kowenicki Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, JoeP said: Responsibility comes from the top down. If the person at the top can't do their job properly, why should we expect the next person down to? What utter nonsense. Why should we expect them to? Oh... I dunno… because its their job perhaps? You are saying that an incompetent boss is a free pass for anyone beneath them to be shit at their jobs as there can be no expectation of anything more. That's just bollocks. You never worked for a crap boss? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, kowenicki said: What utter nonsense. Why should we expect them to? Oh... I dunno… because its their job perhaps? You are saying that an incompetent boss is a free pass for anyone beneath them to be shit at their jobs as there can be no expectation of anything more. That's just bollocks. You never worked for a crap boss? Why are you always so argumentative? The post could quite easily be read as saying that a bad leader is unlikely to generate optimal performance, which is pretty much beyond debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: The recent loss of Surridge through “injury” isn’t I suspect Bunn’s fault but coincides with a downturn in form. are you suggesting that Surridge is not actually injured? And that he is not playing for us or any other club because we cannot afford to stump up the loan fee? Doesn’t quite ring true for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, kowenicki said: What utter nonsense. Why should we expect them to? Oh... I dunno… because its their job perhaps? You are saying that an incompetent boss is a free pass for anyone beneath them to be shit at their jobs as there can be no expectation of anything more. That's just bollocks. You never worked for a crap boss? I'm as angry as you are, bud... The owner provides the tools for the manager to do his job. Not only is he not doing that, but he's throwing in further obstacles that make the manager's job almost impossible. Therefore, it's irrelevant who the manager is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: Why are you always so argumentative? The post could quite easily be read as saying that a bad leader is unlikely to generate optimal performance, which is pretty much beyond debate. Why are you so argumentative? That isn’t what he said. He said “why should we expect”. Pretty clear to me. Unless you are being argumentative. If he meant something else and wants to word it better then that would be helpful. Oh... and it’s a forum. It exists pretty much solely for people to espouse their opinion and to engender debate and argument. Anyhow a clever bloke once said “Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence.” Edited November 5, 2018 by kowenicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, TheBigDog said: are you suggesting that Surridge is not actually injured? And that he is not playing for us or any other club because we cannot afford to stump up the loan fee? Doesn’t quite ring true for me. I do like the idea that we agreed a loan fee high enough for mega bucks Bournemouth to be bothered about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, JoeP said: I'm as angry as you are, bud... The owner provides the tools for the manager to do his job. Not only is he not doing that, but he's throwing in further obstacles that make the manager's job almost impossible. Therefore, it's irrelevant who the manager is. Then we need to find someone willing to try to overcome those obstacles, not use them as excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Why are you so argumentative? That isn’t what he said. He said “why should we expect”. Pretty clear to me. Unless you are being argumentative. If he meant something else and wants to word it better then that would be helpful. Oh... and it’s a forum. It exists pretty much solely for people to espouse their opinion and to engender debate and argument. Anyhow a clever bloke once said “Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence.” Debate and argument are not synonyms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonboy Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, JoeP said: Responsibility comes from the top down. If the person at the top can't do their job properly, why should we expect the next person down to? I guess JoeP because the next rung down etc are paid to do a job properly and have a responsibility to do so. The man at the top pays the wages (well sometimes!!) may be incompetent, and can pretty much do as he wants....because he's the man at the top! AL is what he is. We are stuck with him. Bunn we are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Then we need to find someone willing to try to overcome those obstacles, not use them as excuses. I agree to an extent, but I think we'd have to be extremely lucky to appoint a manager who can do a good job with the current pressures.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: Debate and argument are not synonyms. Correct. (Although various online resources disagree with us). Hooray, we agree. Edited November 5, 2018 by kowenicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, latics22 said: It’s a tough one, I wouldn’t like to be the one making the decision. Time is against us tho, if he was going to sack him he should have done it on Saturday. If we lose tomorrow and sack him, a new manager needs to be found, there is no assistant or anyone who can step up. Monday is extremely vital we win, so the options are we stick with bunn or sack him Tuesday night. Let’s face it he waited months to sack wellens after he signed Baxter, he could sack him at 7pm Monday He's the leader of the Latics and his name is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archiecat Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, oafcmetty said: He's the leader of the Latics and his name is.... Mickey Mouse MICKEY MOUSE mickey mouse der der der der Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 If we were replacing Bunn with Gary Bowyer or someone of his calibre, then I'd happily push the button now. And I'm never normally a fan of an early season dismissal. But if the opportunity presents itself to better what we have currently then we should absolutely take it. However, if it's just a reactionary dismissal without any decent succession plan like we've seemingly been doing for years now then I'd rather stick. In my opinion, going down that road wouldn't lead to a big promotion push. It would more likely lead in the opposite direction, so I'd rather keep Bunn and the small amount of stability the players have left. 13th-22nd may beckon but I don't think we'd go down with him in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, JoeP said: For any manager to succeed, the owner needs to: - pay the players and staff on time - provide the manager with a decent budget - not create a sacking culture - not interfere in team selection - not force #frenchlads on said manager - make the club attractive by having a "plan" ((C) lookersstandandy) Until this happens, who the manager is fairly irrelevant in my opinion... And until it does, and until any new man can sign a load of new players, you might aswell stick with the manager who knows the players and where they need to improve (I'm not as against Clarke being next up as some are for the same reason)... Especially if, as reported, they all like and want to play for him. I'm not proclaiming that he will - who can possibly know - but I do think there's a chance he can turn it round and get us up this season or next. I always remember driving home from Walsall after we'd got a result and the local radio phone in were, to a man, calling for Dean Smith's head. They stuck with him and look at him now.... Edited November 5, 2018 by HarryBosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 3 hours ago, doctor evil said: Tell me what you've seen in bunn to make you want to stick with him. I'll answer - we looked like we were going to get something going on the back of decent wins at Grimsby and Morecambe. Yes I know they're both shite but we've become used to losing to such shite over the years. There was a clear plan away from home to keep it very tight then finish teams off late on and it was working to a great extent. It can again. He seems to be being dealt a shit hand by Abdallah but doesn't seem to be playing the victim - I like that. I think that's partly down to his age/maturity and his love for the club, partly down to a desire not to fail/let Abdallah grind him down. He's getting a tune out of Miller who looked an awful signing. Surridge back in, who he signed, might well see us back on track quickly. He might find others of similar quality come January. Yes, it's all gone to shit of late but, we've already seen more from Bunn than we ever did from, eg Kelly, Robinson, Dunn.... He's still only two or three wins away from having us back in with a chance of something again. That said, I think he needs them quickly to stop AL pulling the trigger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Dave_Og said: Why are you always so argumentative? The post could quite easily be read as saying that a bad leader is unlikely to generate optimal performance, which is pretty much beyond debate. Why not just read it as it reads rather than trying to make it mean something different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, deyres42 said: Then we need to find someone willing to try to overcome those obstacles, not use them as excuses. Frankie hasn't, has he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor evil Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: I'll answer - we looked like we were going to get something going on the back of decent wins at Grimsby and Morecambe. Yes I know they're both shite but we've become used to losing to such shite over the years. There was a clear plan away from home to keep it very tight then finish teams off late on and it was working to a great extent. It can again. He seems to be being dealt a shit hand by Abdallah but doesn't seem to be playing the victim - I like that. I think that's partly down to his age/maturity and his love for the club, partly down to a desire not to fail/let Abdallah grind him down. He's getting a tune out of Miller who looked an awful signing. Surridge back in, who he signed, might well see us back on track quickly. He might find others of similar quality come January. Yes, it's all gone to shit of late but, we've already seen more from Bunn than we ever did from, eg Kelly, Robinson, Dunn.... He's still only two or three wins away from having us back in with a chance of something again. That said, I think he needs them quickly to stop AL pulling the trigger... Playing the way we do away from home would be fine in league 1 where there's quite a few teams that can hurt you. But we should be looking to get on the front foot (home & away) in this division. This squad is absolutely capable of finishing top 5. With bunn in charge, I just can't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, doctor evil said: Playing the way we do away from home would be fine in league 1 where there's quite a few teams that can hurt you. But we should be looking to get on the front foot (home & away) in this division. This squad is absolutely capable of finishing top 5. With bunn in charge, I just can't see it. I'm not saying I'd put money on it but I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility. I think we have been getting on the front foot we're just massively lacking quality, consistently and rub of the green. That can come and come quickly if things suddenly click.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 56 minutes ago, nzlatic said: If we were replacing Bunn with Gary Bowyer or someone of his calibre, then I'd happily push the button now. And I'm never normally a fan of an early season dismissal. But if the opportunity presents itself to better what we have currently then we should absolutely take it. However, if it's just a reactionary dismissal without any decent succession plan like we've seemingly been doing for years now then I'd rather stick. In my opinion, going down that road wouldn't lead to a big promotion push. It would more likely lead in the opposite direction, so I'd rather keep Bunn and the small amount of stability the players have left. 13th-22nd may beckon but I don't think we'd go down with him in charge. I think this is where the majority are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 21 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: Why not just read it as it reads rather than trying to make it mean something different? Life is nuanced. Always room for thought and interpretation. I prefer that approach rather than just being on the front foot for a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleetwood Blue Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Id like to think with Surridge back soon and hopefully the return of Fane to add bite in the middle we will see a turn in fortunes.. The FA cup game is massive to Bunn’s job i feel due to the pressure of the funds needed to be generated from a half decent run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor evil Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, HarryBosch said: I'm not saying I'd put money on it but I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility. I think we have been getting on the front foot we're just massively lacking quality, consistently and rub of the green. That can come and come quickly if things suddenly click.. Maybe. The way we play just doesn't give me any confidence. The fact Iverson always looks to go short is fine, good even, but it always ends up with the cbs launching it forward. When we have it down the wing and put the cross in, there's hardly ever more than one man in the box. Add to that the fact he'll be stood in the middle needing the perfect cross to score. Almost all our crosses go to the front post but there's never a man there. No one making that run from midfield. There's so much more and I know you can make points like this with every manager good or bad. But the sheer number of these issues worries me. As does his inability to change our approach. Take the Carlisle match. If you asked every bugger on here what gerrards biggest weakness was, they'd say he's a fat sod and he can't run. Yet we persisted with hoofballing it to cog and surridge. The one time we scored was a through ball to surridge, out paced gerrard and scored. We never tried it again. If you can chalk this down to confidence or that he's doing the best in the circumstances then fair enough. But for me, under bunn, we're just too poor, we're simply not good enough to get anywhere near the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, HarryBosch said: I'll answer - we looked like we were going to get something going on the back of decent wins at Grimsby and Morecambe. Yes I know they're both shite but we've become used to losing to such shite over the years. There was a clear plan away from home to keep it very tight then finish teams off late on and it was working to a great extent. It can again. He seems to be being dealt a shit hand by Abdallah but doesn't seem to be playing the victim - I like that. I think that's partly down to his age/maturity and his love for the club, partly down to a desire not to fail/let Abdallah grind him down. He's getting a tune out of Miller who looked an awful signing. Surridge back in, who he signed, might well see us back on track quickly. He might find others of similar quality come January. Yes, it's all gone to shit of late but, we've already seen more from Bunn than we ever did from, eg Kelly, Robinson, Dunn.... He's still only two or three wins away from having us back in with a chance of something again. That said, I think he needs them quickly to stop AL pulling the trigger... Filing this alongside your post from 2015. It'll be dragged out on Twitter over the next few years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.