 behind the lone 'striker', with Banks, Green and Fane in midfield with Ryan on the right and Hunt on the left. I would also have removed Brian Wilson or Gerrard (probably the latter) and put either Stott or Edmundson in the back 3. The final change would have been Duffus for Holloway/Davies if the half time changes didn't produce a goal. My hope for tomorrow is that we win. My second hope is that the diamond is deployed with Holloway Davies up front and we get ripped to shreds in the hope that Burton do to us what Arsenal did for Chelsea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Ripley talks of his love for Latics: www.burtonalbionfc.co.uk/news/2017/august/0708-ripleyvideo/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworthlatic Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I agree Fane's positional sense has been questionable at best but what is that put down to? Is it due to him not understanding the dimensions of where he should be at any given position? Is it down to him believing he can go and cover a lot more ground than what is asked effectively? Or, certainly on Saturday he was trying to battle against 3 of their central midfielders on his own due to Green and Banks having poor games? Fane has been disciplined on occasion, mainly against Bury at home when he was seemingly told to break up the play and make an easy 5 yard pass (maybe not that easy to Fane haha) to the 'creators' in our midfield. Having a tough tackling defensive midfielder at the base of the diamond for me is crucial and that is one of the reasons I would love to see a 'John Welsh' type player in there who is well disciplined, good at organising and good at breaking up the play. Fane at present only seems to have one of those attributes but no reason why he can't be coached and taught to be a solid CDM who always keeps his position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddy14 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 It seems a case of selecting players to do what they are best at for the moment. McLaughlin is a good right winger with pace and ability to beat a defender, so why play him on the left of a diamond? We two big guys up front so they should be in the middle for crosses from McL rather than Amadi having to play right wing because no-one else does. Fane and Green are good at pressing and tackling but not distribution and Banks is probably the best distributor of a ball that we have in the team. He is not Green or Fane, so why does he play in front of the back four. All it means is that they all get stick for being poor at what they are asked to do rather than be testing the opposition with what they are best at. Only my opinion but it has been the same in all the friendlies and on Saturday. A team which has two strikers and no crosses other than diagonal punts up the pitch from the defence. Hope it gets sorted v Burton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 It was a midfield trapezium rather than a diamond. Good on Shez for trying something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngen Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 17 minutes ago, Chaddy14 said: It seems a case of selecting players to do what they are best at for the moment. McLaughlin is a good right winger with pace and ability to beat a defender, so why play him on the left of a diamond? We two big guys up front so they should be in the middle for crosses from McL rather than Amadi having to play right wing because no-one else does. Fane and Green are good at pressing and tackling but not distribution and Banks is probably the best distributor of a ball that we have in the team. He is not Green or Fane, so why does he play in front of the back four. All it means is that they all get stick for being poor at what they are asked to do rather than be testing the opposition with what they are best at. Only my opinion but it has been the same in all the friendlies and on Saturday. A team which has two strikers and no crosses other than diagonal punts up the pitch from the defence. Hope it gets sorted v Burton. The bit that got me was, other than Mclaughlin at times, not a single other player was near the strikers (or their box for that matter) who had numerous knock downs/tussles which defenders had poor clearances. There was absolutely no pressure on the second balls lumped up to the strikers. That for me should have been Banks, but apparently he was deeper so therefore should have been Fane/Green (who is far too old to do that role). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddy14 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Just now, youngen said: The bit that got me was, other than Mclaughlin at times, not a single other player was near the strikers (or their box for that matter) who had numerous knock downs/tussles which defenders had poor clearances. There was absolutely no pressure on the second balls lumped up to the strikers. That for me should have been Banks, but apparently he was deeper so therefore should have been Fane/Green (who is far too old to do that role). Spot on and as we all (should) admit, there is only Banks who has any idea of how to shoot when near goal. We saw examples of Fane, Green from in the 6 yard box and others, so I agree, why is Green the farthest forward when he would be better deployed in front of the back four? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Chaddy14 said: Spot on and as we all (should) admit, there is only Banks who has any idea of how to shoot when near goal. We saw examples of Fane, Green from in the 6 yard box and others, so I agree, why is Green the farthest forward when he would be better deployed in front of the back four? Very good point that, he's nippier than Fane or Banks and could scurry about there to good effect. Then again, would you want him misplacing passes in that area of the pitch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 So we're agreeing that Fane isn't positionally astute enough to play as a defensive midfielder, yet is nowhere near a good enough footballer to play in an advanced role? Is it not just a case that he's not good enough to be playing at this level, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands on Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 None of them are good enough to play out of position in a diamond but collectively they can defend. Shez is I suppose is looking for a way to score more goals but this clearly weakened our defence. As boring as not conceding is the way we played on Saturday was just as bad with the floated long ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Fane will run for days, win the ball and press, but he's not going to pick it up and ping it across field, he's not going to dictate play, all he does is run and win the ball. This is a good quality and I actually really like him, but In all honesty, a top side in this division would have a fane but who can also pass, shoot and dictate, and that is the difference. He can be coached to do this, but this is currently where he is at and once he is coached and gathers experience he could play at a higher level, but personally I question his ability on the ball, he just doesn't seem to have any at all. With two others who can pass and dictate he would be a lot better, with banks and green, maybe not so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, LightDN123 said: Fane will run for days, win the ball and press, but he's not going to pick it up and ping it across field, he's not going to dictate play, all he does is run and win the ball. This is a good quality and I actually really like him, but In all honesty, a top side in this division would have a fane but who can also pass, shoot and dictate, Or would have other players to do that so he wouldn't need to and could concentrate on what he's good at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightDN123 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Or would have other players to do that so he wouldn't need to and could concentrate on what he's good at Yeah very true, though I think you would be hard pressed to find a top team in this division who has such a limited central midfielder such as fane currently is. But I agree, he does run, press and win the ball back really well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Ripley and Palmer to start; http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/loan-middlesbrough-goalkeeper-connor-ripley-295583.amp On 06/08/2017 at 8:13 PM, oafcmetty said: Ditch the diamond for starters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1onheartNew Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 11 hours ago, HarryBosch said: It was a midfield trapezium rather than a diamond. Good on Shez for trying something different. Or maybe an icocoles triangle with an unecessary additional obtuse angle. Sorry, i meant Banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1onheartNew Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Game off apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laticfanatic1 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 3 hours ago, L1onheartNew said: Game off apparently How come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1onheartNew Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Said on twitter waterlogged pitch but i cant find it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1onheartNew Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 They have been known to re-post 3 yr old news though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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