Ched Evans

[Lee Sinnott]

Listen to us on our high horse. We sung "out on parole wearing number nine" (myself included), whilst a family still mourned the loss of their father...

[jimsleftfoot]

Re. Ched Evans. He's had his inquiry fast tracked, so we shall perhaps know sooner rather than later.

[ChaddySmoker]

We have no right whatsoever to take the moral high ground!

[youngen]

Awful fans them :censored:! The worst i have come accross, 2 seasons ago a coach full were trying to kick off with me, i was on my own minding my business, absolute tossers. Good job nothing came of it or I'd have had to take them all out.....

 

Disagree, the fans we met in the Old Grey Mare after one game in the last couple of years, were quality & genuinely nice blokes. Every club has its idiots, the bigger the fan base, the more idiots. We have all sung songs at grounds & in boozers which arent politically correct.

If they sign him, who cares, he has been rehabilitated, he has served his time & is entitled to work. What would you rather he did, became a social recluse? The media hyping this up so much & all of these discussions aren't taking the poor girl into consideration, yet lambasting Sheff U for doing the exact same thing. Leave it be, let them both get on with their own lives.

[Guest Scratch2000uk]

We have no right whatsoever to take the moral high ground!

 

Not everyone was happy with Hughes signing and the fans weren't consulted as far as i remember.As a club maybe not, On a personal level, i can safely say i can.

[bigfatjoe1]

 

Disagree, the fans we met in the Old Grey Mare after one game in the last couple of years, were quality & genuinely nice blokes. Every club has its idiots, the bigger the fan base, the more idiots. We have all sung songs at grounds & in boozers which arent politically correct.

If they sign him, who cares, he has been rehabilitated, he has served his time & is entitled to work. What would you rather he did, became a social recluse? The media hyping this up so much & all of these discussions aren't taking the poor girl into consideration, yet lambasting Sheff U for doing the exact same thing. Leave it be, let them both get on with their own lives.

 

Yes. Infact, i'd rather the rapist just :censored:ed off to another country all togther. i don't want to see him on the telly celebrating goals. I don't want his victim feeling physically sick every time she see's him or reads about him in the paper. Rapists are the scum of the earth.He's ruined her life, now he should not be allowed to parade himself around as if it's all well and good. He knew what he was doing. Now he should piss off out of the way.

[leeslover]

I don't think I can add anything further to this thread, so I'm out.

[HarryBosch]

I don't think I can add anything further to this thread, so I'm out.

I reckon it'll become an all time classic after he wins his appeal

Edited October 20, 2014 by HarryBosch

[cornishblue]

I never thought when i created this topic that it would cause so much debate and moral talking points.

 

I was anticipating simple one word or a one sentance answers but it has created a 10 page thread.

 

This is why we have a message board so that we can post and air their opinions. Some we agree with and some we don't. Just like being down the pub with your mates (with out the beer)

[unsworthlatic]

I personally wouldn't sign Ched Evans for Oldham as it would just say to everybody that 'we sign anybody and everybody regardless of what they have done or have been convicted for'

 

That said, had we not have signed Lee Hughes I may have wanted to sign him as he has served his time, rightly or wrongly, that was the sentence he was given so the crime has been committed and time has been served, therefore he should have a right to try and get his career back on track.

 

Following on from that, none of you will know exactly what was said in the courtroom unless you were there or have had any access to any evidence from the case that was used, I must admit I do see why he was convicted, however I am not sure that 'rape' is really the right word to describe what happened that night (my opinion)

 

Other posters on here have worded such things horrifically, however I agree with the conclusion he is trying to come to. The girl can TRY and get over what has happened and has a chance to live a life, sadly in McCormick's case and Lee Hughes' case the victims involved cannot as they have their life taken from them, not condoning what Evans did but surely if you 'rank' crimes for whatever reason both Hughes and McCormick come lower than Evans?

 

It's a tough one as I believe he should be allowed to play football again and one of the supporting reasons for this is that other criminals have been allowed back into a footballing career. Until there is a rule against criminals as a whole playing football then he is no different. You can't pick and choose what criminals you allow back into football, it's the same rule for all of them or none of them in my opinion

 

Would I sign Evans? Probably not

 

Would I support Evans if he signed for us? Yes, he's wearing a blue shirt with an Oldham badge on (doesn't mean I like him)

 

Would I stop going to watch Latics if we signed him? Definitely not

 

Does he have to be a role model for children? No, tell your children he's a footballer, it's his job but he's not a very nice man

 

Do I think he should be allowed to play football again? YES

 

All opinion based, however just one hypothetical question:

 

Should his conviction get overturned is he allowed back in then? and should people apologise for calling him something that he eventually is proved not to be?

[blueatheart]

snip

 

Question. If, on appeal, he is found not guilty, what then?

[opinions4u]

Should his conviction get overturned is he allowed back in then?

Yes.

 

and should people apologise for calling him something that he eventually is proved not to be?

No. Only those who created the circumstances that caused an unsafe conviction should apologise.

 

just one hypothetical question

That was two questions.

 

but surely if you 'rank' crimes for whatever reason both Hughes and McCormick come lower than Evans?

The outcomes were "lower". Driving intoxicated is pretty low in my view. Equally, neither intended to kill. They did not deliberately seek out their victims. There was no intention to harm.

 

Making a decision to screw an unconscious woman? That was intending to rape.

 

All made pretty poor decisions. Only one knew (or should have known) that they would damage another human being when making their decision.

Edited October 21, 2014 by opinions4u

[singe]

One thing is for sure whatever the rights and wrongs there is far more intelligent debate on here than in the newspapers or on certain TV programmes.

All kudos to OWTB & OAFC fans on here for that.

[jsslatic]

Only one knew (or should have known) that they would damage another human being when making their decision.

 

Agreed save for the last bit. LH and LM should have known they would, or at least were very possible to, damage another human being.

[opinions4u]

Agreed save for the last bit. LH and LM should have known they would, or at least were very possible to, damage another human being.

The only difference is level of certainty.

[NewBlue]

After the Pistorius conviction today, coincidentally the same stretch as Evans' was meant to serve, the Paralympic body (if I've read correctly) said that even if he was allowed out after 2 years - the minimum time he can serve before parole - they wouldn't let him compete for the further 3 years that he was convicted, totalling the full 5 year sentence. If the FA took that stance Evans wouldn't be able to resume his career until 2017. Interesting attitude, especially as some would question whether employing a rapist is worse than employing somebody convicted for manslaughter.

[blueatheart]

After the Pistorius conviction today, coincidentally the same stretch as Evans' was meant to serve, the Paralympic body (if I've read correctly) said that even if he was allowed out after 2 years - the minimum time he can serve before parole - they wouldn't let him compete for the further 3 years that he was convicted, totalling the full 5 year sentence. If the FA took that stance Evans wouldn't be able to resume his career until 2017. Interesting attitude, especially as some would question whether employing a rapist is worse than employing somebody convicted for manslaughter.

Too many ethical dilemmas clearly. I've seen the video from Evans today, there is no remorse and from what I've read, it isn't a clear cut case.

 

Regardless, the prison system works on a rehabilitation program, it works to reintegrate people into society. Whether that mirrors reality or not is a seperate discussion. Personally, I don't think its up to sporting bodies to attempt to further up hold the law.

[youngen]

One thing is for sure whatever the rights and wrongs there is far more intelligent debate on here than in the newspapers or on certain TV programmes.

All kudos to OWTB & OAFC fans on here for that.

 

What happens if Sheff Uts tell Ched Evans 'No'?

 

Sorry for that

[pukka]

 

What happens if Sheff Uts tell Ched Evans 'No'?

 

Sorry for that

 

 

What happens if Sheffield United are too drunk to say no?

[youngen]

 

 

What happens if Sheffield United are too drunk to say no?

 

Thats more in line with what actually happened in this specific case. My point was a general overview

[Scapegoat]

Really interesting thread that has thrown up a range of moral views that surprise and shock.

 

My two penneth for what it's worth.

 

I put my faith in the justice system, albeit it will never be perfect, and accept that people make mistakes, people are held to account for them.

 

After this you should have the opportunity topic your life back on track (I would want the same).

 

However the opportunity is one that will be more difficult after you are released as the record will stay with you and reduce the likelihood of certain aspects. For me showing remorse is something that I would expect from anyone trying to do this.

 

Lee Hughes showed this (whether is was genuine you will never know), and also undoubtedly ended up at a "lesser company" and earning less money than he would have done if he had never committed a crime.

 

On a point of principal (my belief in justice and rehabilitation) I accepted Hughes, thought that he did a good job for what he was paid for, and put up with a lot of abuse in the process. My views have not changed over the last few seasons and would support it again.

 

Chef Evans is currently different. He has not accepted he did something wrong and has shown no remorse. This is his absolute right, and he should be able to fight to clear his name if he believes that is the truth.

 

I believe that in doing so, he in essence makes a decision that changes his employability. Until

It is resolved I think he is unemployable. Lose the appeal and I think he is very difficult to employ even if at a later date he demonstrates remorse

- it will look false. Win, and probably get a decent job.

 

 

Being a footballer shouldn't mean that you are treated differently in legal terms ie being banned. But any employer is concerned about PR, and a fact is that a footballer has more PR impact than a bricklayer.

 

Each business must make its own decision.

 

Whilst I found the Hughes thing something that I was OK with morally, Evans lack of remorse means that I would not be OK at this stage.

 

If he wins the appeal then I would be OK morally with it, but it would still be a question for LJ as to whether the benefit of his ability was worth the risk he would pose in terms of stability and team spirit.

[Matt]

It's a good job we haven't discussed gamergate.

[IceStationLatic]

Of course the key thing he will be claiming as part of his appeal is that the her being totally intoxicated and not knowing what she was doing etc was a myth.

 

She couldn't remember, the only other person there said she was 'up for it' and was fine. But that's the theory that stuck, and everyone believes and quotes as fact, and what the jury believed.

 

He actually claims she was the instigator, sent Facebook messages during the time she's said to have been too intoxicated to consent, and then of course bragged to friends about 'gonna win big'.

 

All these ppl saying 'I can't believe he has shown no compassion for the victim', including many journalists on twitter, what planet are they on.

 

Firstly, it's hardly going to help his appeal as any apology or statement of regret for this mess (hence he's only apologised for the infidelity and made that distinction clear with his video) would be seen as an admission of guilt.

 

Secondly, why on earth would he be prepared to show compassion for the victim when, in his eyes, he's innocent of rape and her actions have led to him being jailed for more than two and a half years.

Edited October 24, 2014 by IceStationLatic

[jimsleftfoot]

Of course the key thing he will be claiming as part of his appeal is that the her being totally intoxicated and not knowing what she was doing etc was a myth.

 

She couldn't remember, the only other person there said she was 'up for it' and was fine. But that's the theory that stuck, and everyone believes and quotes as fact, and what the jury believed.

 

He actually claims she was the instigator, sent Facebook messages during the time she's said to have been too intoxicated to consent, and then of course bragged to friends about 'gonna win big'.

 

All these ppl saying 'I can't believe he has shown no compassion for the victim', including many journalists on twitter, what planet are they on.

 

Firstly, it's hardly going to help his appeal as any apology or statement of regret for this mess (hence he's only apologised for the infidelity and made that distinction clear with his video) would be seen as an admission of guilt.

 

Secondly, why on earth would he be prepared to show compassion for the victim when, in his eyes, he's innocent of rape and her actions have led to him being jailed for more than two and a half years.

Although I get your point and yes I would also agree that he's unlikely to apologise if he still thinks he innocent with an inquiry coming up. Let's not forget that currently he's guilty of the crime and is now considered so unless the inquiry points to a miscarriage.

[rudemedic]

Although I get your point and yes I would also agree that he's unlikely to apologise if he still thinks he innocent with an inquiry coming up. Let's not forget that currently he's guilty of the crime and is now considered so unless the inquiry points to a miscarriage.

That's the key for me, it isn't a case of getting a jury of 12 of his peers to find him innocent, as a jury of 12 of his peers found him guilty. For that verdict to be overturned there has to be evidence of a miscarriage of justice. In such a high profile case, and backed by an obviously quite expensive legal team, the chances of a miscarriage of justice are probably slightly slimmer than average. But saying that I cannot see the CPS fast-tracking his "appeal" hearing just because it is a cause-célèbre, there will be something potentially significant for them to do so.

 

There was a very fascinating editorial in the Sheffield Star the other day:

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/star-editor-s-opinion-no-way-back-to-sheffield-united-for-rapist-ched-evans-1-6911497 it's well worth a read. It's quite clear that this whole incident is costing the tax-payer a significant sum of money, and the behaviour of those close to Evans' and his supporters (but not Evans' himself) is frankly criminal it is that obscene.