BP1960 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Because if any investor bought the club for £1 he would be taking on liabilities at a net figure of £4.9M plus monies owed to a Company in Liverpool! Who is this company in Liverpol, what's their business, and how much do we owe to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluear Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 More chance of Oscar Pistorious sprouting real legs and running out of prison Which is also more likely than Hank Kingsley not turning a comment into "dunn was the saviour" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I disagree with this on the basis of the new stand. True the site could be bulldozed tomorrow but the building of the stand will have only increased the value of the buildings on the site, meaning that bulldozing three old and one new stand is not as cost effective as it would have been bulldozing four old stands ten years ago. The cost of building the new stand can't be underestimated in the long-term future of the club. But the stand is effectively nothing to do with the club. OAFC own no part of the new stand but merely rent the land it sits on. There is no "Fans Charter" or even any talk of the percent of any profits that OAFC/the budget might receive. The new stand can have absolutely zero benefit to the club. Yet to build it has severely impacted on the club. That's the whole point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) But the stand is effectively nothing to do with the club. OAFC own no part of the new stand but merely rent the land it sits on. There is no "Fans Charter" or even any talk of the percent of any profits that OAFC/the budget might receive. The new stand can have absolutely zero benefit to the club. Yet to build it has severely impacted on the club. That's the whole point. Yes you are correct. The stand doesn't have facilities for fans including seats, concourses and refreshment stands. It also doesn't have themed bars or a club shop. No benefit. Apart from it is shaped like a stand and is built like a stand and looks like a number of other new stands at other clubs. But yes, nothing to do with the club. May as well had built that structure on some waste land elsewhere in Royton, nowhere near a football pitch. I'm sure people would still buy season tickets and visit the bars to pay for overpriced beer. Edited January 26, 2016 by blueatheart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Apparently the 'debt' isn't actually a debt like we know it Simon Brooke said last night. He also mentioned There are also a few interests at the moment with people wanting to takeover. I guess he means it is not debt we have to keep paying interest on each month/year. Edited January 26, 2016 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 But the stand is effectively nothing to do with the club. OAFC own no part of the new stand but merely rent the land it sits on. There is no "Fans Charter" or even any talk of the percent of any profits that OAFC/the budget might receive. The new stand can have absolutely zero benefit to the club. Yet to build it has severely impacted on the club. That's the whole point. What I don't get is how that works with ticket money - are the seats and the boxes/suites etc.. all separate businesses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 What I don't get is how that works with ticket money - are the seats and the boxes/suites etc.. all separate businesses? It's amazing how many people have intimate knowledge of the clubs cash flow yet are willing to participate in idle speculation about said cash flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluear Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Yes you are correct. The stand doesn't have facilities for fans including seats, concourses and refreshment stands. It also doesn't have themed bars or a club shop. No benefit. Apart from it is shaped like a stand and is built like a stand and looks like a number of other new stands at other clubs. But yes, nothing to do with the club. May as well had built that structure on some waste land elsewhere in Royton, nowhere near a football pitch. I'm sure people would still buy season tickets and visit the bars to pay for overpriced beer. ????? hahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 It's a tall order but I think we can all get behind the club attempting to get through a whole 12 month period without doing a single thing that results in oafc0000 crawling out from under his rock..... Whatever you think about me, I do only crawl out of my rock because I do care about the club.... even if you think I go the wrong way about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Who is this company in Liverpol, what's their business, and how much do we owe to them? As is usual Companies House records are all retrospective. It has not filed any Accounts yet and its 'trade' is very general-non specific. It looks like we might be signing some good players with this plus the £75K from Philly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 It's amazing how many people have intimate knowledge of the clubs cash flow yet are willing to participate in idle speculation about said cash flow. Aye all that speculation about wages not being paid on time! How dare we! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Yes you are correct. The stand doesn't have facilities for fans including seats, concourses and refreshment stands. It also doesn't have themed bars or a club shop. No benefit. Apart from it is shaped like a stand and is built like a stand and looks like a number of other new stands at other clubs. But yes, nothing to do with the club. May as well had built that structure on some waste land elsewhere in Royton, nowhere near a football pitch. I'm sure people would still buy season tickets and visit the bars to pay for overpriced beer. Are you deliberately being silly? Does OAFC own the stand then? No. Is there anywhere to suggest any proceeds from the monies being spent in the stand enter the accounts of OAFC? Let me know if you ever find the answer (with proof)..... Edited January 26, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Are you deliberately being silly? Does OAFC own the stand then? No. Is there anywhere to suggest any proceeds from the monies being spent in the stand enter the accounts of OAFC? Let me know if you ever find the answer..... No, are you? Does OAFC own the seats? I'm pretty sure I pay my season ticket money to OAFC. I haven't had a sponsorship package yet in the new stand but I was invoiced by OAFC last time. I'm also confident that the catering takings for the stadium will be banked together, I would be surprised if it wasn't. The same with the programme income. Are you suggesting they have different bank accounts for all of this setup under different companies? I'll rely on your intimate knowledge of the clubs cash flows to let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Are you deliberately being silly? Does OAFC own the stand then? No. Is there anywhere to suggest any proceeds from the monies being spent in the stand enter the accounts of OAFC? Let me know if you ever find the answer..... Some people seem to think we get rent from the use of facilities... Which we lease from Brass Bank.... for a fee (I presume)... Which I am presuming means we actually make nothing... But who knows... Maybe a question for a new trust to sort out.... Edited January 26, 2016 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Does OAFC own the seats? Apparently we rent/lease the seats.... ?? Wasn't this being discussed yesterday.... Edited January 26, 2016 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Apparently we rent/lease the seats.... ?? Wasn't this being discussed yesterday.... That was about the land... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 But the stand is effectively nothing to do with the club. OAFC own no part of the new stand but merely rent the land it sits on. There is no "Fans Charter" or even any talk of the percent of any profits that OAFC/the budget might receive. The new stand can have absolutely zero benefit to the club. Yet to build it has severely impacted on the club. That's the whole point. Yes you are correct. The stand doesn't have facilities for fans including seats, concourses and refreshment stands. It also doesn't have themed bars or a club shop. No benefit. Apart from it is shaped like a stand and is built like a stand and looks like a number of other new stands at other clubs. But yes, nothing to do with the club. May as well had built that structure on some waste land elsewhere in Royton, nowhere near a football pitch. I'm sure people would still buy season tickets and visit the bars to pay for overpriced beer. You can't say that the stand has no benefit for the club because we don't have enough information to reach that conclusion. The new stand will lead to some people coming to BP on a match day who wouldn't have done so without the new facilities. This is a benefit, albeit, probably not a material benefit. If the club receives the rent from the sub-leasing of the retail and other facilities in the new stand, that will be a much more significant benefit. To the best of my knowledge, it is not in the public domain as to whether this is the case but I would expect that it is. Ultimately, however, the big earner in the new stand will be the event centre and that is not something the club have a stake in as it is wholly owned by TTA. Even if they are paying us rent for the facility, we are ultimately giving that back to 2 of them through the rental payments on the leasehold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Yes you are correct. The stand doesn't have facilities for fans including seats, concourses and refreshment stands. It also doesn't have themed bars or a club shop. No benefit. Apart from it is shaped like a stand and is built like a stand and looks like a number of other new stands at other clubs. But yes, nothing to do with the club. May as well had built that structure on some waste land elsewhere in Royton, nowhere near a football pitch. I'm sure people would still buy season tickets and visit the bars to pay for overpriced beer. We get the gate money though and the more in it the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) That was about the land... You specifically said "do we own the seats".... Edited January 26, 2016 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 No, are you? Does OAFC own the seats? I'm pretty sure I pay my season ticket money to OAFC. I haven't had a sponsorship package yet in the new stand but I was invoiced by OAFC last time. I'm also confident that the catering takings for the stadium will be banked together, I would be surprised if it wasn't. The same with the programme income. Are you suggesting they have different bank accounts for all of this setup under different companies? I'll rely on your intimate knowledge of the clubs cash flows to let me know. You can keep being sly and think you're clever by repeating the soundbyte "intimate knowledge of the clubs cash flows" It doesn't take much intelligence to believe that there will be a bank account for OAFC and a bank account for OEC. We have seen several bills put onto OAFC's accounts (they're in the domain freely for all to see) that have been related to assets not in OAFC's name. Like when they put a £1 million R&D invoice on OAFC for the FAILSworth debacle. Such practices suggest monies from OEC will be drip-fed at best to OAFC. If we are lucky. But next you'll use another soundbyte like "well they saved us, they own it all, they can do what they like" and you'll expect everyone to be happy as pigs in :censored: about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 You can keep being sly and think you're clever by repeating the soundbyte "intimate knowledge of the clubs cash flows" It doesn't take much intelligence to believe that there will be a bank account for OAFC and a bank account for OEC. We have seen several bills put onto OAFC's accounts (they're in the domain freely for all to see) that have been related to assets not in OAFC's name. Like when they put a £1 million R&D invoice on OAFC for the FAILSworth debacle. Such practices suggest monies from OEC will be drip-fed at best to OAFC. If we are lucky. But next you'll use another soundbyte like "well they saved us, they own it all, they can do what they like" and you'll expect everyone to be happy as pigs in :censored: about it! You didn't answer my questions about season ticket income, matchday income, sponsorship income etc. Do they have separate bank accounts/companies etc? Regardless of what has hit the club accounts in the past or future, they are one off costs. That means they won't happen again. Unless of course we replace another stand with another new stand, in which case that would be very bad for the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticMark Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Who is this company in Liverpol, what's their business, and how much do we owe to them? Necarcu Ltd. Sole director is Graeme Middleton. Their standard industrial classification is "Other business support service activities not elsewhere classified." There is a 34 page PDF document on the Companies House website if anyone wants to read it! Graeme Middleton is also involved in other companies including a call centre, and two companies with 'barcode' in their name! https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04989487/charges Edited January 26, 2016 by Mark59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 As is often the case on OWTB peoples opinion is yet again being passed off as fact, and we need to be careful of that as many jump on this and use it to spread even more ill feeling. The truth is none of us know details about the way the club will benefit (or not) in financial terms, all we do know is that Mr. Corney has on more than one occasion said things along the lines of "monies from income from the new stand will allow the club to be sustainable and compete at this level." I think we need to take this at face value until somebody has conclusive proof that the opposite is the case, and I mean proof, not just hearsay. opinion or scaremongering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 As is often the case on OWTB peoples opinion is yet again being passed off as fact, and we need to be careful of that as many jump on this and use it to spread even more ill feeling. The truth is none of us know details about the way the club will benefit (or not) in financial terms, all we do know is that Mr. Corney has on more than one occasion said things along the lines of "monies from income from the new stand will allow the club to be sustainable and compete at this level." I think we need to take this at face value until somebody has conclusive proof that the opposite is the case, and I mean proof, not just hearsay. opinion or scaremongering. A lot of people once took a Mr Moores at face value and while I AM NOT suggesting Corney or anyone else currently involved at the club is doing anything as damaging as he did... The lesson from that period to all fans was never again to trust anyone. Hence why we set up the trust. The trust should be aware of all these issues and keeping an eye on them. And they should be telling the fans what they can about these issues (or none issues). The fact is we bought 3% of the club so we would know simple stuff like this. If there is nothing to hide, there is nothing to hide...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 As is often the case on OWTB peoples opinion is yet again being passed off as fact, and we need to be careful of that as many jump on this and use it to spread even more ill feeling. The truth is none of us know details about the way the club will benefit (or not) in financial terms, all we do know is that Mr. Corney has on more than one occasion said things along the lines of "monies from income from the new stand will allow the club to be sustainable and compete at this level." I think we need to take this at face value until somebody has conclusive proof that the opposite is the case, and I mean proof, not just hearsay. opinion or scaremongering. This. All day long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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