HarryBosch Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 we currently have a player better than him in the starting 11 now so thats well up for debate. Who is the better player we have now? Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenbaltipie Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I don't really see how you can compare the two, something that always frustrates me with football debates. Kelly does good things for the team but he's not dynamic, he rarely picks ball up and drives at the oppositions defence to go on create a scoring opportunity, go on to score himself, change a game, for me that is what a midfielder should have in his armoury. I think he sticks out in a very poor team for his willingness to put his foot in and break the play up, not saying he's not our shining light at the minute because he is, but at the present time we are a poor outfit and when your not playing well the first things many fans look for is a players level of commitment. You could argue the opposite and say Baxter couldn't tackle for his life and gave the ball away too easily at times which put us under pressure. Attacking midfielder vs defensive midfielder, incomparable. One assist last season and one goal in 37 games shows his work is clearly not done in hurting the opposition, and with our gaping holes at the back clearly the defensive side of his game isn't having much impact with the ease at which teams play through our back four. If someone offered me a swap deal now I'd certainly take Baxter, as we can't score for toffee and the entertainment value is nil. I'd rather lose having a go and scoring some goals than go down with nothing more than a whimper. Organisation can stop the team leaking goals, its much harder to find a player who can change a game in the blink of an eye and win you a football match, Jose could. Christ, we even sang his name out loud every other game, there aren't many players you can say that about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshgaz Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Massive disservice to Kelly in this thread. He's the only player who tackles. I agree his form hasn't been as good as previouslyin terms of distribution but he's still a really intelligent footballer and is on his own in there week after week. Just because he doesn't drive forward with the ball doesn't mean he doesn't contribute in a number of other ways. He's the only player we have who can anticipate and win first and second balls for starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JA11K Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Massive disservice to Kelly in this thread. He's the only player who tackles. I agree his form hasn't been as good as previouslyin terms of distribution but he's still a really intelligent footballer and is on his own in there week after week. Just because he doesn't drive forward with the ball doesn't mean he doesn't contribute in a number of other ways. He's the only player we have who can anticipate and win first and second balls for starters. That's not what people are saying - clearly he is our best player at the moment and I hate to think the state we would be in without him. However, he's not in the same league as Baxter. Baxter is up there with the best players we have had in the godforsaken league, whereas Kelly would not get in a best XI of our time in the third tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshgaz Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 That's not what people are saying - clearly he is our best player at the moment and I hate to think the state we would be in without him. However, he's not in the same league as Baxter. Baxter is up there with the best players we have had in the godforsaken league, whereas Kelly would not get in a best XI of our time in the third tier. They can't be compare though. Someone on the blades forum summed Baxter up recently. A genius with the ball, a liability without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSizeFitz Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Baxter's clearly the more technically-gifted player, but that's not to say that I wouldn't rather have Kelly at the minute... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Baxter or Winchester? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Anybody who wouldn't take back Jose ought to stop bothering with this football rubbish. It's not for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Baxter or Winchester? Clearly Baxter. However I would've built our attack around getting the most our of Winchester after his form at the back end of last season as I feel he could've had a similar effect to Baxter this season if managed correctly. He's been one of the worst affected by the managerial choices this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Massive disservice to Kelly in this thread. He's the only player who tackles. I agree his form hasn't been as good as previouslyin terms of distribution but he's still a really intelligent footballer and is on his own in there week after week. Just because he doesn't drive forward with the ball doesn't mean he doesn't contribute in a number of other ways. He's the only player we have who can anticipate and win first and second balls for starters. You're right. Absolutely right. But..... Doesn't it sum it all up that our best player is currently a defensive :censored:ing midfielder.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Baxter's clearly the more technically-gifted player, but that's not to say that I wouldn't rather have Kelly at the minute... I'd have them both... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatjoe1 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I reckon they'll kick him out in January. We should try to get him back. I'd like to see a line-up with Jones-Baxter-Yeates playing behind Cassidy and in front of Kelly and (if he gets fit) Wellens. Then again, can you imagine Higdon, Baxter, Croft and Dunn in the same team? We'd have the fattest team in the entire league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 It is a very difficult comparison to make as they are totally different players ... Some seem to think think the better players have to be goal scorers or flair players for them to be 'great' or the best. It is a very difficult comparison to make as they are totally different players ... Kelly while not in his best form at the moment (not like Jose's form ever dipped?) leads this team by driving us forward admittedly from deep, he wins the ball back for us constantly every game which is a very underated skill nowadays. He is surrounded by an out of form badly organised side & we can all agree that we'd be far worse off without him. In fact we would be bottom. He has never let us down once but because the team is :censored: people assume isn't good enough to move up a level. Baxter was excellent for us & scored goals but he was also very quiet at times. His attitude wasn't the best which seems to have followed him, plus he put on weight. Fans forgive that sort of things when you can score great goals & have a bit of flair which he of course did. Does that make him a great player? Does it make him worth the fee alone? Sometimes maybe. What about when he goes missing Attitude, Fitness, Leadership, He keeps us ticking, When Kelly is poor he still does a job and stands out amongst our other players.Korey Smith was another just like him and he was underrated on here as well for the same reasons. I'm not bashing Baxter as he was very good for us and I was gutted when he left but I rate Kelly as a better fit for us & think he will be a championship player in the next 12 months also, Baxter won't imo For those wanting Baxter back, he is a fat and out of shape, recently banned for drugs & in trouble again by the sounds of it. If Barry lined someone with that record up you'd sprew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 That's not what people are saying - clearly he is our best player at the moment and I hate to think the state we would be in without him. However, he's not in the same league as Baxter. Baxter is up there with the best players we have had in the godforsaken league, whereas Kelly would not get in a best XI of our time in the third tier. Baxter and Kelly are in the same league...literally! Kelly wouldn't get into are best league 1 eleven? I'd have to have a proper think but if you picked a proper team rather than 11 individuals I wager he could? Would Baxter? Again possibly but we have had better forwards & better midfielders so youd have to find a sport for him. We have had some quality down the years so its debatable. All about opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Most teams in the league have got a Liam Kelly, not many have got a Baxter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Most teams in the league have got a Liam Kelly, not many have got a Baxter. A lot have a Weslowski, not a Kelly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 A lot have a Weslowski, not a Kelly. Not sure about that, lot of it down to perception in that he looks more like a footballer. For me he doesn't do a lot more than Wes did, he's a bit neat and tidier with the ball but he's hardly dynamic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Not sure about that, lot of it down to perception in that he looks more like a footballer. For me he doesn't do a lot more than Wes did, he's a bit neat and tidier with the ball but he's hardly dynamic. Wes had better players next to him helping. Kelly doesn't have that luxury... This was done to death about Wes & Korey Smith Edited December 4, 2015 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Wes had better players next to him helping. Kelly doesn't have that luxury... This was done to death about Wes & Korey Smith Aye, it has been done to death. He's not even as good as Mike Jones though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Wes had better players next to him helping. Kelly doesn't have that luxury... This was done to death about Wes & Korey Smith Smith was/is miles better than both Kelly and Wesolowski. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JA11K Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Smith was/is miles better than both Kelly and Wesolowski. Wouldn't say miles better than Kelly, he's better on the ball but I they're very closely matched when contributing to our defensive and transition play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC0AFC Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Not sure about that, lot of it down to perception in that he looks more like a footballer. For me he doesn't do a lot more than Wes did, he's a bit neat and tidier with the ball but he's hardly dynamic. Now I don't want to take it out of context, but when we were beating some of the tops teams last season and our midfield looked classy and organised - Kelly was bloody fantastic and spraying passes from one side to the other. I want to mention Fleetwood away as a performance where Kelly stood out from a mile off with his class, our whole team were good that day but he was pivotal, broke down play, made 30/40 yard passes into feet for our wingers and played box to box like I feel he would still be doing if he had a half decent defence/midfield with him. I'd also like to mention Rachubka, he got slated a lot on here but he offered the back 4 so much organisation and structure. Which allowed kelly to bugger off and play further up the pitch. All about opinions, of course. Edited December 4, 2015 by MAC0AFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluear Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Can't understand how Kelly gets labelled with the "does nothing but run around a lot" he brings a lot more just unfortunately he's been stuck in the middle with people like Fulton (who doesn't give a flying :censored:) and Philly (who isn't a defensive midfielder in a month of Sunday's) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I like Liam Kelly a lot. But anyone who would rather have Liam Kelly over Jose Baxter deserved to be bored to tears watching the dross we've been served up this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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