razza699 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Ive been forwarded this link by a collegue of mine at work who unfortunately was at the Hillsborough disaster and lost a close family member that day . Just doing my bit as a football fan and friend by forwarding this link on here .No doubt it affected many on here in more ways than on so if you take time to sign it that would be great. https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Ive been forwarded this link by a collegue of mine at work who unfortunately was at the Hillsborough disaster and lost a close family member that day . Just doing my bit as a football fan and friend by forwarding this link on here .No doubt it affected many on here in more ways than on so if you take time to sign it that would be great. https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2199 Added my name, think this is very important and it's about time some justice came out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Ive been forwarded this link by a collegue of mine at work who unfortunately was at the Hillsborough disaster and lost a close family member that day . Just doing my bit as a football fan and friend by forwarding this link on here .No doubt it affected many on here in more ways than on so if you take time to sign it that would be great. https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2199 Signed it! I will never forget that horrible day when those football supporters lost their lives and would urge everone who can to sign! My brothers mate was there as he was a Liverpool season ticket holder. He and his dad thankfully took the one of the penns to the side of Leppings Lane end rather than the central one where most of the horrific incidents took place and that may have saved his life! I will also never forget the following Saturday when we played away at Hull and the mood amongst everybody there was almost like there wasn't a game going on with pretty much everyone reflecting back to the sad events from the week before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 This gives me an idea of a safe standing epetition for football grounds to at least get it debated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Cheers for posting the link on here and on Twitter Razza. Got sent a link to this story this morning,it's a horrible example of how badly the disaster still affects some people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkenyonqfc2 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Cheers for posting the link on here and on Twitter Razza. Got sent a link to this story this morning,it's a horrible example of how badly the disaster still affects some people. no probs ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 100,000 signatures now gathered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 100,000 signatures now gathered. I was at Hillsborough that day and I signed the petition. Let's see how the politicians deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Signed. It's got to come out eventually. The government will surely struggle to keep it under wraps, in the face of public opinion and the Freedom of Information Act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Apparently the terms of reference for the panel reviewing the documentation and deciding what should be made public exclude "information indicating the views of ministers, where release would prejudice the convention of Cabinet collective responsibility". This is why the pressure needs to be kept up. They will fight tooth and nail to keep anything potentially incriminating hidden. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14623185 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 It'll come out under the 30 year rule anyway. The truth is known by anybody with an ounce of common sense. If somebody has something to gain by information not being released then that is rather a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Bloody hell, it was a horrifying event but it was 21/22 years ago. Even if somebody did cock up, what's to be gained by a public-hanging? Nobody intended any malice, and fairly drastic measures were quickly taken to prevent a reoccurence. Condolences to the families always, but case closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Bloody hell, it was a horrifying event but it was 21/22 years ago. Even if somebody did cock up, what's to be gained by a public-hanging? Nobody intended any malice, and fairly drastic measures were quickly taken to prevent a reoccurence. Condolences to the families always, but case closed. I struggle to let it go. It happened because the authorities assumed all football fans were scum. People lied in the aftermath and the feeling of cover up continues. I went to a couple of FA Cup semi-finals in the 80s. Not that one, but the over-riding feeling of "it could have been me" stays. It wouldn't take much effort to remove that feeling of cover up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I wouldn't have said anything, but on a daily basis I'm bemused by people's apparent penchant for bad news and tragedy. I just don't see any conspiracy here which leads me to think people are looking for a 'justice' which entails punishing somebody for an unfortunate mistake, which already no doubt haunts the individual(s), and which they may indeed have covered up to escape the wrath of those who reckon two wrongs make a right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seasidelatic Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 My concern is that releasing this information early could compromise the ongoing enquiry into Hillsboro' - this information is due to come out at the end of the enquiry anyway is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddylad02 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 i was 6 when the incident took place an have been told, vaugley, the events of that particular day. the one thing that puzzles me is what do people expect to happen with these doc's being released?! from what i can gather the liverpool fans surged forward thru an open gate an crushed their fellow fans in doing so - if thats the basis of what happened , so ive been told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I struggle to let it go. It happened because the authorities assumed all football fans were scum. People lied in the aftermath and the feeling of cover up continues. I went to a couple of FA Cup semi-finals in the 80s. Not that one, but the over-riding feeling of "it could have been me" stays. It wouldn't take much effort to remove that feeling of cover up. I may become very unpopular here, but after seeing all the TV reports, and reading most newspaper reports, it was clear to me that the initial cause of the disaster was down to Liverpool fans arriving late, and trying to break down a gate in order to get in. The policeman in charge outside the ground was afraid that if the gate gave way people would be crushed. He therefore gave the order to open the gate. All the fans then ran to the tunnel in front of them. The outcome of which we all know. The police inside the ground then acted like complete imbeciles. The best course of action would have been for the policeman in charge outside to tell the police inside to get the kickoff delayed for 1/2 an hour. The fans outside may then have calmed down, and queued up in an orderly way (perhaps). The disaster would then have been avoided. The only people I can blame for this disaster were the Liverpool fans outside the ground, not the police. However the police were to blame by badly handling the situation. Also to blame was the way the terraces were penned and fenced. This was probably done on police advice, but many other grounds at the time were the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 That's my concern as well. The answer might be that the cops should have had longer sticks and used them a lot more violently, but i dont think thats the answer people are looking for? Those of up old enough all know that going to football then was a more dangerous affair than now, and policing techniques and stadia designs were a million miles behind the worst you will see today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) A number of factors came together in a fairly unfortunate way. The police put Forest fans in the Kop End, which held more than the Leppings Lane End, despite Liverpool having significantly bigger support. Roadworks appeared on the M62 delaying the arrival of many Liverpool fans. (I'd suggest the police should have been aware). Large numbers of fans were still outside the ground a few minutes before kick off. That end of the ground had very few turnstiles. Police feared a crush outside the ground and opened the exit gates. No stewards, police or police horses were deployed inside the ground to control the movement of fans who ended up in two of the penned areas instead of being spread evenly across all of the pens. Having stood on the Leppings Lane End in previous years myself, I can clearly recall stewards and police guiding fans to the outer pens when the inner ones had filled up. In other words it was a known risk. The authorities seemed to be unaware of a problem at the front of the pens prior to kick off, although radio 2 commentators referred to fans appearing to be packed in far too tightly. The police control box was in an elevated position with a good view of the same part of the ground referred to. When a problem was identified and the game was stopped the police formed a corden across the pitch to stop crowd trouble. Their response was to that of a hooligan threat when people were dying from something completely different. The Taylor report considered "failure of police control" to be the main cause of the disaster. It also identified that at the time of the disaster the entire terrace was well below capacity. This was not the fault of fans turning up for the game. The finger was, by many, pointed at Liverpool fans. "They were drunk" - some were, most weren't. "They stormed the gate" - no they didn't. The police opened it. "There were forged tickets forcing it over capacity" - no evidence of forged tickets was found and the HSE investigation confirmed the terrace was operating below capacity at the time of the crush. David Duckenfield, the Chief Superintendent in charge, stated that Liverpool fans had charged down the gates. This was later confirmed to be a lie. Several other officers were also accused of manipulating evidence. Edited August 23, 2011 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Hillsborough Stadium was a regular venue for FA Cup semi-finals during the 1980s, hosting a total of five. A previous crush had occurred on the same terrace during the 1981 semi-final between Spurs and Wolves, causing a total of 38 injuries. This prompted Sheffield Wednesday to alter the design of the Leppings Lane end, dividing it into three separate pens. The pens had been introduced to combat the rise of hooliganism on the terraces, but it also meant that if there was an emergency, the fans could become trapped. Liverpool and Forest had also met at the semi-final stage of the same competition at the same ground in 1988. In Lord Taylor’s Interim Report, he made no criticism of the Football Association’s decision to use the Hillsborough stadium as the semi-final for the second consecutive year, as the 1988 game had been considered a successfully managed event. However, it transpired that many Liverpool fans had reported crushing in the Leppings Lane End in 1988, leading to Liverpool FC lodging a complaint prior to the 1989 FA Cup Semi-Final. As the 1988 arrangements had otherwise worked satisfactorily, it was reasonable to assume that Sheffield Wednesday would concentrate on the issue of crushing in the Leppings Lane End. The question is therefore what was different on the 15th April 1989? I would explain that I was present with oafc_ok on both occasions, on the Kop looking towards the Leppings Lane End, and I refer to my own observations and subsequent findings. In 1988 the Liverpool fans took up their places in the Leppings Lane End gradually over a period of 90 minutes leading to the kick-off, filling the centre and side sections of the End. In 1989 only the centre section looked full by 3:00pm. The Taylor Report says a large number of Liverpool fans, including what Lord Taylor described as a “drunken minority”, arrived at the Leppings Lane End shortly before the kick-off. No decision was taken to delay the kick-off, but to relieve the dangerous congestion at the turnstiles, the police officer in charge of the game that day – Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield – ordered Exit Gate C to be opened to ease the crush outside the ground. He would later claim drunken Liverpool fans forced the gate open. Once inside the stadium, with poor signage and a lack of stewards to point them in the right direction, the majority of Liverpool fans headed down the tunnel towards the already full-to-capacity centre pen behind the goal, swelling the numbers and starting to crush those already on the terrace. With nowhere to go, the crush got worse. Fans literally died on their feet, the life sucked out of them as they became trapped in the pens supposedly designed for their own safety. Amazingly, the game kicked off at three o’clock. A few minutes later Peter Beardsley hit the bar, causing another surge forward, allowing more to push further along the tunnel leading to the centre pen. Eight minutes into the game it was called off as the police finally opened a gate, allowing fans out of the pens onto the pitch. Only one ambulance was allowed into the ground, and not until about 3:30pm, while another 43 waited outside on the orders of police, who told the paramedics there was fighting. Bodies were lined up on the side of the pitch as the survivors desperately tried to save friends, family and strangers caught in the crush. At no stage up to 3:40pm, when we left the stadium after Liverpool fans demolished the goal at the Leppings Lane End, was any PA announcement made to inform spectators what was happening. The police adopted the role of keeping fans apart by forming a line across the pitch, just as they had done the previous year, when Liverpool fans approached the Kop End in their celebrations after the final whistle. The only people tending for the injured were the Liverpool fans, who removed advertisement hoardings from round the pitch to use as makeshift stretchers. We had no idea that anyone had died until we heard it on the car radio on the way home. The shock of finding out what was actually happening in front of us, yet without our knowledge, was difficult to cope with at the time and it took a long time to get over it, but obviously that was nothing compared to the memories that Liverpool fans have to live with. The crucial mistake was that a person was not positioned at the entrance to the centre tunnel, to inform fans that that section was already full and direct them to the two side tunnels, leading to the comparatively empty terraces. The fans headed down the centre tunnel knowing that the game had already kicked off and in their determination to miss as little of the game as possible, they kept pushing each other as they inched their way down the tunnel, resulting in their fellow fans being crushed by the barriers and by the fencing at the front of the terrace. It really is a crying shame that this tragedy could so easily have been avoided, especially in the light of the complaint lodged by Liverpool FC prior to the 1989 game. Those seeking ‘justice’ want to know whether there is any evidence that their loved ones could have been saved if they had received proper medical attention, in that chaotic situation, when amateurs were trying to cope in the absence of any leadership from the professionals. They also want to find out the truth to see if the authorities controlled the aftermath to relieve them of any accountability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Done If my memory serves me, were we not a game away of us being there that fateful day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Done If my memory serves me, were we not a game away of us being there that fateful day? No, we lost to Charlton in the third round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Bloody hell, it was a horrifying event but it was 21/22 years ago. Even if somebody did cock up, what's to be gained by a public-hanging? Nobody intended any malice, and fairly drastic measures were quickly taken to prevent a reoccurence. Condolences to the families always, but case closed. Valid viewpoint but something bad happened that day, something that caused the death of 96 football fans who had just gone to a game of footie and had ramifications for each and everyone of us who go to the games today. All seater stadia, no booze in sight of the pitch, the removal of fences and an improvement in the way the old bill treat the football fan. So some good and some bad game out of the events of that day. Some pretty big mistakes were made from the allocation of ends/ tickets, police tactics, overall policing, I'll never forget watching the coppers forming a line across the pitch when those resources should have been used to help those being crushed. From memory too I recall something about ambulances not being allowed into the ground to help the fans who have been crushed, some pretty big calls were called wrong. There was allegedly CCTV footage that showed the situation developing but these tapes have disappeared. The bloke who made most of the calls that lead to gates being opened, ambulances not getting in, the kick-off not being delayed was retired off on a full pension, I bet the events of that day haunt him (or haunted, can't remember if he is alive or dead) each waking day. There is more than a whiff of coverup about Hillsborough, 96 footie fans died for no good reason, being rowdy/ drunk/ late or due to negligence are not good reasons to die. If I remember, most of those who died would have been in the ground early doors, it was the effects of the rush that lead to their deaths, on the whole, no charges or labels could be applied to those that died. Yes it was a long time ago and whoever cocked up probably didn't mean to cause a tragedy to occur, the issue as always is what happened after the event to stop the proper truth getting out so that the same mistakes weren't repeated, why are papers still being held back, it is the cover up that stinks. Edit, what Diego said, I was writing the above when he posted that. His post also reminded me that I think some died in that tunnel too, the whole thing was a mess that could and should have been avoided. Edited August 23, 2011 by beag_teeets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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