PeteG Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, deyres42 said: Are people losing their marbles here? We've played three games not 30, all without his gun midfielder. If we are still 17th come October time then of course it is game over for him. Budgets help but you've still got to get the right ones in and they've got to perform, you said yourself we are not exactly breaking the bank for most of them. We didn't appoint Unsworth in the summer, he's not had 3 games, I wish people would stop with this. He's been here nearly 12 months and was sat in the stands at the start of last season just waiting for them to get rid of Shez, which is why Shez wanted something in his contract regarding his pay off once the takeover was complete because even he knew they wanted to bring their own man in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 Firstly to be clear I'd get rid of Unsworth TODAY if I had a choice. But OK, so if we agree to give him a bit more time...10 games seems the number of games most are saying he should be judged on....So let's give him 10 more games which takes us to the end of September. So we are now 13 games in, what's an acceptable points total and league position? In 21/22 Stockport won the league with 94 points (average just over 2 points per game), and Chestefield finished 7th on 74 points (just over 1.6 points per game) I'd assume this seasons points requirement could be similar. So to win the league we should be on around 26 points mimimum To be in the top 7 we should be on around 21 points minimum Our Next 10 games are Chesterfield A Borham Wood A Solihull H Gateshead A Dorking H Bromley A York H Oxford City H Kidderminster A Wealdstone A We need 23 points from these to be around top spot (unlikely) We need 18 points from these to be around the top 7 (realistic?) Hopefully Frank and Co are thinking along the same lines, and if he falls short of the 18 point mark....which he will, then they have to pull the trigger, to give us a chance of getting the right man in to salvage the season. Personally I think under his leadership we will be lucky to get 14 points maximum, and to be sitting on 17 points from 13 games with the investment in the team, and players we will have is inexcusable. If we reach these targets then I'm happy to apologise, eat humble pie and let him crack on until Christmas as I want the same as everyone else....to get back into the EFL. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlemoor Lad Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, deyres42 said: If the manager is so bad then why are you expecting anything? If a manager's that bad, Why on earth would he be taken on in the first place? But saying that, he wasn't a manager at all, this makes it even more of a gamble. Demotion to the boot room if this continues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, PeteG said: We didn't appoint Unsworth in the summer, he's not had 3 games, I wish people would stop with this. He's been here nearly 12 months and was sat in the stands at the start of last season just waiting for them to get rid of Shez, which is why Shez wanted something in his contract regarding his pay off once the takeover was complete because even he knew they wanted to bring their own man in. If the current squad and everything around it was in place from day 1 then that point might have some relevance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 remind me again the last time a manager started and ended a season in charge of us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Monty Burns said: remind me again the last time a manager started and ended a season in charge of us Lee Johnson, a decade ago 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 22 minutes ago, Monty Burns said: remind me again the last time a manager started and ended a season in charge of us I get what you are saying and normally i'm all for giving managers time. I really think they need 2 years to build a side but during that time you have to see progress. We can't just keep Unsworth regardless for the sake of stability, we need to give it a real go this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 3 hours ago, deyres42 said: If the current squad and everything around it was in place from day 1 then that point might have some relevance. Fair point, but it improved at a rate of knots and Unsworth doesn't seem to have progressed with it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 17 minutes ago, JoeP said: Fair point, but it improved at a rate of knots and Unsworth doesn't seem to have progressed with it... Seems like sticking plaster at the moment which can't stem the bleeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 46 minutes ago, JoeP said: Fair point, but it improved at a rate of knots and Unsworth doesn't seem to have progressed with it... Not sure I would describe 11 months as a rate of knots. And we seem to airbrushing out results again from last season when things did, demonstrably, improve... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 minute ago, deyres42 said: Not sure I would describe 11 months as a rate of knots. And we seem to airbrushing out results again from last season when things did, demonstrably, improve... I mean the improvements to the club. The current squad and everything around it improved at a rate of knots. It's a completely different club to when he took over. Unsurprisingly, I'm not as convinced as you that the run from January is a massive sign he's up to task. Most of the games stank and largely revolved around hoping the opposition would miss chances or Norman would play a blinder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, JoeP said: I mean the improvements to the club. The current squad and everything around it improved at a rate of knots. It's a completely different club to when he took over. Unsurprisingly, I'm not as convinced as you that the run from January is a massive sign he's up to task. Most of the games stank and largely revolved around hoping the opposition would miss chances or Norman would play a blinder... As well as playing sides towards the end of the season with little to play for. Sorry, despite the improvement from New Year (It couldn't have got any worse let's face it) i'm judging him on this season, he's got no credit in the bank and if we lose the next 2 i would want him gone by 6pm after the Boreham Wood game. In fact, if he had any respect for his mates the Royles, he would spare them a difficult decision and resign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, PeteG said: As well as playing sides towards the end of the season with little to play for. Sorry, despite the improvement from New Year (It couldn't have got any worse let's face it) i'm judging him on this season, he's got no credit in the bank and if we lose the next 2 i would want him gone by 6pm after the Boreham Wood game. In fact, if he had any respect for his mates the Royles, he would spare them a difficult decision and resign So you are happy to disregard 25 games worth of form from last season but 5 games worth from this one means everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 4 hours ago, Londonboy said: Firstly to be clear I'd get rid of Unsworth TODAY if I had a choice. But OK, so if we agree to give him a bit more time...10 games seems the number of games most are saying he should be judged on....So let's give him 10 more games which takes us to the end of September. So we are now 13 games in, what's an acceptable points total and league position? In 21/22 Stockport won the league with 94 points (average just over 2 points per game), and Chestefield finished 7th on 74 points (just over 1.6 points per game) Last season Wrexham got a record points total across all top 5 English divisions. They had 4, yes 4 points after 3 games. Notts County who got the 2nd best points total ever had 5. The season before Stockport also had 4 points after 3 games. The last time we made the playoffs we had 3 points after 3 games and only 4 after 6 games. (Think that was covered on the podcast recently). The points after X games* doesn't matter, the points after 46 games does. *Unless the season is curtailed thanks to another pandemic. I'm indifferent to sacking managers in the main as we won't progress if we do. Unsworth had turned me indifferent by the home defeat to Halifax last season. That I hope was our rock bottom point. If this season it looks like not being our rock bottom point he can go, that isn't the case currently. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, rudemedic said: Last season Wrexham got a record points total across all top 5 English divisions. They had 4, yes 4 points after 3 games. Notts County who got the 2nd best points total ever had 5. The season before Stockport also had 4 points after 3 games. The last time we made the playoffs we had 3 points after 3 games and only 4 after 6 games. (Think that was covered on the podcast recently). The points after X games* doesn't matter, the points after 46 games does. *Unless the season is curtailed thanks to another pandemic. I'm indifferent to sacking managers in the main as we won't progress if we do. Unsworth had turned me indifferent by the home defeat to Halifax last season. That I hope was our rock bottom point. If this season it looks like not being our rock bottom point he can go, that isn't the case currently. Interesting stats that. I really wouldn't be surprised if Saturday is the seasons low point and it gets better from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, rudemedic said: Last season Wrexham got a record points total across all top 5 English divisions. They had 4, yes 4 points after 3 games. Notts County who got the 2nd best points total ever had 5. The season before Stockport also had 4 points after 3 games. Hadn't Wrexham made the play-offs the previous season (and the FA Trophy final, if I remember rightly..) and had a manager who had a reputation for knowing what he was doing? Also hadn't Stockport just come up from NLN? It would be very harsh to sack managers after a few games, after such a good season previously. I don't doubt there are plenty of examples of teams that have made stirring comebacks to win promotion in a season, but the fact is - at the moment - Unsworth has yet to show any sign is his tenure that he's the man to lead a well-funded team that should be fighting for promotion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 40 minutes ago, deyres42 said: So you are happy to disregard 25 games worth of form from last season but 5 games worth from this one means everything? Indeed I am. He had more than 25 games and even the games we won didn't make me think he's the right man long term. You can back Unsworth all you want but this league is absolutely rubbish and there are far better managers out there that would jump at the opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 23 minutes ago, JoeP said: Hadn't Wrexham made the play-offs the previous season (and the FA Trophy final, if I remember rightly..) and had a manager who had a reputation for knowing what he was doing? Also hadn't Stockport just come up from NLN? It would be very harsh to sack managers after a few games, after such a good season previously. I don't doubt there are plenty of examples of teams that have made stirring comebacks to win promotion in a season, but the fact is - at the moment - Unsworth has yet to show any sign is his tenure that he's the man to lead a well-funded team that should be fighting for promotion... Exactly this, I saw someone post our start to the 87/88 season the other day as evidence for keeping Unsworth. The poster wasn't even born then and obviously forgot we had just come off a season where we never out of the top 3 of what is now the Championship and only lost on away goals to Leeds in the first year the play-offs were introduced of we would have been playing in the top flight then. Royle had earned the time and we could all see then that the side would produce, we were playing some fantastic stuff and just needed the consistency or the addition of 1 or 2 players to make us a top side. The cup runs gave us the finance to finally get the final pieces of the jigsaw with the likes of Jobson, Halle etc. The comparison of Unsworth and Royle is like comparing a Ferrari to a Skoda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 I will add to my last post, we were in the Championship then and in many respects punching above our weight in terms of resources and finance available. We were everyone's favourite underdogs because we feared nobody. If you had said to me back then, one day we will set up with 5 CB's at Southend for fear of getting a hiding i'd have had you locked up. I know times have changed and i'm realistic enough to accept where we are but i will never accept a manager who sets up not to lose against the likes of Bromley or whoever else it is in this division given the resources that have been handed to him. Get a manager in who wants to get about these teams and i'm certain we won't be far away come May. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, PeteG said: Exactly this, I saw someone post our start to the 87/88 season the other day as evidence for keeping Unsworth. The poster wasn't even born then and obviously forgot we had just come off a season where we never out of the top 3 of what is now the Championship and only lost on away goals to Leeds in the first year the play-offs were introduced of we would have been playing in the top flight then. Royle had earned the time and we could all see then that the side would produce, we were playing some fantastic stuff and just needed the consistency or the addition of 1 or 2 players to make us a top side. The cup runs gave us the finance to finally get the final pieces of the jigsaw with the likes of Jobson, Halle etc. The comparison of Unsworth and Royle is like comparing a Ferrari to a Skoda Different time, different division, different expectations. Unsworth's been given one of the best budget's in league while Royle was told to sell and had bailiffs measuring up the desk in his office (as the story goes..). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, JoeP said: Different time, different division, different expectations. Unsworth's been given one of the best budget's in league while Royle was told to sell and had bailiffs measuring up the desk in his office (as the story goes..). Totally and i'm not one for looking back but the comparison made my blood boil. I never ever saw a Joe Royle side set up not to lose and it another reason why I can't comprehend how Joe can sit there and watch this unless he's protecting his son of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, JoeP said: Hadn't Wrexham made the play-offs the previous season (and the FA Trophy final, if I remember rightly..) and had a manager who had a reputation for knowing what he was doing? Also hadn't Stockport just come up from NLN? It would be very harsh to sack managers after a few games, after such a good season previously. I don't doubt there are plenty of examples of teams that have made stirring comebacks to win promotion in a season, but the fact is - at the moment - Unsworth has yet to show any sign is his tenure that he's the man to lead a well-funded team that should be fighting for promotion... Missed my point. So I shall make it again. The points after 3 games does NOT matter. The points after 46 games does In 15 years time or even 15 days time is anyone going to remember that Wrexham had 4 points after 3 games last season. But I bet loads will be able to recall that Wrexham won the National League last season. FWIW Stockport hadn't just come up from the NLN either. They didn't have back to back promotions. (Took them 3 years). If we had spluttered into our first top half finish for ages then yes I might say Unsworth should be at risk. We didn't, we had a playoff level record after Christmas last season. We were 2nd bottom in December last season. Our game against Torquay was televised because it looked like a relegation 6-pointer in December. David Unsworth has shown he can turn a season around, he did it last season. That gives him some leeway to show he can do it again, but as the season is only 3 games old it isn't in need of turning around just yet. I fully expect us to come strong as the season goes on, our squad is very strong. If Southend had 3 injuries then I wouldn't be surprised to read that Kevin Maher is putting his boots on. Doubly so if all 3 injuries are in midfield. We may not get automatic promotion but there is a reason why the bookies still have us as 4/6 (best odds - 2nd favourites) for a playoff spot. A playoff spot is pushing for promotion. If we are struggling by the end of October then I wouldn't be surprised to find DU gone or on the verge of going. This is mid-August plenty of time and 43 games left. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, rudemedic said: Missed my point. So I shall make it again. The points after 3 games does NOT matter. The points after 46 games does In 15 years time or even 15 days time is anyone going to remember that Wrexham had 4 points after 3 games last season. But I bet loads will be able to recall that Wrexham won the National League last season. FWIW Stockport hadn't just come up from the NLN either. They didn't have back to back promotions. (Took them 3 years). If we had spluttered into our first top half finish for ages then yes I might say Unsworth should be at risk. We didn't, we had a playoff level record after Christmas last season. We were 2nd bottom in December last season. Our game against Torquay was televised because it looked like a relegation 6-pointer in December. David Unsworth has shown he can turn a season around, he did it last season. That gives him some leeway to show he can do it again, but as the season is only 3 games old it isn't in need of turning around just yet. I fully expect us to come strong as the season goes on, our squad is very strong. If Southend had 3 injuries then I wouldn't be surprised to read that Kevin Maher is putting his boots on. Doubly so if all 3 injuries are in midfield. We may not get automatic promotion but there is a reason why the bookies still have us as 4/6 (best odds - 2nd favourites) for a playoff spot. A playoff spot is pushing for promotion. If we are struggling by the end of October then I wouldn't be surprised to find DU gone or on the verge of going. This is mid-August plenty of time and 43 games left. And who took us to 2nd bottom last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, PeteG said: And who took us to 2nd bottom last season? Same guy who took us back into the top half once he'd jettisoned a lot of the trash brought in by the previous manager... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteG Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 minute ago, deyres42 said: Same guy who took us back into the top half once he'd jettisoned a lot of the trash brought in by the previous manager... the previous manager who had us sat close to mid-table who brought in Fondop who's goals saved Unsworths arse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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