tGWB Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 On 6/10/2022 at 6:45 PM, Dave_Og said: My poorly educated guess having done some H&S work (not much) over the years. There is no specific rule because the legislation is quite subjective and depends on the conclusions of risk assessments, which will have been carried out by you know who. Risk assessors can be over cautious hence some of the nonsense that the Dailly Mail blames on H&S having gone mad. I don't know if they still do but the H&SE used to publish an annual summary of ridiculous things they'd been blamed for despite the legislation saying nothing of the sort. Of course there are reasons other than caution why a risk assessor may come to what appears to be a perverse conclusion... On 6/10/2022 at 7:32 PM, Chaddyexile84 said: Barry does not quote or refer to legislation He keeps talking about the safety certificate Without seeing the certificate or the conditions of it I can't comment but he makes a number of questionable comments in his latest statement. He mentions the entire building having to adhere to fans producing tickets and being searched by police. As we have pointed out does thar extend to the gym and shop? No because they aren't where people are having a pint before the game instead of in the shit hole on the other side. He talks of PA and CCTV this stand has been open since 2016 and those issues existed then. Neither Barry, the police or the SAG closed the stand. He still refuses to answer any questions on the club blocking fire exits - I have emailed Steven Brown and the named safety officers and received no response. Barry is talking bollocks BTW can anyone tell me the last time they had a police officer touch them up on entry in any stand at BP? 12 hours ago, Pidge said: I was doing some reading last night about stadium safety and fire risk assessments. These are obviously separate and fire risk assessments are required to be done by the individual organisation operating the particular facility. So OEC would be responsible for the risk assessment of fire escape routes from their facility. I’m guessing there is a conflict between the security, ie controlling access to the ground, and the issue of unrestricted fire escape routes. Apologies for this but it is well intended and I have done my best to keep it short and simple An increasing number of organisations have implemented a 'Risk Register' A Risk Register is a controlled document which lists all the 'areas of concern' / 'potential risks' that could damage the well being and continuation of the business These areas of concern would typically include Financial Controls, Customers, Markets, IT, People / Staff Skills, and of course Safety The key categories are drilled down to lift out 'potential risks' in that category so there is typically many threads to each key category and workstreams allocated to reduce the likelihood of those risks Good practise would be to grade the categories by 'likelihood' of occurring from maybe 'highly unlikely' to 'certain' with the addition of grading by 'consequences' to the organisation from maybe 'minor' to 'catastrophic' People trying to quote some legislation to try and make some sense of the Clubs actions, are way off the mark as the Club can introduce almost any process or procedure they want to eliminate or reduce any risk they see as potentially damaging the business As a football club, Crowd Control must be a 'flashing red light' of concern for the club particularly after last seasons pitch invasions, flares on the pitch etc. From a distance my thoughts are that, the Club Board have been convinced to hammer down on crowd control, evidenced by the 200+ police at the Crawley game and more recently the closure of the North Stand It would seem that someone has graded the risk of serious crowd disorder as 'highly likely' with 'major' consequences to the club Fairly easy to manufacture when the Owner of the Club is not familiar with good practise I suspect there isn't even a workstream never mind a key category for 'Customers' as everything announced in the last couple of months is losing supporters in droves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basilrobbie Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 35 minutes ago, tGWB said: People trying to quote some legislation to try and make some sense of the Clubs actions, are way off the mark as the Club can introduce almost any process or procedure they want to eliminate or reduce any risk they see as potentially damaging the business As a football club, Crowd Control must be a 'flashing red light' of concern for the club particularly after last seasons pitch invasions, flares on the pitch etc. From a distance my thoughts are that, the Club Board have been convinced to hammer down on crowd control, evidenced by the 200+ police at the Crawley game and more recently the closure of the North Stand It would seem that someone has graded the risk of serious crowd disorder as 'highly likely' with 'major' consequences to the club Fairly easy to manufacture when the Owner of the Club is not familiar with good practise I suspect there isn't even a workstream never mind a key category for 'Customers' as everything announced in the last couple of months is losing supporters in droves It's a good post, apologies for editing it a bit for convenience. I think your point about mitigating risk is the key one, actually. I quite agree with you that crowd control must be a red risk for the Club hierarchy. But the sensible response would be to look for ways to reduce the potential for it - perhaps by having dialogue with the fans, being open about your intentions, and not picking fights with everyone almost on a daily basis. Instead of which they have reached for all the extreme options that would probably exacerbate the problem, if the majority of you weren't planning to boycott. I'd be tempted to stage regular protests outside the ground now. That is a police problem, and they will quickly get fed up of having to devote resources to cover them. It all adds extra pressure to the people making decisions inside the club if you can draw other agencies in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 1 hour ago, tGWB said: Apologies for this but it is well intended and I have done my best to keep it short and simple An increasing number of organisations have implemented a 'Risk Register' A Risk Register is a controlled document which lists all the 'areas of concern' / 'potential risks' that could damage the well being and continuation of the business These areas of concern would typically include Financial Controls, Customers, Markets, IT, People / Staff Skills, and of course Safety The key categories are drilled down to lift out 'potential risks' in that category so there is typically many threads to each key category and workstreams allocated to reduce the likelihood of those risks Good practise would be to grade the categories by 'likelihood' of occurring form maybe 'highly unlikely' to 'certain' with the addition of grading by 'consequences' to the organisation from maybe 'minor' to 'catastrophic' People trying to quote some legislation to try and make some sense of the Clubs actions, are way off the mark as the Club can introduce almost any process or procedure they want to eliminate or reduce any risk they see as potentially damaging the business As a football club, Crowd Control must be a 'flashing red light' of concern for the club particularly after last seasons pitch invasions, flares on the pitch etc. From a distance my thoughts are that, the Club Board have been convinced to hammer down on crowd control, evidenced by the 200+ police at the Crawley game and more recently the closure of the North Stand It would seem that someone has graded the risk of serious crowd disorder as 'highly likely' with 'major' consequences to the club Fairly easy to manufacture when the Owner of the Club is not familiar with good practise I suspect there isn't even a workstream never mind a key category for 'Customers' as everything announced in the last couple of months is losing supporters in droves It's pretty much what I do for a living. The key thing is getting people from all areas of the business to be open about risks to avoid just making it a tick box exercise. The chances of best practice being reality at Latics are precisely zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 4 hours ago, Chaddyexile84 said: Do you ever get searched or asked for a ticket when using the gym? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Just now, Lee Sinnott said: Edited cos they'll probably try and shut the gym down on matchdays... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 17 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said: Edited cos they'll probably try and shut the gym down on matchdays... Thanks I have emailed Ronseal but he ignores all other communications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 2 hours ago, basilrobbie said: It's a good post, apologies for editing it a bit for convenience. I think your point about mitigating risk is the key one, actually. I quite agree with you that crowd control must be a red risk for the Club hierarchy. But the sensible response would be to look for ways to reduce the potential for it - perhaps by having dialogue with the fans, being open about your intentions, and not picking fights with everyone almost on a daily basis. Instead of which they have reached for all the extreme options that would probably exacerbate the problem, if the majority of you weren't planning to boycott. I'd be tempted to stage regular protests outside the ground now. That is a police problem, and they will quickly get fed up of having to devote resources to cover them. It all adds extra pressure to the people making decisions inside the club if you can draw other agencies in. Yes of course the risk of crowd disturbances could be significantly reduced with better dialogue with the fans and main supporter groups The Club doesnt seem to have that in its skillset though sadly, preferring to opt for trench warfare against it own customers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Dave_Og said: It's pretty much what I do for a living. The key thing is getting people from all areas of the business to be open about risks to avoid just making it a tick box exercise. The chances of best practice being reality at Latics are precisely zero. And a sensible approach to grading the risk Easy to set extreme risk if you have a score to settle and an inexperienced Owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 14 hours ago, tGWB said: Yes of course the risk of crowd disturbances could be significantly reduced with better dialogue with the fans and main supporter groups The Club doesnt seem to have that in its skillset though sadly, preferring to opt for trench warfare against it own customers OMBC were re-constituiting themselves a good 12 months ago, to allow fan representation on SAG team. An idea that came from an FSA article I read It was a start to understand and improve match day experience at BP. Also a FOI request now with the commisioner to get hold if historic SAG meeting notes so fans can understand what has led to what decisions....and for OASF to see if anything came out on condition of BP for any purchase too. Not heard if OASF have had a ruling yet on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 2 hours ago, underdog said: OMBC were re-constituiting themselves a good 12 months ago, to allow fan representation on SAG team. An idea that came from an FSA article I read It was a start to understand and improve match day experience at BP. Also a FOI request now with the commisioner to get hold if historic SAG meeting notes so fans can understand what has led to what decisions....and for OASF to see if anything came out on condition of BP for any purchase too. Not heard if OASF have had a ruling yet on Sadly there is absolutely no chance of any meaningful dialogue between the Club and the main supporter groups, never mind sitting alongside each other to improve our supporters match day experience The OASF, the PtB and OEC/FLG are intent on ridding the Club of the Lemsagams so there wasn't really much of a chance of negotiations, and that was before the return of Barry Owen WW1 trench warfare until the Lemsagams leave or until we slip into administration I'm afraid The longer this drags on, the more supporters we lose and many forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 39 minutes ago, tGWB said: Sadly there is absolutely no chance of any meaningful dialogue between the Club and the main supporter groups, never mind sitting alongside each other to improve our supporters match day experience The OASF, the PtB and OEC/FLG are intent on ridding the Club of the Lemsagams so there wasn't really much of a chance of negotiations, and that was before the return of Barry Owen WW1 trench warfare until the Lemsagams leave or until we slip into administration I'm afraid The longer this drags on, the more supporters we lose and many forever Agreed and unfortunately each group has backed itself in to a corner, too many egos and dick wagging in my opinion. Only winner is shitpeas whose all over it like a tramp on chips, divide and conquer at it's finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 59 minutes ago, tGWB said: Sadly there is absolutely no chance of any meaningful dialogue between the Club and the main supporter groups, never mind sitting alongside each other to improve our supporters match day experience The OASF, the PtB and OEC/FLG are intent on ridding the Club of the Lemsagams so there wasn't really much of a chance of negotiations, and that was before the return of Barry Owen WW1 trench warfare until the Lemsagams leave or until we slip into administration I'm afraid The longer this drags on, the more supporters we lose and many forever 21 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: Agreed and unfortunately each group has backed itself in to a corner, too many egos and dick wagging in my opinion. Only winner is shitpeas whose all over it like a tramp on chips, divide and conquer at it's finest. Both sounding like your playing "It's all the fans fault" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said: Both sounding like your playing "It's all the fans fault" Thats a really odd take from those posts Chaddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, tGWB said: Thats a really odd take from those posts Chaddy There is no chance of dialogue with the club because they have shown time and time again they have no interest in such dialogue and are, to put it bluntly twats. The supporters groups tried the nice approach and got ignored You say that are intent on getting rid of the Lenmies as if that was their play from day 1 Yardie openly states "dick waving" I don't think Matt Dean or any of the others have been waving dicks unlike that fat bald parasite and the flat cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidge Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, tGWB said: Thats a really odd take from those posts Chaddy I took similar meaning as Chaddy. The owner (and Bazza) really do not care what fans think or want. That’s why there is no negotiating with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said: There is no chance of dialogue with the club because they have shown time and time again they have no interest in such dialogue and are, to put it bluntly twats. The supporters groups tried the nice approach and got ignored You say that are intent on getting rid of the Lenmies as if that was their play from day 1 Yardie openly states "dick waving" I don't think Matt Dean or any of the others have been waving dicks unlike that fat bald parasite and the flat cap Made me chuckle that Chaddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, Pidge said: I took similar meaning as Chaddy. The owner (and Bazza) really do not care what fans think or want. That’s why there is no negotiating with them. Whilst I agree with your point, do you really think that if Barry Owen hadnt returned that our supporter groups would be open to negotiating on improving our supporters match day experience with the Lemsagams For me, that boat sailed months ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidge Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 The owner really believes fans should just turn up on match days. He just believes if the results improve more with turn up. Maybe that is why he surrounds himself with people who think the same. While this concept is true, more will turn up if results improve, but the club could be still buzzing during times of poor results if the fan experience was improved. If fans felt welcome and looked after. Let’s face it, most of our recent history has been mediocre results and looking after fans to maintain the size of match day crowds has been much more important, but perversely ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 31 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said: Both sounding like your playing "It's all the fans fault" Not at all, just looking at it pragmatically and working out what the plan is, 50k raised in how many months? Wouldn't even cover the X's if we wanted to go to the table, Blitz wants 100x that amount as a minimum, meanwhile Rome burns down and shitpeas has taken over the asylum and is running in a way that Kim Jong-un would be proud. If there is no negotiating how is there going to be progress?, we could effectively buy the ground tomorrow and Abdallah is still well within his rights to hold on to the football club until someone pays him what he wants, if it makes people feel any better they can tell him it's worthless but I don't think that bothers him in the slightest if anything I think it makes him more determined to hang on to it he will just allow Owen to run it till someone comes in and gives him what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, yarddog73 said: Not at all, just looking at it pragmatically and working out what the plan is, 50k raised in how many months? Wouldn't even cover the X's if we wanted to go to the table, Blitz wants 100x that amount as a minimum, meanwhile Rome burns down and shitpeas has taken over the asylum and is running in a way that Kim Jong-un would be proud. If there is no negotiating how is there going to be progress?, we could effectively buy the ground tomorrow and Abdallah is still well within his rights to hold on to the football club until someone pays him what he wants, if it makes people feel any better they can tell him it's worthless but I don't think that bothers him in the slightest if anything I think it makes him more determined to hang on to it he will just allow Owen to run it till someone comes in and gives him what he wants. Some people just want to watch the world burn and can not be negotiated with. Vlad The Impaler Henry VIII Napoleon Hitler Putin Al, Mo And Bazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Pidge said: The owner really believes fans should just turn up on match days. He just believes if the results improve more with turn up. Maybe that is why he surrounds himself with people who think the same. While this concept is true, more will turn up if results improve, but the club could be still buzzing during times of poor results if the fan experience was improved. If fans felt welcome and looked after. Let’s face it, most of our recent history has been mediocre results and looking after fans to maintain the size of match day crowds has been much more important, but perversely ignored. Have little argument with that Pidge Our lot bought half season tickets to welcome home Shez and other than our magnificent Athleticos it was a pretty uninspiring way to spend our time We wont be going back to BP while the Lemsagams and Barry Owen continue to treat our supporters young and old with the contempt they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Chaddyexile84 said: Some people just want to watch the world burn and can not be negotiated with. Vlad The Impaler Henry VIII Napoleon Hitler Putin Al, Mo And Bazza Bonkers that Chaddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 1 minute ago, tGWB said: Bonkers that Chaddy Get those 3 round a table and prove me wrong Or at least get them in one place for a flame thrower to take them out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said: Get those 3 round a table and prove me wrong Or at least get them in one place for a flame thrower to take them out Destructive they may well be but am not aware of them chucking innocents alive into ovens and starting a war in which 66million people lost their lives Could have missed it though maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 1 minute ago, tGWB said: Destructive they may well be but am not aware of them chucking innocents alive into ovens and starting a war in which 66million people lost their lives Could have missed it though maybe Satire lost on you I guess The point is some people can not be reasoned with "Chucking people into ovens" is pretty tasteless too if you are virtue signalling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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