oafc-latics Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 the article isnt that clear to me, how will we lose out? sounds like we'll get less money either way and it's the PL making more money from lower league clubs, am i right? EPPP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 It all boils down to bigger clubs wanting to pay less for young players An example of how lesser teams would lose out drastically is Everton’s signing of Luke Garbett from Leeds in 2009. When the Toffees signed the 16-year-old defender, a tribunal ordered them to pay an initial £600,000. Yet, the new system would cap the figure at £131,000. Chelsea are currently lining up a £1.5million deal for MK Dons' Oluwaseyi Ojo - but the EPPP rules mean he would only cost around £50,000. That represents a huge loss for a lower-league club who often rely on selling their young talent to stay afloat. Top clubs will also be exempted from the rules that currently prevent them from signing under 16s who live more than 90 minutes’ travelling distance away (or an hour for under-12s) - instead allowing them to scout and sign players from anywhere in the country. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2051273/Football-League-changes-mean-future-stars-sold-cheap.html#ixzz1bJt4GsxR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robboman Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Joke IMO... but i suppose it may stop us flogging our promising youngsters in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Another kick in the balls for clubs outside the Premier League that will go largely unpublicised. It's also another blow to the England team as clubs will put less money into bringing through English talent if they know that they will lose them at the first sign that they are above average. Surely it also means that the big clubs will take more players who will then fail to make the grade whereas at present they might have stayed with their parent club and had the chance to progress at a faster rate. On the back of the talk of ending promotion/relegation it really does lead to further questions about the future of lower league football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'm not surprised that the PL is holding the FL to ransom, but I'm stunned by just how shamelessly they are doing it. To quote the BBC article: "If Football League clubs had voted against the new proposals, the funding they receive annually from the Premier League for youth development - a fee currently in excess of £5m per season - would have been withheld." Isn't this the type of issue that the FA should intervene in? Is the value of lower league football that low? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forte_Baby Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 You hit the nail on the head this is just another form of poaching on the cheap suppose the only benefit i see is if Man City and Wigan went head to head for a player no club could out bid each other. The FA need to step in and sort this issue out when it was first muted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitygoo Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 the fa don't care about clubs like us, well not untill its too late anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 "Also on the agenda today is a report on artificial playing surfaces." They're bringing back trams, so why not? If only Latics could afford a plastic pitch, it might just be the answer to many of the Club's problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 This could actually work in their favour of clubs like Latics, by the law of averages Premiership clubs can't keep every kid they sign on their books (even more so after they will be able to recruit from outside the former 90 mile radius) and many will be released before they are 16 years of age. Some of them are bound to slip through the net and it's up to clubs like Latics to keep scouting tabs on these youngsters. I think this happened in the case of David Mellor and I can see many more of his calibre arriving at BP under these new rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Indeed. Worked for Trotman (Burnley), might do for some of the current crop like McIntosh (Burnley), Connor (Sunderland), etc. (Just naming names; don't know how promising they are.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Indeed. Worked for Trotman (Burnley), might do for some of the current crop like McIntosh (Burnley), Connor (Sunderland), etc. (Just naming names; don't know how promising they are.) That puts us into category 4 academy, therefore we will be recieving less money for the players. Pure bull of all of it, the football league should of said no. We'll lose more money, yes we'll get the £200k a season, but we'll get screwed on many deals. Spencer went for £200k, under the new rules we'd of got less than a quarter of that. In the near future, we'll stop having an academy. As said in in various articles, MK Dons have sold that 14 year old for £1.5m upfront. According to the BBC article the most they could get under these new rules is £150,000. How are clubs meant to survive with the potential of losing out on £1.35m per deal if they have a very promising youngster? The FA will do fook all until it's to late. They'll be even less English players coming through now. Good to see that we was one of the few who voted against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 This is truly awful, awful news. One of the few good things left in watching latics to me is seeing young players come through and develop in the first team and then at the end of it you hope we get a nice pay day that'll help the club survive. What chance is there of that happening with this system. You could end up with a situation where the big clubs have youth academies with 100's of young players most of which will never even see the reserves nevermind the first team, then they'll be released and clubs like us will pick up what we can. One of the most important revenues for small clubs, selling promising players, will be lost. Yes, maybe we will get the odd player who has some ability but i'm pretty sure getting a decent sell on for these players will be a rarity. In the vast majority of cases they'll have found their level, unlike currently when we're churning out a fairly constant stream of sellable assets. There is no incentive anymore for a small club like us to actually try and develop any players. Why spend all that time scouting for young players that could develop, spend years training them and trying to bring out their potential and then lose them for :censored: all? If anyone thinks the Premier League clubs and that arsehole Richard Scudamore are doing this with anyone in mind except themselves, they're a :censored:ing idiot. They know they're getting a sweet deal out of this. They now have free run at any player that shows any potential whatsoever, pay a pathetically small fee and add them to their own youth academy. Each club in the Premier League could put aside £2m per season into this and get 20+ of the best youngsters in the country without having to do anything themselves and the amount is so small to them they wouldn't even notice it's gone. This is such a ridiculous idea, the PL clubs will become untouchable as a result along with a few otehrs that yo-yo between the Championship and PL. The premier league holding the FL to ransom is hardly a new phenomenon now but you would think the FL chairman would actually grow some backbone at some point. The FA and the FL chairman who voted this through should be ashamed, :censored:ing spineless twats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 on the surface this seems bad for us, however, it was a vote BY Football League clubs (not Premier League) and the vote was 2 to 1 in favour of it. most of those clubs are in a similar boat to us so what are we missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loonylatik Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 This could actually work in their favour of clubs like Latics, by the law of averages Premiership clubs can't keep every kid they sign on their books (even more so after they will be able to recruit from outside the former 90 mile radius) and many will be released before they are 16 years of age. Some of them are bound to slip through the net and it's up to clubs like Latics to keep scouting tabs on these youngsters. I think this happened in the case of David Mellor and I can see many more of his calibre arriving at BP under these new rules. It wasn't the case for D Mellor, they shamefully dumped him due to an injury and they didn't look after him properly (scum ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 on the surface this seems bad for us, however, it was a vote BY Football League clubs (not Premier League) and the vote was 2 to 1 in favour of it. most of those clubs are in a similar boat to us so what are we missing? According to reports most voted for because of the threat that the PL would withdraw solidarity payments if they didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Although it might not be good news for Latics I think this plan in general makes sense. Transfer fees for young players can be ridiculous. £1.5 million for a 14 year old, who hasn't played for the first team or probably even the reserve team? That's double our record transfer fee. Crazy money and that money doesn't go on developing the future youth, it goes on funding the sky high wages of the senior pros. Would you buy a business that has good potential but hasn't proved itself, sold anything and not made a profit? Transfer fees and wages are far too high at all levels in the game. For me clubs should get a fee that represents the work they've put into a player and then afterwards be rewarded for anything they go on to do in their future careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Although it might not be good news for Latics I think this plan in general makes sense. Transfer fees for young players can be ridiculous. £1.5 million for a 14 year old, who hasn't played for the first team or probably even the reserve team? That's double our record transfer fee. Crazy money and that money doesn't go on developing the future youth, it goes on funding the sky high wages of the senior pros. Would you buy a business that has good potential but hasn't proved itself, sold anything and not made a profit? Transfer fees and wages are far too high at all levels in the game. For me clubs should get a fee that represents the work they've put into a player and then afterwards be rewarded for anything they go on to do in their future careers. But will this system see a reduction in wage demands from these senior pros or will the FL clubs be held to ransom by them as well? The whole problem of spiraling wages is a product of the EPL anyway, so the product of their own greed shouldnt validate this load horse :censored:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 on the surface this seems bad for us, however, it was a vote BY Football League clubs (not Premier League) and the vote was 2 to 1 in favour of it. Latics voted against it: http://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/page/NewsUpdate/0,,10337~2488394,00.html Is it really such a big deal, though? The example used in this article of where Latics might have lost out in the past under these new rules is Scott Spencer. The only other one I can think of is Tony Philiskirk's son. I suppose Micah Richard might fall into this category also, but we've hardly made any money out of him have we? Our youth system is hardly funding the club on it's own. We all know that the FA needs an overhaul, and is only interested in making money for the Premier League, but if we'd have all voted against and lost the £200k per year, that surely would have been more of a loss financially? Just looking at the positives, like.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKI1234 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Latics voted against it: http://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/page/NewsUpdate/0,,10337~2488394,00.html Is it really such a big deal, though? The example used in this article of where Latics might have lost out in the past under these new rules is Scott Spencer. The only other one I can think of is Tony Philiskirk's son. I suppose Micah Richard might fall into this category also, but we've hardly made any money out of him have we? Our youth system is hardly funding the club on it's own. We all know that the FA needs an overhaul, and is only interested in making money for the Premier League, but if we'd have all voted against and lost the £200k per year, that surely would have been more of a loss financially? Just looking at the positives, like.... I dont see why such a large percentage of clubs have voted in favour of this if its such a bad deal for clubs. Have the premiership really bullied the likes of Leeds,Derby,Forest,Leicester,West Ham,Southampton etc etc (in fact most of the chmpionship) into voting yes. These clubs would not have been so hard up for the £200k per annum that they have given in to the Premier League. Yes they all want the extra £200k but these clubs can afford to vote against if they dont like it. Have all the other clubs just said yes to ensure they recieve the £200k, is it that straight forward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 But will this system see a reduction in wage demands from these senior pros or will the FL clubs be held to ransom by them as well? The whole problem of spiraling wages is a product of the EPL anyway, so the product of their own greed shouldnt validate this load horse :censored:. The only way this system will reduce players demands is if there is less money coming into the club and therefore less money to pay out. The issue of high wages is something far greater than this system. Who's being greedy btw? £1.5 million for a 14 year old is ludicrous. The buying club shouldn't be so foolish to pay that in the first place and the club who sold him shouldn't have to find £1.5 million extra in the first place to fund their squad. The value should represent the coaching and education the player has got and what level he is at his current club. Substantial bonus payments should be made for anything they do after they've been sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Learning from the Micah Richards situation, perhaps Latics should insert a contractual clause that guarantees a percentage of any future contract a player signs if they choose to stay at the club we sell them too. As well as a percentage of future transfer fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I dont see why such a large percentage of clubs have voted in favour of this if its such a bad deal for clubs. Have the premiership really bullied the likes of Leeds,Derby,Forest,Leicester,West Ham,Southampton etc etc (in fact most of the chmpionship) into voting yes. These clubs would not have been so hard up for the £200k per annum that they have given in to the Premier League. Yes they all want the extra £200k but these clubs can afford to vote against if they dont like it. Have all the other clubs just said yes to ensure they recieve the £200k, is it that straight forward? This is very true and don't forget that most of those clubs academies/centre of excellences will cost more than 200k a year to run, infact £200k a year is less than the average championship players annual salary anyway. The thing is whether we had recieved £200k or f-all for Scott Spencer the fact of the matter is it wouldn't have meant the player would have necessarily gone onto great things. So I don't see how making it easier for the top clubs to cherry pick the best players will benefit the amount of young English players coming through, so you have to say the PL are acting in their own interests from this respect. Our best chance here is as BP1960 said is to pick up the players that have been cast off from the big clubs. With United and City's academies flooded with youngsters from all over the world and now with the 90 minute rule abandoned then its going to be harder and harder for local lads from greater manchester to ever make it into their teams so in this respect we are in a good position to find the next David mellor. So while I don't think this is particularly good news for us I don't think its a disaster either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyPimp Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Our best chance here is as BP1960 said is to pick up the players that have been cast off from the big clubs. With United and City's academies flooded with youngsters from all over the world and now with the 90 minute rule abandoned then its going to be harder and harder for local lads from greater manchester to ever make it into their teams so in this respect we are in a good position to find the next David mellor. So while I don't think this is particularly good news for us I don't think its a disaster either. As pointed out by a few people now, the loss of £200k a year from the EPL is a drop in the ocean for most Championship clubs and cannot have been the deciding factor in their choice to back the rule change. Let's not forget that this opens up the door for all 92 clubs to pick up cheap youngsters from their rivals, although clearly the Premiership and Championship clubs stand to gain the most. Although there is a silver lining to the cloud, regarding the quality of players available from further up the ladder, this really is based on a very negative set of circumstances. Premiership and Championship clubs increase the size of their nets when trawling for young talent and get the opportunity to sweep up the overlooked diamonds at a knock-down price from (let's face it) lower league clubs. These kids face much-increased competition to stand out quickly and many will have their dreams shattered by being released without getting a proper chance to prove themselves. Cue the arrival of the landfill scavengers to pick over the cast-offs. Shameful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think the FL clubs, especially the smaller ones like us, should call the bluff of the greedy league lot over this. Scrap their youth policies and just wait to pick up the scraps of the greedy league lot when they turn 16. This will cost the PL clubs a lot more as they will have to develop ALL players at youth level and not be able to poach the best talent from FL clubs, and it will save the likes of us some money as we no longer have the cost of funding a full youth policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 An e-petition to have it reviewed https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/21314 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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